The Death of the SWC and ...

XOVER

500+ Posts
... What it means with respect to today's struggle in the Big 12.
That is the substance of a re-titled 1995 article written Ivan Maisel about the demise of the SWC. Athlon is reprinting the article because Athlon believes the "... piece is worth revisiting as history seems to be repeating itself."

Consider this quote from Maisel's ancient article about the breakup of the SWC:
In reply to:


 
Interesting take. I agree and why I am glad we are rid of Beebe. He had no vision and was an albatross of a commissioner.
But also more to your point, I hope a all of the members are behind aggressive expansion and pilfering marque teams from other leagues.
Of all the possible moves we can make, Pac 16, BIG, independent, etc, nothing seems to offer more for the fans than keeping this conference together but adding some stiff competition. Not for the weak of heart but even the Iowa States have a lot to gain, even if the pond gets bigger, from tougher competition.
Regarding private schools though: If we could add BYU or ND it would not hurt us. I don't think TCU hurt us either.
 
Detective Shilala: Absolutely agree with respect to Notre Dame. The Domers are one of the quality "10" teams that are out there.

BYU would be intriguing to me except that BYU insists on forfeiting any game in any sport that requires a game to be played on Sunday, including National Championship games. BYU forfeited in a lesser sport's National Championship game as recently as 2010. I personally can't see any major sports league agreeing to give a school the right to forfeit a game due to it being played on a Sunday.

TCU? Well, I disagree. I will pass on TCU without further comment.
 
I think this thread is spot on. There's an old business axiom, expand or die. The Big XII needs to act like the big business it is, and expand, no matter what happens to somebody else's conference.

I was no fan of the Big XII the way it was originally constituted. It took in the midlands area, but the north division became dead weight on the national stage, and it was left to UT and OU to carry the conference in football more than they should have had to. The original Big XII was in some very real ways no more viable than the old SWC after Arkansas pulled out.

Those of us old enough to remember the SWC, and the original Big XII, have to get rid of the idea of a conference with a regional feel. If the Big XII is going to survive long term, it NEEDS to go to 14 teams at least. Clemson and Florida State can be had if pursued right, BYU and Louisville would kill to get in the Big XII and both bring some substance to the table. Notre Dame isn't off the table, if the Big XII has intelligent and aggressive leadership, although getting the Irish to join will not be a quick nor easy process.

I never liked the old Big XII, and I strongly supported the Horns moving out west to the PAC. I'm not convinced UT did the right thing yet by staying with the Big XII, but I will concede that I now think UT's best option is to be an integral member of a STRONG Big XII.

I couldn't agree more that this next commissioner hire for the Big XII is crucial. There's a relatively small window for the conference to bring in someone with a vision, with media experience, with the savvy and will to deal with ALL of the Big XII schools, not just UT and OU, and get ALL of the schools to buy into a unified, satisfied, and most of all, PEACEFUL Big XII. Oliver Luck may be the man for the job. Dick Ebersole may be. The new commissioner doesn't necessarily have to have athletic department experience, but he's gonna have to have everything mentioned above, plus the drive to get things done within the small window mentioned.

Short term, the competition is the ACC, and it will be war to bring Clemson and Florida State aboard. The real battle though will be with the SEC. If the Big XII isn't willing to expand, including into SEC territory, and isn't willing to go nose to nose with the SEC, the Big XII won't survive. The Big XII has a lot to offer network tv and cable, a more entertaining brand of football, stronger overall basketball, solid baseball, but the Big XII HAS TO be perceived as a national brand, not just a regional one. The conference's next commissioner hire is a crucial one...that cannot be emphasized enough. Everyone in this conference is going to have to be all in with whoever's chosen as the new commissioner. That's the only chance the Big XII survives.
 
I kinda like the smaller conferences with the regional rivalries.

West Virginia vs. Texas does not get me any more excited than playing Iowa State. Playing TCU excites me because I can easily go to another game every other year without driving the 8 hours.

I believe you lose the intimacy once you get over 12 teams. I like the Round Robin format, never liked the old format of the Big XII. With the Round Robin you get everybody every year, I like that!!!!! How long is it going to take Missouri or AM to develop substantial rivalries in a 14 team league?
 
I agree that if you are not growing you are shrinking, but the success of the BIG and SEC is in part the cohesiveness of the teams, in particular the close geographic nature of their complement of schools. The Big XII never had that and never had the rivalries. I though the answer would have been a coalition with either the Big East or the ACC. Round robin within each conference, seperate TV deals but join together for a CCG in football and of course set up a Challange or tornament for basketball. The Big XII is now left teams that are spread out, but not necessarily capturing big TV markets or alumni bases. IMO adding ND and BYU would probably be the best but least likely opportunity, FSU and clemson would be fine but also not likely. UCincy and Louisville - meh dosent seem worth the trouble
 
The thing with rivalries, they generally take years to heat up, so expecting West Virginia, or even TCU to instantly become a heated foe isn't practical.

Reference expansion, Florida State and Clemson to the Big XII can be done. They're football first schools in a basketball first conference that likely soon will have its' own survival issues. Louisville isn't a slam dunk, but they bring an improving football team, a traditionally strong basketball team, a sizable tv market, and a traveling partner for West Virginia. BYU has issues to address concerning playing on Sunday, but if they deal with that, they'd be a good fit for the Big XII. Notre Dame is, well...Notre Dame. Nobody knows what the Irish will do if pressed to join a conference, but no matter their record, they're still a national brand. The Big XII offers a good landing place for their non-football sports after the Big (L)east craters, and the Big XII offers them more tv autonomy than the B1G or ACC are willing to do.

I said it above...it's not easy, but traditionalists are going to have to get over the idea of a Big XII that feels and looks like a midlands regional conference. If the Big XII is gonna ultimately thrive and survive, it's going to be necessary to spread out like a warm breakfast through three time zones. Anything less and the Big XII becomes bait for the SEC, B1G, PAC, or possibly the ACC. I'm not crazy about a fourteen, or sixteen team conference, but it's either expand, or die. There's no door number three.
 
I like FSU and Miami alot more than I like Clemson. Miami brings a national audience, Clemson is a regional school.

I also think that Miami and
FSU, look at each other and know they need each other to battle Florida and the other schools in that state every year.
 
I could see Miami as a possibility IF the Big XII were ever to be thinking of going to sixteen teams. They're a national brand, but there's still the NCAA issues to be dealt with and you just don't know how hurt they'll be by that. They also aren't a good draw, even at their home games. Still, they're a team to consider.....
 
Recent scuttlebutt is that Clemson is seriously considering a jump to the Big 12 if the ACC can't gin up more than the $15M per year the ACC is currently looking at after the additions of Pitt and SU. Clemson's concern with the Big 12 is travel so Clemson really wants Florida State to come, too.

Florida State, which is running in the red, is warming up to the idea of jumping, even if FSU is not as strong on a jump as Clemson is, but FSU insists that Miami be invited as well. So now Miami is in the picture.

On a totally separate front, Texas is talking ernestly with Notre Dame about non-football sports. Texas has the idea that if ND affiliated for non-football, ND would eventually join for football, plus a non-football affiliation would block the ACC from designs on ND.

Then there's Plan B. If all else fails, there's Louisville and BYU to get to 12.

All efforts right now, however, are being expended on the ACC schools, while Texas is off pursuing ND. If the three ACC schools jump, that could also help with ND. There is a certain synergy between the two situations.

Can a TV network bring down a entire conference?

Unless ESPN ponies up a lot more money to the ACC due to the additions of Pitt and SU, then Florida State, Clemson and Miami are going to have to think very hard and carefully about their respective futures. Speculation is that in the Big 12 those three schools could command $25M to $30M per school once Tier 3 is factored in.

ESPN is also deeply invested in the Big 12 and the LHN. Which conference will ESPN favor in the end? A Texas-centric conference? Or a North Carolina-centric conference?

ESPN has a ton of leverage in this situation.
 
Any conference that includes UT, OU, West Virginia, TCU, Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Okie State, BYU, and potentially Notre Dame could hold its' own in football with the SEC or anybody. That conference would also be very attractive for tv contract purposes. It would be stout in the other sports as well, and geared to take the battle to the SEC if that conference was spoiling for a fight.
 
If, somehow, Texas persuaded ND to affiliate (or better yet, join), BYU might fall off the map. ND is supposed to want at least one northeastern school to bolster its recruiting grounds. ND recruits nationally for football, but it recruits the northeast corridor for other sports.
There are lots of nice northeastern schools that could become part of the equation, and some have supposed to have already shown some incipient interest, such as Maryland (AAU), Boston College, and Rutgers (AAU). Pitt (AAU) could be a possibility as well if the three ACC football schools jump.

Thus might BYU cut themselves out of the picture entirely. BYU has some TV demands that are creating a choke point, plus BYU insists on being able to forfeit all games, due to religious considerations, that are scheduled for Sunday play that cannot be rescheduled. While I would love a Rocky Mountain destination in Big 12 play, BYU appears to be intransigent about those two issues, thus precluding them from already joining the Big 12. We'll see if the league can get by those knotty issues with BYU, or, indeed, if the Big 12 even cares to try.

The SEC? Absolutely, coolhorn
. If the Big 12 is able to join Florida State, Clemson, and Miami, I think the Big 12 would be the equal of, or certainly close to, the SEC. Add in ND as well, and you're right there with the SEC. That gets you to 14.

Now you approach two from Georgia Tech, Maryland, Pitt, Boston College, Rutgers, or Louisville. VPI, Virginia, or any North Carolina school aren't likely, even if the ACC disintegrates, but who knows if the ACC does disintegrate?

The interesting thing is that none of the TV contracts seem to have finalized. Perhaps that's just a normal function of negotiations, or perhaps things have slowed down due to some schools, in the background, contemplating their options? It all ought to shake out one way or the other between March Madness and the end of June.

If the Big 12 does join Florida State, Miami, and Clemson -- even without Notre Dame -- then Texas will be a member of one helluva college sports conference. Hope it happens.
 
Expansion is driven by the number of TV sets, how well a team travels, etc. Who out there has the pedigree? I still think OU and Texas should play as football independents and in the Big 12 in all other sports. This league is on life support right now. Way too many 50,000 seat stadiums with fans disguised as empty seats. Kids today weren't even born when Tom Osborne made Miami a glam program for the 1980s and 90s. (Next time kick the extra point Tom).
 
My wishlist if the Big XII ultimately goes to sixteen teams:

Florida State
Miami
Clemson
Notre Dame
Louisville or Pitt
Maryland or Georgia Tech

Add six of those to what's in the conference right now and you've got a football conference that can hold its' own with the SEC or anybody, a very solid basketball league, and a top notch baseball conference. You've also got a really attractive conference when it comes time to renegotiate the tv contracts.
 
I wouldnt mind adding Fla. St and Clemson. I know Ala and Lsu are at the top of their games right now, but I really dont think the Big12 is that far behind them right now. It will really help once we get our act together.
 
The Big XII, at minumum, will likely go to fourteen teams. The first two adds, if they can be pulled off, will be Florida State and Clemson. If the conference goes for four at the next expansion, add Louisville and Miami to the mix.
 
Louisiville does nothing for me.

I like 10 teams, seems more personal than 12 or 14 teams.

If we are going to add, the top four teams for consideration should be:

ND
BYU
Florida State
Miami-I understand they don't draw well at home, but they do draw a TV audience. I understand they have some NCAA issues to work out, never a better time to invite someone then when they are down.

That would be 14 teams, are they realistic, not all of them.

Secondarily, I like:

Georgia Tech, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina and North Carolina State. I could see a Maryland or Boston College as well. I could see PItt.

I don't like Louisville or Clemson, adds nothing other than a regional foe for West Virginia.
 
I think a lot of people aren't incredibly excited by Louisville or Clemson.

The thing is, Clemson is probably the most likely to be the first to leave the ACC for the Big 12, thus opening the floodgates for other schools to leave.

There are positives about Clemson. For example, they are the long-time attendance leaders in the ACC, drawing 78,234 per game in 2010. CU generally fields a decent football team, and their fanbase is football crazy. There are a lot of Clemson fans out east, and they would undoubtedly be strong in cross-marketing, which enriches us all.

At any rate, if there's any hope of cracking open the ACC, Clemson is probably the key. And if it takes Clemson to get Florida State, Miami, and/or Georgia Tech, I'm thinking it is well worth it.

Three or four of those schools would cut a swath across the SEC that would be great for the Big 12, planting the flag securely in SEC country, especially in talent-laden Florida.
 
The X man has nailed this. Clemson is the key, the first card that has to fall, in attracting the ACC's football first schools to the Big 12. The three or four named aren't all that excited about being in a basketball-first conference where the real power resides along Tobacco Road. It's like the old school dances, where everybody's waiting on the first couple to get out and hit the floor. IF Clemson jumps first, Florida State and Miami, at the least, will join them, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Georgia Tech make the jump as well. That would be four very good additions to the Big 12. I'm also pretty sure the SEC would NOT like the Big 12 to have that much presence in their own back yard, but after them taking agricultural, what's gravy for the goose is gravy for the gander.
 

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