Should the largest banks be broken up

Bevo Incognito

5,000+ Posts
I just read the details of the JP Morgan debacle.

It's growing ever clearer to me that the largest banks are too big to be managed efficiently.

And what an egg on the face of Jamie Dimon. He really should just shut up for awhile.

I kind of wish banks would stick to just plain banking: places to park your cash, lending etc....
 
We should not be worried about a bank going under causing the entire economy to possibly come to a stand still, so yes. Also insurance companies like AIG should be able to make good on their policies without bailouts.

We have allowed these banks to overleverage themselves and we need to reverse the legislation that allowed that to happen.
 
I think for now BI that ship has already sailed w/the passage of TARP...unitl the next crisis, of course. Until I-bankers are out of the politicians and the Feds back pockets, the TBTF banks will stay intact. It's always easier to gamble w/OPM (Other People's Money), when your arrogance and egregious actions are now the norm, are used to "frighten" the politicians and the populace into believing that the global economy couldn't exist w/o these same I-banks that created the problem in the first place, and knowing that heavy-handed banking lobbyists can re-write the legislation that guarantees the status quo and benefits them exclusively.
 
So you're suggesting "breaking the banks up" because of a trading loss that will have no impact on the system? Jamie Dimon has to respond to this mistake that was made and as such should not shut up. He can run circles around the vast majority of CEOs so I'm not really sure what he has said in the past that has you so upset. Banks by and large do stick to lending. JPM is an investment bank that merged with commercial lender Chase.
 
No they should not be broken up. However, they should be viewed with great skepticism by any individual banking customer looking for a company to do business with. The Megabanks are good places for WalMart and other large companies to keep their accounts. Not so good for Average Joe American. AJA is usually better served by local independent banks or credit unions.
 
Rex, were I to advocate breaking up the largest banks, it would not be because of this trading loss but because a) it is quite apparent that they cannot be entrusted to manage their risk and b) because of their size, the fact that they can't manage risk has such enormous repercussions for the rest of us.


If they wanna run risks go off and be a hedge fund or something.
 
In the last round of bailouts, some banks were allowed to fail while others were not. Makes no sense. If businesses fail, they fail. Others will take their places. Why do we keep propping up failing businesses? We have bankruptcy laws for a reason.
 
IMO they should have been broken up in 2008. So if the system ever looks to be going down that path again then this option should be exercised. In the meantime I think we need to reinstate Glass-Steagall, and reverse the 2004 SEC rule that allows the top 5 investment banks to increase their leverage from 12:1 to 100:1. These institutions won't police themselves so we need laws to do it for us.
 
JPM is the epitome of crony capitalism. I'm sure they can manage risk, as they do so on a daily basis, but their track record along with other I-banks in the last few years leads me, and I'm sure a host of others way more knowledgable than I, to believe that they aren't as smart as they would like us to believe at risk management, even while having the keys to the US treasury printing presses via the Fed. Reserve.
 
Keep in mind that government bailouts help make JPM Chase the monster that it is. Remember WaMu?
The more that government interferes with business, the more of a mess they create.
 
I think Janet Tavakoli, Jim Rogers and Zero Hedge would probably disagree with you on JPM's ability to manage risk. Janet is an expert on credit derivatives and structured finance. The Link

"JPMorgan's Derivatives Blow Up Again

"Jamie Dimon's problem as Chairman and CEO--his dual role raises further questions about JPMorgan's corporate governance---is that just two years ago derivatives trades were out of control in his commodities division. JPMorgan's short coal position was over sized relative to the global coal market. JPMorgan put this position on while the U.S. is at war. It was not a customer trade; the purpose was to make money for JPMorgan. Although coal isn't a strategic commodity, one should question why the bank was so reckless."

"After trading hours on Thursday of this week, Jamie Dimon held a conference call about $2 billion in mark-to-market losses in credit derivatives (so far) generated by the Chief Investment Office, the bank's "investment" book. He admitted:

"In hindsight, the new strategy was flawed, complex, poorly reviewed, poorly executed, and poorly monitored."


" But lets get back to commodities. For several years, legendary investor Jim Rogers has expressed his concern to me about JPMorgan's balance sheet, credit card division, and his belief that Blythe Masters, the head of JPMorgan's commodities area, knows so little about commodities. Jim Rogers is an expert in commodities and is the creator or the Rogers International Commodities Index. He also sells out-of-the-money calls on JPMorgan stock. So far, that strategy has worked out well for him. (Rogers gave me permission to publicly reflect his views and his trades.) Moreover, JPMorgan is still grappling with potential legal liabilities related to the mortgage crisis."

"Is Jim Rogers justified in his harsh view of JPMorgan's commodities division? After he expressed his concerns, JPMorgan's coal trade made the news, and it appeared to me that Jim Rogers is on to something. For those of you who missed it the first time, my August 9, 2010 commentary is reproduced below in its entirety. Dawn Kopecki at Bloomberg/BusinessWeek broke the story wherein Blythe Masters' quotes first appeared:"

Blythe Masters told her remaining employees that competitors are "scared sh*tless" of JPMorgan's commodities division. She claimed the layoffs of 10% of front office staff are not a sign of JPMorgan "panicking" and called the risk taking in coal trading that left JPMorgan wide-open to a massive short squeeze a "rookie error."

"For individual traders, JPMorgan doesn't follow the Wall Street maxim: He who sells what isn't his'n, must buy it back or go to pris'n. The U.S. can count on JPMorgan to continue both long and short market manipulation and take its winnings and losses from blind gambles. Shareholders, taxpayers, and consumers will foot the bill for any unpleasant global consequences."

" Physical oil traders from JPMorgan's brand new RBS Sempra Commodities LLP acquisition (JPMorgan paid $1.7 billion) left of their own accord to join smaller firms with less capital. Masters said these were "very interesting career decisions."

"The defections were all the more interesting, because Masters began her career as a JPMorgan commodities trader. RBS Sempra's oil traders gave Masters a vote of no confidence. Their flight was a loss of "key people," whom she said she needs to replace. "
The Link

ZeroHedge points out the massive exposure to derivatives contracts with interest rate swaps exceeding well over $70 trillion dollars in notional value just from JPM alone.

"The latest quarterly report from the Office Of the Currency Comptroller is out and as usual it presents in a crisp, clear and very much glaring format the fact that the top 4 banks in the US now account for a massively disproportionate amount of the derivative risk in the financial system. Specifically, of the $250 trillion in gross notional amount of derivative contracts outstanding (consisting of Interest Rate, FX, Equity Contracts, Commodity and CDS) among the Top 25 commercial banks (a number that swells to $333 trillion when looking at the Top 25 Bank Holding Companies), a mere 5 banks (and really 4) account for 95.9% of all derivative exposure (HSBC replaced Wells as the Top 5th bank, which at $3.9 trillion in derivative exposure is a distant place from #4 Goldman with $47.7 trillion). The top 4 banks: JPM with $78.1 trillion in exposure, Citi with $56 trillion, Bank of America with $53 trillion and Goldman with $48 trillion, account for 94.4% of total exposure. As historically has been the case, the bulk of consolidated exposure is in Interest Rate swaps ($204.6 trillion), followed by FX ($26.5TR), CDS ($15.2 trillion), and Equity and Commodity with $1.6 and $1.4 trillion, respectively. And that's your definition of Too Big To Fail right there: the biggest banks are not only getting bigger, but their risk exposure is now at a new all time high and up $5.3 trillion from Q1 as they have to risk ever more in the derivatives market to generate that incremental penny of return."

"The problem with bilateral netting is that it is based on one massively flawed assumption, namely that in an orderly collapse all derivative contracts will be honored by the issuing bank (in this case the company that has sold the protection, and which the buyer of protection hopes will offset the protection it in turn has sold). The best example of how the flaw behind bilateral netting almost destroyed the system is AIG: the insurance company was hours away from making trillions of derivative contracts worthless if it were to implode, leaving all those who had bought protection from the firm worthless, a contingency only Goldman hedged by buying protection on AIG. And while the argument can further be extended that in bankruptcy a perfectly netted bankrupt entity would make someone else whole on claims they have written, this is not true, as the bankrupt estate will pursue 100 cent recovery on its claims even under Chapter 11, while claims the estate had written end up as General Unsecured Claims which as Lehman has demonstrated will collect 20 cents on the dollar if they are lucky."

"The point of this detour being that if any of these four banks fails, the repercussions would be disastrous. And no, Frank Dodd's bank "resolution" provision would do absolutely nothing to prevent an epic systemic collapse."
The Link
 
Finally, a post of substance regarding JPM and risk. Interesting, though I don't buy a lot of it. A lot of anecdotal stuff and the bottom part is obvious; smaller banks - large regionals included - do not have the capital wherewithal to support mark to market movements of derivatives. JPM does not have a huge energy derivatives desk. There is no interest rate derivatives bomb about to go off. This article doesn't really tell you anything about the trade that lost JPM money here.
 
Yes, because "too big to fail" institutions are a perversion of capitalism. When no right-thinking politician would allow such institutions to fail because they would plunge the economy into depression, there is something very wrong.
I just read that something like 15-17 financial institutions control 52% of the current market. All the rest combined are less than half the total. When they make big mistakes, it takes the whole economy down. Somehow, this has to be fixed.
 
Click on the link below accuratehorn to get a better understanding in a graphic representation of just how much these banks are exposed with derivatives. It's over the top, but does give a comparison to see how large their exposure is. Face it, they can't make money with ZIRP implemented by the FED, so they are making money in other ways: financial engineering, if you will.

9 Biggest Banks' Derivative Exposure - $228.72 Trillion
The Link
 
Why is there no clamor to regulate deratives? SInce things have pretty much gone to hell in a handbasket with the repeal of Glass-Steagal, why wouldn't the public support it being reinstituted?
 
I suppose like any monopolistic business which has been "broken up," like the big railroads in the 19th century, Standard Oil, whatever. Create smaller pieces which cannot dominate commerce to the point where there isn't really a free market.
I doubt this will be easy or even possible, but the question posed was SHOULD this happen.
 

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