Prayer

Dionysus

Dionysus

Idoit
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What do you think is the nature of prayer? How do you presume prayer to work, practically speaking?

It seems to me that prayer is an appeal to influence a mostly indifferent deity to do something it might not otherwise do, but could be persuaded to given the right propitiations. It seems like Pascal's Wager: you'll never know if your appeal has made a difference, so you do it just in case.

When you pray, what do you expect? If your answer is that you expect “God's will” to be done, then why did you pray? Wouldn't God's will be done anyway?
 
my view is that once I pray about something, give it to God/put it in his hands so to speak, that it is my turn to take action if action is needed. God moves when I move. I cannot expect doors to open while I sit on my hands. Also my mindset changes to one of gratitude. God heard my prayer...no need to pray about it over an over and over. I get in to thankfulness knowing that His will is best. No is an answer too. There have been many "things" that I wanted, thought it was my destiny. Many of those things did not come to fruition, but something better did. I have faith in that, because I have seen God do that in my life many times and for many others around me. Prayer works. It is about faith and God wants to see that I trust him....not just with a prayer, but with action knowing that he will provide the next stepping stone even when I cannot see what the next step will hold.

Also I focus on what God has willed. He willed love, peace, joy, happiness etc.
 
Admiral, same here.

For example—with respect to prayer in terms of seeking divine intervention or help with something—say someone you care about is very ill and people are praying for her to recover. But within a few days she dies.

From the Christian perspective, was it God's will that she die? If so, what was the purpose of your prayer? Had God not already preordained her death?
 
I've had the same question myself. Most people of western faith would agree that God (or whatever you call him/it) is omnipotent, all-knowing, and infallible.

So he already knows what's on my mind, already has the power to do whatever he wants, and is going to do the "right" thing, whether I ask for it or not. So what difference does it make?

A minister once told me that it isn't necessarily to ask God for anything, even if that's what you're doing, the purpose is to open up the communication lines between you and God. I guess that makes sense.
 
I've wrestled with this a lot as well. I think there are a couple of things that I've come up with.

First, prayer is for the person praying as much as anything else. It is an expression of faith and an exercise in not only showing a dependence/reliance on God, but on simply communicating to God. Apply it to our own lives - sure our family knows we love them, and they often know exactly what we need, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't tell them those things.

The idea that if "God already knows what I need, why doesn't he just do it without me asking", we're putting God in the position of basically being our servant, at our disposal. Prayer isn't an ordering service - we're the servants, not God. And while God loves us and cares for us, and I believe does answer prayers, I think prayer is an important tool to remind us that at the end of the day, "ASK and it shall be given to you".

Second, God's will/mind can be changed, and we see examples of this in scripture. Just because God's plan currently calls for certain things, that doesn't mean he won't change his mind. He may or may not, but we'll never know until we ask.

In terms of praying for someone who is sick or dying, the best answer I can come up with is that in the end, we're all going to die. We all have our time, and in many cases our prayers for that person are more selfish in nature than anything. We don't want the person to die because we want them to still be with us. Nothing wrong with that, but I think it's hard for us to keep in perspective that even a person who's lived a very short life as opposed to a very long life pales in comparison to eternity.

The bottom line is that a Christian is commanded to "let your petitions be known unto God." I know God hears, and I know that He has a much broader perspective on things than I do, so His answer is going to be a lot more "big picture" than my viewpoint on any particular issue.
 
Prayer is, first and foremost, an act of submission. There's a reason why people genuflect, or look down, when they pray. It is a gesture of submission to the power of God, but also of our will to his.

I think the question is getting at the idea that a variance of wills, between man and God, must always resolve to the will of God and not to the will of man. But I can imagine that God is able to divine multiple paths that can lead to the same ultimate outcome that he wishes to bring about. And I can further imagine that prayer, the sincerity and persistence of it, might persuade a loving God to choose one path over another, so long as it does not contradict that ultimate outcome.

Only God can weigh the future. He is omnipotent, which is to say that he is free. But freedom, in the truest sense, is always attended by the restraints laid upon us by some further, or higher, end. In other words, it's not as if omnipotence means that God can simply do whatever he feels like doing. His actions are restrained by his sense of the ultimate justice toward which our fate is directed, and toward which there may be multiple paths. Or, to put it another way, we can imagine that there are an infinite number of ways to get to Dallas, but that is not to say that any and all routes must end up in Dallas.

God is free to act on his omnipotence and will, but this freedom is always attended by the restraint of justice.
 
That view asserts a definition of omniscience that is incompatible with the freedom that omnipotence demands.

But the question asked how people, and how Christians in particular, conceived of prayer. Is it in the direction of your interest to contest the validity of our views? And if so, why?
 
Praise
Repent
Ask
Yield

It is as much a conversation as anything. If you talk too much you can't hear anything being said.
 
my view is that the "hearing" is meditation...the listening.

think of all the prayers that God hears. What prayers make Him "smile" the most? IMO, people who ask God who can they help. I promise if you wake up and sincerely ask God, "who can help today, how can I be of service, put them in my path". He will put them in your path because every morning people all over the world are waking up at rock bottom saying, "Lord help me". God brings these people together...I have seen this many times in my life over and over again...this is what has built my faith. So my "listening" is empathy/intuition for other people I might encounter throughout the day. Really stepping into someone elses world and watching the walls come down is a beautiful experience.
 
The power of prayer, if it has any, is the peace of mind it imparts upon the petitioner. If you think that your deity is listening and cares then you'll feel better, cope better, get through rough spots in your life better.

As far as some deity actually answering your prayers? Anybody can rationalize anything: god said yes, god said no, god always answers prayers. Whatever you want to believe you can make up an explanation for it.
 
You should try it for a year and see what happens. But hey I do not believe in unicorns and I do not go around trying to convience anyone they do not exist.
 
Religion permeates a lot of our lives, and is cited as THE reason why people do many things (good and bad), so can you really begrudge those of us who don't believe trying to poke at it to see if any of it makes sense?
__________________________________________________

Praying in a lot of ways is therapeutic. In some cases it serves the same purpose as a non-religious person who sees a therapist. We all know the answers to our silly worry's but religious people seek it from the inside whereas someone else may want to receive advice from someone else. Religious people do the same as well. If you pray for 10 million dollars, you have as much chance of having the prayer answered as the guy who holds a lottery ticket....and the person wanting that prayer answered will need a lottery ticket to have the prayer answered.....people will always do bad things, a so-called religious person who happens to do a bad thing is not operating within the tenets of that religion. I do not know of any religion that promotes evil or immoral acts. People are people. They are flawed. A lot of people will always act in their best interest whether its the wife of the deacon that is more concerned with her status and position to those around her, the extemist in Utah that holds the minor children of his followers in his bedroom, the muslim extremist that uses terror, death and fear or the progressive that pushes his agenda because its in the "best interest of the children," when all he is really seeking is power. Religion is based on faith as are many scientific theories. Although some would believe it can, science does not provide all the answers. The universe is a vast, dark place that is still a complete mystery. I believe religion has its place.
 
I'm trying to understand what people really think is happening with prayer, and how they think it fits with the biblical references. Look at some of the statements attributed to Jesus, for example:

Matthew 7:7
Ask and it will be given to you.

Matthew 21:22
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Taking these verses on face value Jesus is saying just ask for what you want, have faith that it's yours, and you'll get it. Some will probably argue that this is not what he meant, but the words are unambiguous.

So what is a Christian to believe about prayer, and should there be some expectations about its efficacy? I think there's a very practical aspect to be addressed here, not just some vague mystical digressions about submission, dialogue and such. I think these are fair questions given certain promises made in the gospels.
 
Oh so this is another one of those, your God isn't real, things. Okay. You dressed it up a little better this time. At least for a while.
 
I see prayer and meditation as an attempt to make contact with the unity of the universe/God. It lets you let go of the rigid boundaries of the ego and expand your consciousness to try and touch the divine. Physiologically it ultimately lowers the autonomic nervous system arousal, slows the heart rate, lowers the blood pressure and supports the immune system.
 
I wonder why none of the Christians have addressed the verses I mentioned where Jesus says, in essence, you can have anything you ask for. Because clearly this is not the case. Much has been asked for and not received.

Was Jesus misquoted, or maybe misunderstood? Did he lack the authority to make such a statement?

If the gospels are an accurate accounting of events, then it's obvious that Jesus made some declarations that are simply not true.
 
Coel, he doesn't really want answers. He is trying to proselytize and this is the best way he knows how. Any attempt to interpret the Bible to show there is not an error will be asserted to be "trying too hard" or interpreting for "devotional purposes" or just not being able to accept that there are such "obvious" errors.
 
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