Ray McGovern destroys Obama's view on terrorism

Interesting article, some of it makes sense but not all

particularly the idea that their hatred of US is due only to our policy with Israel.
They hate our policy with Israel so much that even though we also give hundreds of millions to the PA alone
yet their hatred of our pilicy is so deep that after the BO visit to Afghainstan they went out and killed 9 muslims?

o k
 
I don't have time to read the entire article now, but can see its very valid points centered on Helen Thomas' query.

I think politicians want to avoid the question about why terrorists do what they do because it lifts the issue from the lowest common denominator of Good vs Evil. To answer the question in any intelligent way means you have to enter a gray area where, egads!, some US policies may come into question.

If you drift into that gray area, you're now humanizing the enemy. Do that, and you're "soft" on terrorism. Political suicide.

I'm reminded of Rumsfeld's rumination about trying to find a "metric" for measuring the effectiveness of our policies back when he was Secretary of Defense. Lightweights hooted at his thoughts on this, I thought he was on to something.

You can go back to the wars against Communism for similar mindsets. We got stuck in the quagmire of Vietnam because nobody could ask the question Thomas asked of Obama. "What are the North Vietnamese reasons for the war?"

They're commies. They're evil. We must fight them. Everyone will love us for "liberating" their homelands from these "bad guys."

In our system, you have to play to Idiot World or you're out of office.

I would have preferred for the Dems who lay down for Bush's invasion of Iraq to have stood their ground and taken the short term consequences of maybe losing their offices. But they were too weak to do that. In their place, I like to think I would have slept better losing office over principle than holding office at any cost.

If any office holder starts talking about trying to "understand" or "empathize" with any aspect of the "bad guys" motivations, they are doomed. We prefer jingoism.

It's a cycle that repeats and repeats.
 
He did not say "provoked a long time ago". He said "unprovoked".

I'm sure he's a very smart guy but he's also a revisionist.
 
BI

see if this is easier for you to understand.
If their hatred of us is only because of our policy toward Israel why did they go out and kill 9 muslims in protest of BO's visit?
 
The Arab/Muslim world's disgust towards the US is not just about US foreign policy w/r/t Israel, it has to do with US foreign policy throughout the Middle East in general, a point that the US government concedes rather openly.
 
And Uniformed, the USA has given billions to those dictators, not ubeknownst to the citzens under the foot of those dictators, for DECADES.

So once again, US foreign intervention (hmmmm someone has been talking alot about that over the last 4 years to the laughs and snickers of many) directly relates to the hatred and animosity felt by Muslims toward the US.

Any way you slice it, the US is/has been actively involved in the misery of Muslims in the Middle East for many decades now.

So Ray McGovern, who isnt just some blogger mind you, is correct.

By unprovoked, Arabs and Muslims didnt ask for the US to start funding and supporter thugs and dictators in their own countries 50, 60 years ago. You want to go back in History Horn6721, lets go back in history.
 
no 03
if the theory isthat the hatred is because of our policy toward Israel is correct ( and I am not saying it is not correct ) why did they kill 9 muslims in protest of BO's visit?

Isn't there something really stupid or evil when you kill your own countrymen to protest another country?
 
I'd rather discuss football with you so I have little motivation discussing this topic unless you have a way of incorporating Nick Rose into it. Is he jewish?
 
BI
so how does killing their fellow muslims get back at Us?
How did killing 9 fellow muslims show protest against BO's visit?
 
BI?
It was the "terrorists" themselves that decalred the killing of the 9 fellow muslims were in protest of BO's visit.
But if you didn't know that I can see why you ciukdn't answer the question.

I just find it amazing that some people , like in your link, say the islamists hatred of US is due to our policy with Israel
so to show that hatred and to protest a POTUS visit they go out and kill theor own countrymen.
 
There is no such thing as the "muslim/arab world" and there never has been, anymore than there is a "european/christian" world. The arabs and muslims are split more ways than a field full of broomcorn.

The schisms, vendettas, wildly different cultures and histories guarantee that they are largely fractured most of the time. Al Q's huge mission has been to unite them by focusing on an "Other" they could all hate. Which is why Bush and O have consistently tried to deflect such attempts by pointing to areas of common interest and insisting that Islam is a religion of peace, etc.

David Maraniss's new book on O points out that some of O's best friends in college were Pakistanis. He appears to understand the thinking of foreign nationals better than any president we have ever had; add it to his years growing up in Javanese society and his mom's anthropological adventures and you have a president who may be perfectly placed to parry the nutcases in the middle east. Or at least the ones who are trying to herd us towards a nice cliff.

As for the Iraq war, we should judge our governments by what they accomplish, not what they hoped to do. W did not set out to make Iran the kingpin of the Persian Gulf by attacking Iraq. He got rid of a tyrant but an awful lot of people got killed in the process and our worst enemy in the neighborhood ended up on top.

Playing chess one move at a time is not smart geopolitics.

So far, O's only bad step in the area that I notice is that he does not always seem to understand that Afghanistan doesn't have a government as we understand the concept here in These States.
 
I believe terrorists, or even non-terrorists in the countries that the US occupy for that matter, hatred of the US policies is even simpler than discussed already. Think abou it for a while and think about if you had a foreign military currently occupying the U.S., killing your citizens (collateral damage of course), dictating policy and telling US citizens that we are here to liberate you, would you be pissed and fight back or lay down and say to yourself "wow, they are really here to help turn or country into a democracy"?

Why does the US always have to be the policemen of the world? And if the US citizens really believe the US foreign policy line that it's about building democracies around the world, well I guess I don't know what to say. Follow the money trail and that will tell you all you need to know as to the reason for "nation building". Telling the world we are trying to build democracies is a convenient excuse for ramroding our foreign policy on other nations, where political reasons or natural resources are the prize, pure and simple.

I don't condone terrorism and the US military needs to kick *** when provoked and when there are legitimate reasons to go to war (e.g., WWII), but the US has been blinded by their own foreign policies for decades now by inciting revolutions around the world in different countries and then objectively wondering why "terrorists" hate us. **** I would begin to loathe foreign militaries that occupied my country and turned it upside too.
 
The author implies that Obama and Napolitano are ‘tiptoeing’ around the “root causes” of Muslim hatred, and then he does his own tapdance with this detailed, specific solution: “…but there will be no diminution in the endless cycles of violence unless legitimate grievances are addressed on all sides. “

Gee, I wonder why our decision-makers haven’t thought of this simple solution?

If our officials aren’t honest about acknowledging the underlying problem, then the author isn’t honest about his underlying, implied solution: abandon Israel.

In reply to:
Click to expand...
 
If by abandon Israel, you mean let them act of their own volition and stay out of their affairs too, then yes.

But there is no secret that the US foreign policy in the Middle East, excluding Israel completely, is atrocious, and has been for decades, and this is why they hate us. Not for our freedoms.....
 
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