Players should be part of all-defense team vote

[Statalyzer]

Maybe not solely the players because of the politics involved of "I don't like so-and-so, so I'll just not vote him", but players also know which guys do the best job guarding them better than the coaches do. Right now, every single year, the teams are slanted far too heavily in favor of guys who are superstars because of their offensive prowess, and guys like Battier, Ibaka, Noah, Hill, and Deng are voted too low even though they can all make a big difference in a game without scoring a point. James and Bryant aren't bad defenders, but they aren't the top two wing defenders in the NBA by any means either. Kobe maybe used to be, but 2011 Kobe is not.

I think the team (voted on by coaches) looks more like a fan voting poll would look than it resembles what a player-voted poll would look.

For what it's worth, DPOY is also a flawed award but for different reasons. It's slanted far too heavily towards post players, partially because they accumulate blocks more easily, but I don't mind that too much b/c those are a big part of playing defense. But also for some reason, rebounds/game seems to be a huge part of the award which is ridiculous because they aren't part of playing defense per se (especially offensive rebounds, but even grabbing defensive boards is not the same as playing D). Only 2 perimeter players and only 1 pure guard has won DPOY in the past 23 years.

 

[The Greatest]

i agree with your general point, but don't lump lebron in with kobe.

i don't know if lebron is the absolute best defensive SF in the game (iguodala is very good and doesn't carry the same amount of offense and can focus on D more) but he is very good at defense. and whether it's shutting down his own man or playing help defense, he has a huge effect. i know some article was looking at a few measures of D including counterpart PER (how much your man produces), team defensive plus/minus, and then play-by-play defensive efficiency from Synergy Sports (which actually tracks every single play) and lebron was about as good as there was. they did it on a scale of 0-100 and he was a 97 i believe. and given the large minutes he plays, his overall D effect is very large.


now kobe being on the 1st team is and out and out joke. it was a joke 3 or 4 years ago for anyone who watched a lot of lakers games. on any one possession could he play good D? yeah. maybe even one game he was particularly motivated. maybe. but did he even remotely commit on every possession or guard the other team's best player? no. he liked to gamble a lot and wasn't very good at it. now that he's lost so much athleticism, plays fewer minutes, and really has to save his legs for offense, he belongs nowhere near a defensive team. kobe now has the same number of defensive 1st teams as MJ and payton, which is ridiculous.

 

[Statalyzer]

You're right, LeBron is currently a lot better on defense than Kobe is, but I still don't think he's the #1 SF defender (and top 2-3 perimeter defenders) in the NBA. But he's a way bigger star than guys like Battier and Iguodala. FWIW I don't understand why Memphis doesn't start Battier, that guy's D is too good for him to not start and finish the game on the other team's top outside scoring threat. Also FWIW, I'm pretty suspicious of any formula that claims to be an accurate defensive ranking.

Jared Jeffries is another really underrated defender - not sure if he deserved to be All-NBA, but the thing is that he probably would be at least 2nd team if he were putting up 15-20 points on a regular basis because then people would pay more attention to him. He might be the most versatile defender in the NBA today.

Oddly enough, there are 3 guys I can think of who are well-known for their offense but don't seem to get enough credit for playing good D as well - Paul Pierce, Manu Ginobili and Caron Butler. Granted, Butler's been hurt, but even so, he never seemed to get any defensive credit even before then.

Seems silly to me that Pippen, Artest, Bowen, Payton, Christie, all of whom were probably the best perimeter defender in the NBA for 2-3 seasons (or more), have a combined 2 DPOY awards. Iguodala will probably be joining that list in a few years - and guys like Grant Hill or Tayshaun Prince who were one of the top outside defenders for quite some time, but never were THE guy, definitely don't have a chance, whereas similar post players (Camby most notably) can win by being one of the best for awhile and then waiting until its their turn.

While I'm complaining about awards, Westbrook being the 2nd team all-NBA PG (at the same level of guard play as Dwyane Wade?) over Chris Paul was pretty ridiculous as well.