Term Limits

Bronco

500+ Posts
I would like to hear some new opinions on term limits. I am a huge proponent of term limits and think that having them would solve a huge amount of our current problems, both financial and other.

I suggest 8 year terms for Senators and 6 year terms for Congress. Once elected to one of these positions, you can not be relected to either again but could run for President.

I would increase salaries to $350K/year for Senators and $275K/year for Congress. I would offer health benefits to 65 and pensions of $75K/year to 65.

There would be ZERO campaining by these elected officials for themselves which means no receiving of political contributions of any kind.

I think the benefits of this would be tremendous and include the following:

1) An overwhelmingly better pool of candidates running for office. There are a ton of very qualified, successful people who would never even consider running for office because of the low pay, constant campaining for re-election and general goofiness of the system. I honestly think that this one benefit alone could solve almost all of our financial problems. The biggest thing holding back progress is pressure for campain money and re-election worries.

2) With no chance for re-election, decisions would much more often be based on the good of the country. Every deal made now is tied to getting elected and raisng money.

3) Lobbyist influence reduced. There will always be a need for lobbyists and, in theory, they provide a very important service for the country. The elected officials can't possibly be proficient on every issue they face. Lobbyists provide that information. What is happening now is that lobbyists are really just conduits to election money and the actual issue is secondary. Of course there might be some out there that will angle for jobs after their terms are over. This can never be avoided. However, if the lobbyists promise a job to one guy, he still has to convince a majority to go his way. And, with this sytem I have proposed, he can not influence them with money. He can only influence on the merits of the bill.

4) Greater change. I love when people say we already have term limits and they are called elections. First, especially with congress, they are in campain and re-election mode all the time. They never get out of it. Is that really what we want our elected officials to be focusing on? Of course not. Second, the deck is satcked so heavily in favor of the incumbents that a sitting politician has to be beyond incompetent and beyond an embarassment to get voted out. It happens some (like the last election cycle) but not nearly enough.

5) An end to "cronyism" and the "I'll scratch yours if you scratch mine" mentality. As mentioned above, so many bad deals are out there simply because all the politicians work together to keep their pet projects. They do this because they get funding from their pet projects. if they are no longer getting any funding, there is no reason to vote for bills that have no betterment to the country.

Challenges I have heard to term limits include:

1) Staffers would run everything. I reject this completely. Staffers carry out the wishes of the officials. They do what they are told. They might be great at navigating the system (which is another reason FOR limits) but they accomplish what the elected official wants. You think any successful, accomplished, smart person would allow their staffers to make decisions on important matters? Of course not. It happens now because all the official cares about is getting re-elected.
2) We have term limits with elections. Already addressed above. The system is rigged too much.
3) If ny guy is really good why should he have to leave? We term the president for a reason too. If your guy gets 8 years and is doing a great job, then elect the guy who best matches the qualities and opinions of the current guy at election time. Make them run on a platform that matches the things you like.
4) No control over their work if they don't have to be re-elected. Having a better pool of candidates would virtually eliminate this worry. If a prominent Texan was elected, it is doubtful he would start doing things to hurt Texas. You are going to get honest, straightforward people elected and we will have to put our trust in them. Certainly some shaky characters would slip through the cracks, but they are only 1 of many. They can't really do anything by themselves and the people will be smarter in who they pick next time.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. I am interested in haveing a discussion with anyone that has contrary opinions.
 
Agree with just about everything here with the exception of the length of the terms. They're a bit too long in my opinion. I'm also a little uneasy with the pay and pensions but I can understand the reasoning.
 
Being in the Senate or House for 20 or 30 years is ridiculous.

Representatives and Senators should have varying terms, not sure what they should be. Senators should be elected by the state houses out of the pool of House of Representatives or from the state houses in cases of less than 2 reps.
 
I love your argument and agree with most of your positions, but the obvious problem is that your proposal would have to be approved by {drum roll) the lifers you want to remove.

We can't get them to be on our healthcare or social security, there's no way they would ever vote to retire themselves prematurely. It would be wonderful if it were possible though.
 
My only problem with congressional term limits is finding able candidates to replace them. That's 500+ people every few years. Is the pool that deep? Don't know.
 
Term limits won't do anything to fix the problems.

There are downsides, as well. Losing competence and expertise that accrue with tenure. Why do away with that? You're not going to fix your issues with term limits, only replacing the person/politician with the party.

Personally, I find term limits to be a very poorly thought out solution. If you don't want the guy in office then don't vote for him.
 
I lean against term limits, but I'm not militant about it. Here's my rationale.

First, I'm very reluctant to weaken the public's influence on whom they elect to public office. Rarely does that help any ethical problem.

Second, with term limits the lobby gains influence but regarding information and expertise rather than money. Many members become experts on specific issues that can't be gained any way except through experience.

For example, I worked for a state legislator who became an expert on election law issues. He wasn't an election law attorney. He was an insurance broker, but he spent 20 years studying election issues as a legislator. Nobody could BS him, not even an election law attorney. That would go away with term limits. On truly inside and nuanced issues, the lobby would pretty much be completely in charge.

The staffer element is overblown by some term limits opponents, but I don't think it's irrelevant. A staffer generally serves the member, but the member can't be everywhere all at once. As a former staffer, I can tell you that they can greatly influence what information the member receives, whom they meet with, etc.

Third, I question how effective term limits would be in fixing the system. I don't think serving in office for a long time makes someone corrupt. It's easy for people to say that, but if it was true, then all long serving political figures would be crooks, and most of them aren't. What a long tenure does is give an already corrupt politician the seniority and power to exercise his corruption. It's the lack of integrity that makes the politician corrupt.

Well, if you impose term limits, you're still going to have leadership positions like the Speaker, majority leader, and committee chairmen. If a crook gets into those positions, he can still screw over the public.

In addition, the incentive to cheat would still be big. Cushy "jobs" after a short term in Congress would be just as big of a deal as they are now, maybe even bigger.

Fourth, though there are certainly corrupting influences associated with raising money, the incentive to get reelected also makes elected officials more responsive to the public than they would otherwise be. If you can't sit for reelection, then why would you care what your constituents think? Why not just use the office to promote your self-interests?

Fifth, have term limits worked where it has been tried? We term limit the President, but has that necessarily been a good thing? We've had three presidents get impeached or be forced to resign. Two were in the term limits era. Not a particularly good record.

And have we lost anything? Would a third Eisenhower term have been a bad thing? Probably not. Reagan might have been too old to run again, but I wouldn't have minded seeing him try.

As for the argument that elections serve the purpose of term limits, that's totally unpersuasive for House members because of gerrymandering. It has more merit for statewide races like Senate or the few at-large House districts.

I do like increasing the pay. It's an unpopular idea (for obvious reasons), but it would attract better people into politics. Considering that a member has to have two residences, I think the pay sucks.

Increasing the terms for House members is also a good idea. I may go to 4 instead of 6 though.
 
This guy served in the Senate for over 50 years. Opposed civil rights while fathering a child with his African American maid when she was 16. No one combines incumbent advantage, combined with poor service better than Strom Thurmond.
1_123125_123054_2078764_2085086_030701_stromthurmond.jpg



This guy- Ted Stevens served for 42 years. Was crooked and guilty of accepting bribes. His age, and length in the Senate put him in the position to explain to the American public that the internet is a series of tubes that he knew best how to regulate.

tedstevens.jpg



While being crooked has nothing to do with term limits, I suggest that the longer one serves the more these people are served dishes of temptation to commit crimes. Their age and lack of real world experience also put them at a severe disadvantage to serve the public.
 
Good points all. Like Rex mentioned, it seems everyone is missing one of the biggest positives to this, which is a broader and vastly improved pool of candidates willing to run. I am not saying, at all, that all candidates are bad. Some are very honest, work hard etc but they simply lack any depth of experience to handle the positions they are in effectively. Simply because a guy graduated from college and served in the military and is religious, does not, in any way, make him a good candidiate. Might make him electable and he probably looks good compared to the people he is running against, but would like a peasant compared to better quality candidiates with resumes of successes and accomplishments.

Anyway- lots of good responses and I will adress Deez's as he seems to incorporate a lot of them in one post:
In reply to:


 
"While being crooked has nothing to do with term limits, I suggest that the longer one serves the more these people are served dishes of temptation to commit crimes. Their age and lack of real world experience also put them at a severe disadvantage to serve the public." <<This! These old codgers get complacent too. If there's no apparent competition to replace you, what's the incentive to make things happen when you are comfortable in your insulated bubble with all the present perks inherent in the current system.
 

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