Sour Grapes or Real Grapes? The ref'ing in the Baylor game

[racerx5908]

Part of any loss (and some wins) is griping about the refereeing in a game. First, we got beat by Baylor with their good shots and their ONLY ONE MISSED FREE THROW ATTEMPT. But in regards to all those attempts at the free throw line................

Two separate thoughts:
1) I've always believed the refs are intimidated by Mulkey. When a foul is finally called on her player, she BLOWS up. She does the backward lean, her arms stretched out and essentially says, "Are you FRICKIN kidding me?!?". We have tickets across the court from the Baylor bench and the F-E-W whistles they got, she went into ballistic mode. I saw Karen lose it one time where her assistants had to herd her back before she got a technical. Also, looking up at the player/stat board you see a column of 2 or 3 fouls for our team and a bunch of 0 or 1 fouls for their team. Good gracious, can we be the only one fouling in the game in an almost 3-1 ratio?

2) There's a ref we call the "traveling ref". He LOVES to call traveling. He's good for about 5 calls a game. On the THIRD traveling call he made against Imani, I yelled out "That's a BULLCRAP call!". There were two ardent Baylor fans sitting in front of us. The woman turned around and said to me, "That ref sure likes calling traveling doesn't he?" I nodded and said, "Yeah, he's the traveling ref". She said, "And...uhhh, I didn't see no traveling there at all" I wish I knew how much criticism this particular ref gets reported to by the coaches in the Big 12. ARG.

 

[TempestHorn]

My two thoughts on Sunday's officiating are this

1) our guards need to be taught/coached to keep their frickin hands off the opposing team's players 20 feet away from the damn basket. The officials have been very consistent with calling this new point of emphasis. While I think it's idiotic to call touch fouls 20 feet from the basket and let people get thrown to the ground when they penetrate in the paint with no-call, that is the way officials officiate. ADJUST! We are two months in to the season and we haven't adjusted. There has yet to be a game where we don't get called for putting/resting the forearm on a player after making the initial contact. STOP DOING THIS! If you eliminated the contact fouls, you don't have 3 guards in foul trouble by the 2nd quarter and you have a very different game.

2) the charge against Kelsey late in the game when we could have cut the lead to 4 or 6. I don't remember which. I really can't believe you make that call. On the very next possession the male ref called an offensive foul against Baylor which was a total make-up call. But we didn't get any free throws out of that make-up call.

 

[CavalryRoadie]

I'm sure to catch grief for this, but taking the last 37 seconds out of the equation

Total Fouls:
Baylor - 18
Texas - 22

Foul Shots:
Baylor - 17
Texas - 13

While I agree there were some ticky-tack calls (and some strange non-calls), I don't think they all went Baylor's way.

 

[racerx5908]

I'm sure to catch grief for this, but taking the last 37 seconds out of the equation

Total Fouls:
Baylor - 18
Texas - 22

Foul Shots:
Baylor - 17
Texas - 13

While I agree there were some ticky-tack calls (and some strange non-calls), I don't think they all went Baylor's way.

Well, you got the facts right. Must be fan-based emotions then. But the traveling calls. Argh!

 

[utfannforlife]

I believe the count was 11-3 after the first quarter? Thats abysmal. And its not so much the total # of calls, but the time and situation of each call.

 

[WCBBNUT]

I believe the count was 11-3 after the first quarter? Thats abysmal. And its not so much the total # of calls, but the time and situation of each call.

Agreed. We dug our hole with those early fouls and seemed out of sorts the rest of the half. I sit where I can actually hear Mulkey at times. She is a master at working the refs and at times it appeared as if her strategy was to keep one ref preoccupied whenever her players were bringing the ball down the court.

I think the fouls called against us were legit. However, the calls not made against Baylor were nothing short of shocking . The elbows and moving screens were everywhere and I began to notice they happened about the same time Mulkey was attempting to get the refs attention. She actually started complaining with Baylor's very first foul and I think we already had 4 or 5 at that point.

At one point, Karen told the refs she had never seen anything like it. I have never seen her that upset and quite frankly I had to agree.

Probably sour grapes on my part, but I had a damn clear view of the whole thing. Could be I was wearing burnt orange colored glasses.

I like other successful coaches including Summit, McGraw, and have even warmed up to Geno. However, I have never liked Kim. Whenever I learn of another former player who leaves Baylor and wants nothing more to do with her (including Griner) my feelings of dislike are renewed.

 

[rattfatt]

I believe the count was 11-3 after the first quarter? Thats abysmal. And its not so much the total # of calls, but the time and situation of each call.

That's a great point. But in my opinion there were bad calls for both teams and in the end baylor was just the better team that day.

 

[utfannforlife]

That's a great point. But in my opinion there were bad calls for both teams and in the end baylor was just the better team that day.

Dont get me wrong, the refs didnt win the game. BU still had to make 26 or 27 free throws, nina davis had to go for 24, and alexis jones still had to put in those 29 points.

Just want it to be noted that it was a factor.

 

[racerx5908]

She is a master at working the refs and at times it appeared as if her strategy was to keep one ref preoccupied whenever her players were bringing the ball down the court.

Yes! I totally was thinking the same thing. She had the ear of one ref when the team was coming down the court on their side. The other refs called some foul on them and then of course she immediately exploded with a WHAT!!!

My wife never says much negative about other teams, but for Baylor she always mutters, "They're the dirtiest team" every time we finish playing them. I think Imani was so fed up with being grabbed constantly. There was one foul, maybe her 4th, where she just dejected told the ref, "Really?" as she was lining up for their free throw.

 

[BabHorn]

I agree that the refs were really poor and seemed to call the reverse of what they saw, including, I think it was Kelsey's fourth, where she was bowled over by a charging BU player and was called for blocking.

But other than giving BU extra chances with our TOs and BU hitting a very uncharacteristic 24-25 from the FT line, I think we still would have won this game.

They made only one more FG with the extra ten shots they took. We had four more 3s than them but those 15 extra FTs they made allowed them to get the win. Normally, they had been making less than 60% of their FTs. And some of those were when we were fouling at the end.

Some of our turnovers were simply head scratchers. Those have to be eliminated in games. And I have to think that they will be at least reduced quite a bit.

Baylor won this game but they got a boost from the unforced turnovers we committed.

 

[JoeDallas]

Re: comments above on Mulkey working refs. It's really repulsive. In many ways, for me she is the very definition of a poor sport. I believe the refs are affected by her, whether they realize it consciously or not. So, do we wish Karen was like her? NO, but I did like it when Karen got fired up and would like her to work the refs to a greater degree (without becoming a Mulkey). I can't think of another women's coach who acts like Mulkey. Summitt worked the refs hard, but not like Mulkey. Early in her career, Conradt was pretty fiery, but on a much more selective basis.

 

[56 Bells]

If you want to see about the refs, simply look at all of the home games and conference games Baylor has played. Then look at who the refs were. Do the same for UT's home games and conference games thus far.
See the pattern.

 

[CavalryRoadie]

If you want to see about the refs, simply look at all of the home games and conference games Baylor has played. Then look at who the refs were. Do the same for UT's home games and conference games thus far.
See the pattern.

For those of us that don't have the time to set up the spreadsheet, couldn't you just share the data you have?

 

[Statalyzer]

1) It's almost impossible to judge anything about the quality of officiating from looking at raw totals of fouls called.

2) None of this has anything to do with "sour grapes". Sour grapes is not whining / complaining, sour grapes is when you behave as if a certain goal is valuable, but then once you fail to achieve it, you devalue it.

 

[WCBBNUT]

1)

2) None of this has anything to do with "sour grapes". Sour grapes is not whining / complaining, sour grapes is when you behave as if a certain goal is valuable, but then once you fail to achieve it, you devalue it.

Actually it is appropriate because we would be devaluing Baylor's win (or our loss) if we blame it on unfair officiating.

 

["Anna hook em"]

Part of any loss (and some wins) is griping about the refereeing in a game. First, we got beat by Baylor with their good shots and their ONLY ONE MISSED FREE THROW ATTEMPT. But in regards to all those attempts at the free throw line................

Two separate thoughts:
1) I've always believed the refs are intimidated by Mulkey. When a foul is finally called on her player, she BLOWS up. She does the backward lean, her arms stretched out and essentially says, "Are you FRICKIN kidding me?!?". We have tickets across the court from the Baylor bench and the F-E-W whistles they got, she went into ballistic mode. I saw Karen lose it one time where her assistants had to herd her back before she got a technical. Also, looking up at the player/stat board you see a column of 2 or 3 fouls for our team and a bunch of 0 or 1 fouls for their team. Good gracious, can we be the only one fouling in the game in an almost 3-1 ratio?

2) There's a ref we call the "traveling ref". He LOVES to call traveling. He's good for about 5 calls a game. On the THIRD traveling call he made against Imani, I yelled out "That's a BULLCRAP call!". There were two ardent Baylor fans sitting in front of us. The woman turned around and said to me, "That ref sure likes calling traveling doesn't he?" I nodded and said, "Yeah, he's the traveling ref". She said, "And...uhhh, I didn't see no traveling there at all" I wish I knew how much criticism this particular ref gets reported to by the coaches in the Big 12. ARG.

That call where Coach Aston got very upset was about at the 2.35 time left in the game 4th quarter, it would have cut the lead to 6, the ref called it a offensive foul against lang looking at the replay the ref blew that call and IMO if coach would have gotten a technical foul called i think it would have fired up myself and the crowd more.

 

[car54]

A good coach will get in the ref's head at the right time and right situation. Kim Mulkey and UConn's coach are good at that.....Aston needs to learn that.