Simulated snap.

Longbomb

Longbomb

500+ Posts
10 guys in motion, including 3 guys sprinting towards the LOS simultaneously is not a simulated snap?

If not, then it should be done every offensive play.
It would be basically unstoppable with the amount of uncertainty it puts on a defense.

That fake snap was a huge play for OSU.
Absolutely ridiculous call.
 
My main issue was the lineman already in line that were moving. Really hard for me to see how that's a legal play. I get that they're allowed to run up to the line from a huddle, but this was clearly a simulated play.
 
dukesteer said:
Agree that it was a terrible missed call but we really laid an egg tonight and didn’t deserve to win.
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OK eyore. LOL

I thought he passed with Pop's passing! :P

Yes, ultimately, the team DID play well enough to win ... not well enough to overcome some really bad officiating (not as bad as this game at DKR in '15) ... and this one only one example.

PI continues to be "zebra discretion" ... our guy flagged for it looking for the ball ... their guy not when our guy runs over him ... how is that NOT impeding progress to the ball?

missed holds and fake holds (even on OkSt when we RAN the ball???)

I hate this "fair catch" kickoff nonsense. I'm not a fan of it on a punt either. Receive it and run ... or get away from it (except KO ... live ball)

I don't like the new clock rules either. TV has bloated the slot with commercials, so the "game" runs too long? And the answer is ... shorten play time??? NO. The game should go without regard to TV. Let the market pressure TV to minimize loss of game time.

Anyhow ...I digress a bit.
 
NCAA Rule 7, Article 2 prohibits (1) “any movement by one or more players that simulates the start of a play”; (2) “a restricted lineman moving his hands or making any quick movement”; or (3) “an offensive player making any quick, jerky movement before the snap, including but not limited to a lineman moving his foot, shoulder, arm, body or head ..., the snapper shifting or moving the ball, moving his thumb or fingers, flexing his elbows ... or dipping his shoulders, ... or a back simulating receiving the ball by making any quick, jerky movement.”

With the rule in hand it’s hard to argue there weren’t multiple infractions on that play. And that’s my biggest issue. This wasn’t a bang-bang judgment call type of play. If you know the rules, it’s pretty obvious or at least should be.

It’s true we didn’t have our A game for all 60 minutes tonight, that’s for sure. However, IMHO “deserve to win” is a hard concept in football. For example, Okie squandered the lead in the second half and held on for dear life. Had we completed the comeback I’m not sure I’d agree we didn’t deserve to win. Both teams obviously had chances they didn’t cash in on and we probably had more of those than them. But we played well in the second half on the road in a noisy stadium. I will tip my hat to that.

But the point here is that the Big 12 refs once again made mistakes on critical plays. It wasn’t only the simulated snap but also the holding on Beck, which negated a huge play. Big 12 refs do not understand holding or choose not to properly enforce it, and it can cause issues for Big 12 players at the NFL level.

I hope things like this will spur the Big 12 to invest some more in training. Walt Anderson has thankfully been replaced by Greg Burks, so maybe there’s some hope.
 
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at risk of getting banned to West Mall ... but like government ...

fewer rules is better. Better for the officials because the live call doesn't have to run through 9 iterations of if/then ... better for the players because learning is simple ... and ditto for the coaches in teaching.

Shouldn't be PI. Shouldn't be fair catch. Shouldn't be targeting.

I still don't know how the D can be flagged for holding on a run play and I've read that "rule" 3 times.

Bottom line, too much officials' influence on the game's outcome. That shouldn't be.
 
It certainly seems like based on the rule it should have been a simulated snap, but I don't know how the refs are trained to interpret the rule or enforce it. That said, why isn't our whole defensive line yelling NO OFFSIDE! NO OFFSIDE! when you know that's exactly what the offense is trying to do. There's no excuse for getting that penalty when they only intend to draw an offside.
 
Run Pincher said:
It certainly seems like based on the rule it should have been a simulated snap, but I don't know how the refs are trained to interpret the rule or enforce it. That said, why isn't our whole defensive line yelling NO OFFSIDE! NO OFFSIDE! when you know that's exactly what the offense is trying to do. There's no excuse for getting that penalty when they only intend to draw an offside.
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Because okie state only needed half yard. Had they snapped it and we been on our heels they would’ve easily gotten the yardage. That’s the major / inherent unfairness of that play and why it must be enforced in that situation.
 
The "stance" for the lineman should be expanded to include "2 point." Once the feet are set, that should be IT ... whether 4, 3 or 2 point. Don't move until the ball is snapped.

I don't like the encroachment/neutral zone infraction. Either the D is offsides because the ball was snapped with them across the LOS, or the jumped and made contact.

if they run into the backfield and don't make contact with anyone and return to on -sides before the ball is snapped ... should be legal.

In this "sim snap" ... weren't the two up-backs moving forward at the same time? Isn't that a procedure call?
 
But we didn't know they were only trying to draw us offside. In fact, we still don't. They shifted from a punt formation to a standard formation, maybe they were hoping we would have the wrong personnel out and then they actually run a play.
 
Run Pincher said:
Anytime the offense has 4th and less than 5 to go you absolutely have to be focused on no offside, no matter what.
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Huge difference between 4th and 5, 4th and 2 and or less. Avoiding offsides critical in both. And in the former you will see teams 1/2 yard off the line of scrimmage — as we were on other punts But in the 4th and 2 or less it is equally critical not letting them run straight up gut, which is more available in punt formation with wide stances. So DL must be ready.
 
We can argue about the calls, some of which sucked, but as has been the case many times this year, we got ourselves in a hole early — our doing — and we couldn’t dig our way out. We made OSU look like Murray and OU for the first twenty minutes of the game. We couldn’t cover anyone and we couldn’t tackle. It was an uninspired, unprepared effort.

So for me, it’s hard to fall back on the calls because had we played a decent game defensively, it would not have mattered.
 
dukesteer said:
We can argue about the calls, some of which sucked, but as has been the case many times this year, we got ourselves in a hole early — our doing — and we couldn’t dig our way out. We made OSU look like Murray and OU for the first twenty minutes of the game. We couldn’t cover anyone and we couldn’t tackle. It was an uninspired, unprepared effort.

So for me, it’s hard to fall back on the calls because had we played a decent game defensively, it would not have mattered.
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Yep. There were a whole lot of stupid moments, lack of effort and lack of focus. Our prima donnas thought they were more important than the team. You can't blame that on the refs.
 
Dish Falk said:
NCAA Rule 7, Article 2 prohibits (1) “any movement by one or more players that simulates the start of a play”; (2) “a restricted lineman moving his hands or making any quick movement”; or (3) “an offensive player making any quick, jerky movement before the snap, including but not limited to a lineman moving his foot, shoulder, arm, body or head ..., the snapper shifting or moving the ball, moving his thumb or fingers, flexing his elbows ... or dipping his shoulders, ... or a back simulating receiving the ball by making any quick, jerky movement.”

With the rule in hand it’s hard to argue there weren’t multiple infractions on that play. And that’s my biggest issue. This wasn’t a bang-bang judgment call type of play. If you know the rules, it’s pretty obvious or at least should be.

It’s true we didn’t have our A game for all 60 minutes tonight, that’s for sure. However, IMHO “deserve to win” is a hard concept in football. For example, Okie squandered the lead in the second half and held on for dear life. Had we completed the comeback I’m not sure I’d agree we didn’t deserve to win. Both teams obviously had chances they didn’t cash in on and we probably had more of those than them. But we played well in the second half on the road in a noisy stadium. I will tip my hat to that.

But the point here is that the Big 12 refs once again made mistakes on critical plays. It wasn’t only the simulated snap but also the holding on Beck, which negated a huge play. Big 12 refs do not understand holding or choose not to properly enforce it, and it can cause issues for Big 12 players at the NFL level.

I hope things like this will spur the Big 12 to invest some more in training. Walt Anderson has thankfully been replaced by Greg Burks, so maybe there’s some hope.
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Perhaps the most egregious missed call, because of when it happened, was the hold on Boyd by OSU's WR as Cornelius scored the last TD. If Boyd's not held, there's no guarantee the QB scores.
 
longhorn47 said:
Perhaps the most egregious missed call, because of when it happened, was the hold on Boyd by OSU's WR as Cornelius scored the last TD. If Boyd's not held, there's no guarantee the QB scores.
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there was the WR at the goal line (#2?) ... and #17 early in the play right in front of Cornelius. I forget who was held ... but he was. ASSUMING open field tackle, QB would have been dropped for a minimal gain.
 
ShAArk92 said:
Yes, ultimately, the team DID play well enough to win ... not well enough to overcome some really bad officiating (not as bad as this game at DKR in '15) ... and this one only one example.
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Unfortunately the team did not play good enough to win. OSU scored basically everytime they had to especially in the 4th quarter. The Texas offense could not do that.
 
ViperHorn said:
The Texas offense could not do that.
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but the O did. That's why we were only down 3 with getting the ball back and almost 6 minutes left in the game after being down by 17. I'm not saying it was pretty. I'm not saying the inconsistent play was acceptable ... I'm saying it was good enough to win last night in Stillwater save for a couple of bad calls at really crucial points in the game. (this very thread's sim snap)
 
ShAArk we must not have been watching the same game. This game was Maryland the last two seasons and the two most recent Cal games. The Texas 22 just did not seem to care.
 
watched the same game, @ViperHorn but different definitions, I suppose.

The O played good enough to win ... just good enough ... but for a couple bad calls/missed calls ... and (IMHBAO) chunkin off the 2YL was a playcalling issue.
 
The O played good enough to win
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I agree with this. The offense put up 35 points on the road at night - that should be good enough to win. This loss is on the defense in my book.

Thanks for posting the rule because, in the stands, I am yelling "they had 3 guys in motion towards the LOS, you can't DO that" but I was not totally sure since so many rules have changed lately.

[broken record]Big 12 refs have been screwing us since the Big 12 was formed. Are they all still pissed about NU? IDK, but they don't even try to hide it anymore.[/broken record]
 
Well seeing that they scored a TOUCHDOWN every other time they went for it on fourth down, giving up only 5 yards on a penalty could be considered a victory.
 
That holding call when we were backed up to our own end zone (after Brandon Jones' bone head play), was bs too.

The ball was on the half yard line, our OL was lined up with their back ends in the end zone. The OL retreated as the ball was snapped. No way we could hold and it not be in the end zone, resulting in a safety. They called the hold on Vahe, but not a safety. Either he held in the end zone, or he didn't hold. The replay didn't appear to show holding. Cost us a first down and led to OSU's last TD.

That officiating crew led by that muscle bound, bespectacled ref is not good.
 
I was thinking at the time that a safety wouldn't have been the end of the world, maybe even a smart play.

IIRC, Horns were down by 3 with about 9 minutes left in the game, at the Texas 2 yard line.

Assume you're playing to score a TD to win, not a FG to tie, a safety would have put Texas down only by 5, BUT oSu would have to free kick to Texas.

Ignoring for a second the possibility of fair catching at the 2 yard line (referring to a similar brain fart in the game by Texas special teams), Texas would likely have gained field position, gotten off the goal line where bad things can happen (e.g., fumble loss to oSu for an oSu TD or int for a pick 6), and still have almost too much time to drive down the field, score a TD, and win the game.

Or even the possibility of a free kick return for a TD.

Anything but trying to dig out of your own endzone. Particularly with throwing the ball.

Edit: As pointed out in responses to this post, I got the free kick backwards, so addressed in my latr post.
 
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I thought we started that 2YL possession with just under 6 minutes remaining. But your point is sound and would have been a fantastic Mensa call. At that point, the O was actually getting it done.

conceding 2 points and starting over at the 25 ish (plus?) .... would likely have resulted in a go ahead TD a few minutes later.

sigh.
 
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