The Bush legacy

F

Fried JJ Pickles

1,000+ Posts
His proposed federal budget exceeds $3,000,000,000,000 for the first time in history. Before Bush, the budget had never even seen $2 trillion.

Bush's last budget is 58% higher than the budget he inherited.

Bush inherited a budget surplus. He's leaving a $407,000,000,000 deficit.

Despite this, he somehow claims that he cut taxes.

It's like a 19 year old kid who discovers he can lower his expenses and get cool new stuff by charging up a credit card.
 
too early to tell, but even if the Iraq war turns to roses, the frontrunners (IMO) are:

1. Reckless spending
2. Lost the moral high ground with torture scandals

Not pretty.
 
Tropheus-

With all due respect- ********

History is not going to judge his, or any other presidency, on the basis of spending appropriations bills. Major Geopolitical events and how we respond to them are how history judges presidents, not deficits or surplusses. The only way the economy even rates a mention is if it is spectacularly good or spectacularly bad.

Considering the government has never taken in a single red cent higher then they've spent in my lifetime I seriously doubt that this is his legacy- of budget deficits

(I could be wrong but I think the Clinton surplusses were projected and on paper surpluses- we never actually saw more revenue then expenses- if I'm wrong I'd love to see a link to this- as I've heard both many times regarding surplusses of the late 90's).

Also- the only reason the budget came even close to balancing is b/c the republican's in congress made it- Clinton fought tooth and nail against any and all spending cuts- remember- the government got shut down over this. Republican's in Congress then spent like drunken sailors on shore leave with a republican president- a good argument for gridlock.
 
As great as a President Regan was, its a knock on him too. The facts show President Bush signed into law the largest increase in entitlement spending since LBJ. That's a fact. His budgets are out of control and he did not (after 9/11) make fiscal restraint a priority during the use of his podium time. Instead, he and Cheney focused on increaseing the monarchial power of the Executive. That's where it stands today. History may add/subtract based on the long term outcome of the fight against terrorism and the Iraq war, but currently, the two things that stand out, or should standout as complete are his departure from traditional Republican fiscal ideals while his party had a complete monopoly on Congress and torture.

If you want to blame the Republican Congress for spending, then Bush's legacy will include his failure to lead his own party while in office. Either way, not pretty.
 
JJ- got his way in the sense that he won the battle of public opinon- but it also showed that the Congress was going to make him toe the line on spending priorities. they were more anti-spending then Clinton- which is why I said they deserve credit for making that an issue- Newt Gingrich especially.

Trop- I'm not saying it will not get mention- but you said even if Iraq goes to roses this will be number 1 in his legacy- this is what I'm calling ********. When Bush's presidential Obituary is written by history Iraq will be the above the fold issue- budget concerns at best will be in the 3rd or 4th paragraph.

I'm not saying I like the budget or all the spending- I really don't. What I am saying is that no way that is his #1 legacy-either way.

Go back on legacy's (and in some cases it's too early- I acknowlege) of past presidents:

Clinton- impeachment/ lewinsky
Bush 1- fall of berlin wall, First Gulf War
Reagan- Cold War- Communism- eventual fall
Carter- Tie maybe- Stagflation and Hostage Crisis
Nixon/Ford- Watergate
LBJ- Vietnam- civil rights
Kennedy- Assasination
Eisenhower- Maybe expansion of US propsperity following the war- maybe Korea
Truman- A bomb
FDR- WWII.

That is every president back to WWII. The legacy of maybe 1 (carter) or maybe 2 (Eisenhower) has anything to do with the economy. Bush's legacy ain't the economy, I promise.
 
Wartime president's are judged by their wars. It is all going to come down to Iraq.

We've lost about a thousand more citizens to Iraq than we lost on 9/11, so I'm not sure if historians are going to defend Bush with "2337 days and counting". As for the Iraqi's the very fact that it could be argued they were safer under Hussien is fairly damning. For the Iraq war to be used as a positive legacy for Bush, it is going to have to result in wider reforms to the region. Simply getting installing a democracy is not going to be enough. Particularly since it looks like the government we are installing isn't going to be very pro-america.
 
FDR's legacy is not exclusively WWII, its the New Deal as well. LBJ's includes the Great Society. Regan's also includes tax policy.

Reckless spending isn't the economy its either a failure to follow a fundamental tenet of the Republican Party or its a failure to lead his own Party. The book on Iraq and the fight against terrorism won't be closed for quite some time but will certainly be part of his legacy. Bush II wrote the first chapter, more to come. Torture is all about foreign policy.
 
mia-

I agree completely with how history will judge Bush. He's an unqualified success with his foreign policy vision if Iraq becomes a foothold to greater reforms in the middle east.

It's probably a mistake if that doesn't happen- and will be viewed as another in a long line of US bungling in the Middle East and a missed oppurtunity.

2500 lost troops (or whatever we are at right now) is nothing in the grand scheme of wars. Not to sound too cavalier but that's not going to move the needle historically as signiificant.
 
Wow- I didn't realize we'd moved from 2500 to 3500- that really sucks. My point still stands that it isn't enough- in a historical context, to move the needle one way or another- what will be important is what becomes of Iraq- not number of casualties (I think we are in agreement there).

Trop- understood your last point- sorry I misunderstood you earlier. I agree- those two things are more or less cemented as negative. The war in iraq/war on terror is going to get top billing and the dust won't settle for 30 years at least.

About 6 months ago I made a post with just such a point (you can't judge bush's legacy yet) and got soundly ripped for it- that's ok though- those poeple were all wrong- and you and I are right ;-)
about how long it will take to get a handle on Iraq
 
2008 estimated GDP = $14 trillion :: $3 trillion budget = 21%
2000 GDP = $10 trillion :: $2 trillion budget = 20%

now, i would prefer that some of the spending during the bush administration had not occurred, but the hair pulling on this thread seems to be based on some poor analysis.

hook'em
 
We are in agreement, my point was simply "It's made us safer" was/is not a defensable position historically.
 
BT- you just posted what I've always believed RE lack of a surplus under Clinton. Do you have an acutal link or source on that? I'm curious b/c I'd love to bookmark it if you do in response to the earlier point about inheriting the surplus
 
wulaw- first off Clinton did produce a budget surplus. GWB spent it via tax rebates before ever submitting hisown budget.... It was a wise political move by Bush as it showsthat even attorneys don't understandwhy the Clinton Budget Surplus never made it into the debt repayment is was supposed to..... Georgie spent it!

Bush's legacy is going to be a sad one. Perhpas the best thing for Bush was that the Whitehouse destroyed it's emails from the period Bush's first 2 years in office... think 9/11 and Yellow cake uranium speeches, and the successful Scooter Libby obstruction of justice.

Bush will ultimately be remembered as a President who was paranoid and more secretive than any other since Nixon and a fellow who made piss poor decisions on the fiscal and miltary sides of the equation. Thinking that people "won't remember" Bush's deficits should be rephrased to "Republican's won't remember." Hell GOP folks throw out Reagan's name as if he didn't borrow and spend like a drunken sailor (so perhaps for the GOP you are right WuLaw.)

Bush won't get credit for Iraq if it does run out well, that will go to another Administration, who actually gets POLITICAL progress. Bush will be treated fairly by history... but the facts will show that the Bush Presidency will move his name into the debate of "worst US Presidents" for future history classes.
 
BC- interesting take- I don't think that freeing a region from the cespool they are in- even if costly to our treasury, should be ever viewed as a negative, if that's the way it goes- it will be interesting to see what happens there as it all shakes out- I hope and pray to the good.

As to Curl's point he is simply putting the deficit into perspective by making it a percentage- a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Put another way- on a micro level- who is more screwed- me if I owe 25k on my credit cards and make 250k, or the guy that owes 10k on his credit card and makes 50k. He's got way less debt but I'm way better off in my ability to repay it. That often times gets forgotten, and the latest president will always be the one with the biggest budget/ most spending, just the name of the game as our country countinues to grow. I don't like it though, but that's how it is and I'm betting always will continue to be.
 
GWB never cut TAXES... He cut the TAX RATE. I can't believe it when people try to talk about this. The numbers you need to look at are TAX REVENUE v. ACTUAL EXPENDITURES.
I am not trying to make any statement about how history will view Bush. I hope we don't view any president with such gross inaccuracies.
 
Battleship... Yes Bush spent the budget surplus... every last dime of it. Indeed he is probably the only Preisdent in history to spend the surplus he inherited so it could never be booked.

As I said a sound policial strategy for the GOP that allows the foolish to say "clinton..bush.,.. they're all the same. When the reality is the Republican Presidents have amaseed the vast majority of our national debt with Budgets they signed into law.

Either way Bush will be viewed as a failure on what... every front except for tax cuts... that helped grow the debt?
 
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