Spring Football The Horns' offensive philosophy

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kchorn

250+ Posts
As the Horns head for Spring Practice, the most interesting questions on the agenda for the Texas football program would appear to relate to our offensive philosophy.

With the Horns' defense under the direction of Will Muschamp, there seems to be little doubt (if any) that Texas will handle that side of the line of scrimmage effectively this Fall ... assuming, in part, that some key defensive players overcome injury problems between now and the Horns' 2008 season opener on August 30 with Florida Atlantic.

On the other hand, offensively the Horns (during the coaching tenure of Greg Davis) often have appeared to be "directionless". Rather than arguing that point, the following list is intended simply to state for the record the apparently unresolved issues related to the Horns' offensive philosophy (going into our 2008 Spring Football practice sessions):

(1) Do the Horns wish to field a "balanced" offense in the 2008 football season? [Note: the term "balanced offense" is intended, per clarifications offered by Mack Brown in his press conferences, to indicate an offense which can both run and pass the football effectively, as necessary, regardless of the quality of our opponent.]

(2) Do the Horns wish to utilize a QB who can run, as well as pass, the football effectively? [Note: This was a stated objective for Texas, per Mack, during the Vince era -- when the indication was made that in the future the Horns would recruit only QBs with sufficient mobility to run the football effectively. Mack's point was that with only "one" RB (in the pro-style offense), the ability of the Horns' QB to run the football effectively and provide substantive misdirection when Texas faces critical rushing situations could be a decisive factor in the effectiveness of our running game vs. quality opponents.]

(3) Is Colt McCoy a "dual-threat" QB who can run with the football effectively (on designed running plays) vs. the Horns' quality opponents? If so, why has Colt often not done so in the past two football seasons? What change, if any, is planned in our offensive philosophy this year in terms of Colt McCoy running the football?

(4) It is documented that the Horns' basic pro-style offensive philosophy (under Mack & Greg) -- with a "passing QB" who does not run the football effectively on designed plays vs. quality opponents -- has not worked to win a Conference title or take the Horns to a BCS-level postseason game. In fact, the Mack & Greg basic offensive philosophy with a "passing QB" never -- in their entire intercollegiate coaching careers -- has worked to produce a Conference title or a football team that could reach the BCS-level of postseason competition -- regardless of the team's defense (e.g., the 2001 Horns were No. 1 nationally on defense, and the Texas defense frequently has been highly-ranked nationally during Mack's tenure here), RBs (e.g., Ricky Williams, Hodges Mitchell, Cedric Benson and Jamaal Charles), offensive linemen (e.g., Jay Humphrey, Ben Adams, Octavious Bishop, Roger Roesler, Mike Williams, Antwan Kirk-Hughes, Derrick Dockery, Robbie Doane, Tillman Holloway, Jonathan Scott, Will Allen, Kasey Studdard, Lyle Sendlein, Justin Blalock, Cedric Dockery, Adam Ulatoski, Dallas Griffin and Tony Hills), receivers (Derek Lewis, Wane McGarity, Kwame Cavil, Ryan Nunez, Roy Williams, Bo Scaife, B. J. Johnson, Sloan Thomas, Tony Jeffery, Billy Pittman, David Thomas, Ramonce Taylor, Jordan Shipley, Nate Jones, Jermichael Finley, Quan Cosby and Limas Sweed), or the "passing QB" (Major Applewhite, Chris Simms, Chance Mock and Colt McCoy).

So, what will be changed (during Spring Practice) in our offensive philosophy this year to enable Texas (for the first time ever under Mack & Greg) to win a Conference title and participate in BCS-level postseason competition with a "passing QB" -- if he does not run the football effectively on designed plays vs. quality opponents in title games?

(5) In terms of "effectiveness" in quarterbacking the Horns' first-team offense, John Chiles has been given the opportunity (as a QB) to participate in two full offensive possessions -- both in the 2007 Holiday Bowl -- and Chiles (as a true freshman) responded by leading the Horns' first-team offense to two TDs in those two full offensive possessions. The two TD drives (with John Chiles at QB) averaged 15 yards-per-play and resulted in 14 points being scored by the Texas offense in 1 minute and 37 seconds of playing time vs. a nationally-ranked opponent. There were no turnovers on either of those touchdown drives.

In contrast, Colt McCoy encountered turnover problems throughout the Horns' 2007 football season, and our running game evaporated in the Horns' three losses this past season (to Kansas State, Oklahoma and A&M), but we are being told that "we know what we have" with Colt McCoy (who never has led Texas to a Conference title or a BCS-level postseason game, but apparently is "secure" as the Horns' starting QB for the next two years -- regardless of the results on the football field) ... while, in stark contrast, we are being told that John Chiles "needs to show improvement" just to maintain his status as our "backup" QB, or we will move Chiles (arguably the best athlete on the Horns' offense) to another playing position where he would be fortunate if he touches the football five times a game.

What is the basis for the apparent "double standard" in evaluating John Chiles' ability to QB the Horns first-team offense effectively, as compared to evaluating Colt McCoy's ability to QB the Horns' first-team offense effectively?

It will be interesting to hear how those questions regarding the Horns' "offensive philosophy" (under Mack & Greg, and now Major Applewhite, a former "passing QB" for the Horns who encountered the same problems as Chris Simms, Chance Mock and Colt McCoy with the same offensive philosophy at Texas) are resolved -- one way or the other -- in the Horns' 2008 Spring Football practice sessions.

Then we'll see what happens this Fall.

Hook 'em.
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Throughout the post, you many times infer this argument: Mack Brown offenses with passing quarterbacks have never won a conference championship, therefore we should play a quarterback with strong running ability.
First, I hope we can avoid conference championships as a litmus test for one particular area. This greatly over-simplifies the problem, and I hope that we are sophisticated enough to discuss all the details involved.
Second, while our primarily-passing quarterbacks of the last 10 years struggled at times, they also thrived at times and carried our team. You could also say that our running/passing QB struggled at times. Even with the great VY, we've succeeded and failed as a team.

I don't think of Colt as a "dual threat" QB, but he has more than scrambling ability. Chiles performed well in his few appearances as a change up. IMO, if he was the man, defenses would adjust to his abilities, and our offense wouldn't be any better off. That is, unless he or Harris is farther along in the passing game than I think they are.
I'm in the camp that we should play Chiles or Harris more and see what happens. This is definitely appealing as a spectator, since they are fun to watch.
 
Read most of it. And the one thing I saw is you keep referring to a pro style offense. Our offense has more or less drifted away from a pro-style offense since VY came through. We no longer run the deep outs and under center that are staples of that type of offense. We no run more slip screens, Zone Reads and QB draws. Our offense has changed into a more or less balanced spread attack with some spread option and some traditional spread. We rely on short passes and mis-direction to make our offense work.

Another thing is I would not consider Colt a "passing QB". You compared him to Major, and Chance but I think he is a much more effective runner. As the year went on Colt began to grasp the offense much more affectively and began to receive more designed running plays and I think this has a lot to do with Jamaal's late season explosion.

I expect the offense to be very explosive next year and Colt will cut down on the turnovers. He will have much more time to throw with the improvements on the OLine and will continue to run well and help create space for the RBs to pick up yards. He will have a very good receiving corps and I expect he will get another big play threat out of either, Dan Buckner, Malcolm Williams, or D.J. Grant.

Expect Chiles to play RB, WR, and QB. I think we see a lot more of him in a Ramonce Taylor type role but still taking some snaps at QB and give Colt some breaks. The improvement along the OLine is the key to this offense and we should see a very good year from the whole O.
 
I appreciate the thoughts and off-season post. I doubt much is gonna change. Mac and GD seem content to stick with the offense that won them the NC.
1, Colt has demonstrated that he can be a serviceable runner.
2. I expect Vondrell to fill in JC's shoes.
3. We lost Sweed and Nate, but I expect Ship and Quan will shoulder the load and look for some of the new guys to get the rest of the minute.
4. JMike will be tough to replace, but Irby has great potential.
5. Our O-line was really shaping up by the end of the season. I expect they'll be better next year - resulting in less INTs and sacks for Colt.

The real intriguing questions is what will happen with Chiles. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we actually see more packages that use he and Colt together. Not just subbing in for Colt every 3rd series and/or sending him in as QB and splitting Colt out as a meaningless receiver. I'm hoping Major can help GD think outside the box.
 
Great post kchorn i have been thinking about the same issue since seasons end.

I hope we take advantage of the talent on the team and more importantly recognized individual players short comings and weaknesses.


I agree with the point that a pro-style offensive attack at Texas has yet to produce a championship. With only colt at the helm in this formation, we will be unsuccessful in winning a championship in the future. My viewpoint is based on the following:

1) We tried this approach with two of the best talent QB's ever to come to Texas with Major and Chris and not produce a championship. We assembled a steady running game to complement this attacked; however, we became one dimensional against good defenses and turned the ball over to cost us many a games.

2)Colt has not exhibited the patience's and leadership ability to get the job done. If anything this year has proven that when he puts too much on himself mistakes and turnovers happen that cost us wins.

3) White and WVA shredded the sooners with the zone read and an athletic QB. Chiles speed and footwork is a freak of nature. It is extremely important that Chiles is further developed and shares key playing time with Colt. There is a place on the team for both of their abilities and this would lessen the pressure on Colt with the passing attack and open up the running game. Next year in the the big XII, passing QB's are a dime a dozen but there will be only one JC.
Can you imagine the pressure Chiles will place on the defenses?




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There were no pictures or funny diagrams, so I didn't read this. jk
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Seriously, I would think that what you saw in the Holiday Bowl is probably pretty similar to what you'll see this fall. I'd like to think that Chiles will not only play at QB, but start to mix some passes into his game. But I fully expect them to keep using him the way they did against ASU. I thinkColt will still be a guy who primarily will run when a play breaks down, and that's probably a good way to stay, only mixing in a couple of planned runs just to keep defenses honest. I don't think turning him into a 10- or 15-carry-per-game QB is necessarily a good thing to do.
 
Am I the only one who isn't sold on Chiles?

I think the offense is going to be fine assuming the o-line performance improved and the HB was not a fluke.

I am still concerned about the defense. For 2 years, I have watched team after team convert 3rd and 15+ yards. On the field performance is the only thing that will change this. Will the secondary try again for another 100th ranked pass defense? Will they move up to 50th? 30th? 20th?
 
Nice posts Kchorn and Okhorns.

The sig below tells you what I think of JC. The losses of Sweed, Finley, Jones and Charles are huge. And now we hear that Montre Webber won't be involved in the spring. Thats a lot of major weapons that are gone.

Here is a list of guys that MUST step up.

A. WR's Malcolm Williams, James Kirkendoll with Quan and Ship carrying them till they get up to speed.

B. TB's Vondrell McGee and Obie carrying the run load till Fozzy gets a feel for the game.

C. FB. CODY JOHNSON 240 and now I hear that he has bulked to 260lbs.!! With solid body mass. Is this Robert Newesome of the Dallas Cowboys who was a HUMAN BOWLING BALL? 10 yards a carry his last two years in HS!! I hope he is healing up from his injuries and that we USE the fullback position to a. lead block for TB b. pass block c. keep'em guessing in the run game for big yards and conversions on third and and shorts. The how 'bout Luke Tieman? That makes two good FB's.

D. TE's I want to see Peter Uhlman produce as a senior. He has a TD reception or two under his belt but we need more, much more from him. If he can come on this spring, he can mentor the younger Irby along. Hopefully Josh Marshall can also show us some stuff. WE must have TWO good TE's.

E. LT This spot on the line is so crucial to the passing game. If your LT cannot protect the QB's blind side then incompletions, interceptions, sacks and just generally running for your life and getting embarrased is the result. See '07 season. Can Tray Allen play to a five star ability he was ranked at?

A healthy dose of John Chiles at least 40% of the time will keep chains rolling, till some of these newbys "get it".

Go Horns and give it 110% effort in "08!
 
Nivek: You are not the only one. I watched Chiles once at Summit and during our games last year. I hope he has passing skills that I haven't spotted yet. Leading the TD drives versus ASU was nice, but I thought their defense was less than inspired all night. I do think he has exceptional athletic ability, and I have hopes that Coach Davis can coach him up.
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I don't think it's fair to say Mack can't win the conference with a "passing" QB. How easily we forget that "had Major started in Big 12 title game instead of Simms" Texas would have been in the NC game. It took an ill-fated few possessions from Simms and some awful defense from our "#1" ranked defense to lose that game vs CU.

While I'm part of the camp that thinks Chiles should get more PT as a QB, I'm not sold that he's "the answer" to our hopes. I think McCoy is definately the team leader, while Chiles is a "change of pace". Don't think for a moment, that with Chiles' current abilities, opponent defenses wouldn't shut us down.

You are right though. It will be interesting to see our "philosophy" after Major takes control.
 
Chiles has not proven the abilty to be an effective passing QB on the field yet. Your post intimates that we are a one dimensional passing attack with Colt but fails to acknowledge we were a one dimensional rushing attack with Chiles. Neither option (being one dimensional) is going to be effective against great defenses IMO.

Also, your criticisms about Colt's performance last year - I think Colt did a lot better when GD simplified his options late in the season. When he (Colt) is more decisive on the field, he is very good. Have you forgotten his freshman campaign? I think he had a chance to take the team to the NC if he hadn't got hurt.
 
chiles is one of the playmakers on this team. you HAVE to get him on the field more. my fear is that he remains underutilized, but my hope is that our coaches give him the damn ball. he and colt together could be a deadly combination.

also, i couldn't help but make note of this:

In reply to:
Click to expand...
 
"Colt has not exhibited the patience's and leadership ability to get the job done."

Oh, come on. Colt has led us to victory on numerous time in his short career. I think everyone, including Colt himself, recognized that he was trying to do too much early on last year. So, he read his press clippings and got a little ahead of himself - so, what? Davis also admitted that he, himself, overdid it with Colt giving him too many options.

IMO, our offensive struggles had more to do with O-line issues than Colt. It wasn't Colt who couldn't open up holes for JC. It wasn't Colt who couldn't keep the KSU D-lineman from jumping over our blocks to disrupt passes.

Give me a frickin' break. How many second half if not fourth quarter comebacks does a Fr/So quarterback have to lead to demonstrate leadership?
 
Appreciate the responses, from all corners.

Some thoughts in regard to yours (noting, first off, that Mack indicated in his Spring Practice press conference today that John Chiles will stay at QB for the Horns, but that "4 QBs" are "too many" -- whatever that may mean down the road):

(1) okhorns - thanks for your post.

What you have written, with clarity and logical precision, hits (imo) the center of the target. If what you suggest -- with John Chiles -- actually occurs this Fall, then the 2008 Horns could win the Big-12 Conference football title.

(2) The Horn Identity - your observation also runs, imo, to the heart of the matter.

You suggest that "Mack & Greg seem content to stick with the offense that won them the NC." If that actually proves to be true in the 2008 football season, then the Horns' offense (imo) could be very effective this Fall ... much more so than in the past two football seasons when Texas drifted away from the offensive philosophy that won us the 2005 MNC.

In the past two football seasons, we've seen the Horns revert, at least with all the chips on the table, to the "one-man" running game [when we had just one running threat (our one RB) because Colt, for whatever reasons, declined to run with the football himself -- e.g., in the first three quarters of both the Nebraska and A&M games, and throughout the Kansas State and Oklahoma games] -- a running-game scheme that never has worked effectively (to win a Conference title) for Mack & Greg in their entire intercollegiate coaching careers spanning three decades.

If Colt McCoy and John Chiles, as the Horns' quarterbacks, actually "do" run with the football this Fall -- then we will have "two" viable running threats on the football field for our offense at the same time, just like we did in the 2005 MNC season.

As Selvin Young has observed: "We won (in the 2005 MNC season) because opposing defenses could not stop two running threats."

(3) baoklhorn - always good to hear from you, and that is an excellent post on your part.

Your list of our key player-personnel issues is an astute analysis of the situation (going into Spring Practice) for the 2008 Horns. Not only do you nail the issue with our QB situation (and John Chiles), but you also have named, possibly, the key WR for the Horns this Fall -- Malcolm Williams.

It also will be interesting, as you have noted, to see if Cody Johnson can play fullback for the 2008 Horns.

(4) Nivek - appreciate your point.

While it always is possible, given the complexities of the sport of football, to place the blame on a variety of factors (e.g., the OL or the defense) for the Horns' failure to win more than one Conference title during Mack's decade-long tenure at Texas ...

... the most consistent problem, imo, has been the documented failure of our "one-man" running game (when we have a "passing QB" who does not run with the football effectively on designed running plays vs. quality opponents in title games).

For example, this past season the 2007 Horns lost to Kansas State, Oklahoma and A&M as our running game evaporated in those contests -- and Colt McCoy averaged just .6 (six-tenths) of a yard rushing, while also throwing six interceptions (combined), in those three losses.

Conversely, in the 2007 Holiday Bowl (which we all enjoyed), the Horns used "both" John Chiles and Colt McCoy at QB with our first-team offense ... and in two full possessions, Chiles led the Horns' first-team offense to two TDs, with Texas scoring 14 points in just 1 minute and 37 seconds of playing time -- while averaging 15 yards-per-play.

Chiles' example arguably helped to encourage Colt to run with the football himself in the same game ... just as was the case earlier in the 2007 football season in the fourth quarter of the Nebraska game (when Chiles substituted on one play for Colt, and helped to ignite the Horns' running game -- as acknowledged by both Colt McCoy and Chris Hall in their postgame comments -- vs. the Huskers).

(5) cochamps - that is an interesting observation.

If you saw John Chiles passing the football for Mansfield Summit, then it may be apropos -- to put your observation in perspective -- to note the actual passing stats for Chiles during his senior year as a dual-threat QB for Summit (playing at the Class 5A level of Texas HS football competition in the Metroplex).

Specifically, John Chiles completed 56 percent of his passes that year for 1,805 yards (14.8 yards-per-completion), with 24 TD passes and just 8 interceptions. In other words, Chiles' record passing the football in Texas Class 5A football is much better than some of his critics would have you believe.

Interestingly, in the Horns' 2007 football season, Colt averaged 11.9 yards per-completion, with 22 TD passes and 18 interceptions ... which was more interceptions than all but one other QB in all of major-college football.

It will be interesting, as always, to see what happens in the Horns' Spring Football practice sessions.

Hook 'em.
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kchorn: good post. I like the discussion.

I think you're making an awfully big assumption, though, in your basic premise. You're right that what you call a pro-style offense hasn't won Mack a conference championship, but I don't think that supports your implication that such an offense can't win a championship. There are just too many other factors that might explain that phenomenon.


1. As someone already pointed out, that pro-style offense scored 37 points in the 2001 Conference Championship game. We didn't lose that game because of our offensive philosophy. It had much more to do--in fact, it had everything to do--with some defensive breakdowns and one player having the worst game of his career.

2. The conference was far, far stronger from 1998-2002 than it was in 2005, when OU was down, A&M was a joke, and the whole north division was atrocious. This is purely hypothetical, but I bet most posters would agree that several of our teams from the Applewhite/Simms era could have won the conference that year.

3. Just because we won a championship with one dual-threat QB, that doesn't mean that any dual-threat QB could duplicate the feat. After all, we all agree that Vince was pretty unique.

Overall, I agree with a lot of your points, and I think our definitely offense worked best when Colt (and Chiles) was scaring opponents with his feet as well as his arm. I just don't think that means that Mack or Greg Davis 'can't' win a conference championship without a running threat at QB.
 
Mack talks about running a balanced offense and yet the pieces of the roster don't seem to fit together. Why do you have 12 wide receivers and 5 tight ends on your roster if you don't plan to utilize them in a pass heavy offense?

How does Cody Johson fit into the the offense? What about Cobb and Chris O?

Additionally, I am not convinced that more of Chiles is a good thing if he can't throw the football. If you go back and look, Chiles was normally more effective the first few series he came into the game. As defenses adjusted to his quickness and his inability to throw the ball the offense bogged down. Chiles doesn't have to be a great passer in 2008, but needs to be able to pose a credible threat and keep defenses honest.
 
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