Plan' B's failure a disaster for the GOP

[Lake_Travis_Horn]

As a Tea Party-aligned conservative, I'm coming to like the prospect of the fiscal cliff. It's the best deal we're going to get. Spending will be cut significantly. Not in all cases the spending I'd like to see cut, but at least there are real cuts. Taxes go up on everyone, so it makes it clear that if you want all this stuff, you're going to have to pay for it.

One irony of these tax increases is that even though the tax rates on upper income earners go up the most, they will see the least increase in actual taxes paid. They have the most flexibility and will either shift income, defer income, or just not earn it at all. The middle class, on the other hand, will change little and will just pay a higher tax bill.

 

[Gadfly]

This is a cool graph to dig through.

The Link

almost 75% is spent on the big 3 - Defense / Social Security-Fed Pensions / Health Care.

You want to really take Fed spending down, you'll have to hit those three. You tell me if even one of those three getting cut will get supported by both sides in the Congress. None? I guess they'll just keep growing then.

This is a Congress problem - not an Executive problem. Unless you think the President has some magic power to make Congress do something to make a budget - look at you history. Bush didn't have much luck with Congressional budget passing either.

Congress is crippled by indecision and concern over their personal interests with constituents who will be motivated to oust them by their left/right wing media outlets. Media is being monopolized by partisanship from both sides. Nobody really watches or wants an unbiased and balanced news anymore. They want their team being cheered for and their opponents vilified via ad hominem and straw man attacks. Polarization and lack of compromise is the result.

Our government is screwed, and it's our own ******* fault.

I see it from many on this board. The other side is just morons. They are stupid rubes being manipulated by the other's media while I spend 90% looking at media I agree with - but I'm not being brainwashed. A large portion of both sides see each other this way. They paint a mental picture of the other side which is made of the most extreme examples (who are idiots) without real concern for an honest debate.

These issues are very complex. Something as simple as Hostess going bankrupt can be utilized by both sides to point out the problems of the other (over zealous unions and executives who gave themselves huge raises after the union voted to lower labor salaries). Did your news outlet report both sides of the Hostess bankruptcy?

I should even check myself - most of the folks on this board are open-minded and not easily manipulated.

 

[Uninformed]

^^^ Upon what is the estimated budget based? If it is a CBO estimate, many of the projected cuts from 2013 to 2017 will not be realized. CBO estimates are only based on the assumptions given.

Historically, defense spending has been pretty flat (although I believe it to be too high). Meanwhile, because of an aging population and because of votes, entitlement spending is growing and at a much faster rate than the economy. Unless entitlement spending is curbed there will be no solution to our economic woes.

 

[Namewithheld]

Uniformed, the first graph says it all.

 

[A. BETTIK]

This is a disaster for John Boehner's speakership. The GOP is already a disaster and hasn't had any true fighting spirit since Lee Atwater.

The fiscal will ultimately hurt comrade Obama more in the long run as his signature turned it into the law of the land.

 

[AustinBat]

After the LIV's re-elected Obama, I no longer think there is a solution. No one seems to want a real one, everyone wants to blame the other side, neither side will address the real problems, and anyone who wants to make an effort is considered to be someone who wants poor people to starve and wants to push Granny off the cliff, or who wants to tax the wealthy out of existence. Everyone is intent on "winning," and to hell with long- term consequences. Pathetic and very sad.

We make make Greece's problems look like peanuts.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Excellent graphs. There's certainly areas in Defense that can be cut, but the practice of putting big cuts in Defense to avoid making any cuts to entitlements is dangerous, stupid, and ineffective. (As one of the graphs indicated, we could eliminate national defense and still have a big deficits.)

The Left tries to rationalize not cutting entitlements by saying that FICA funds Social Security and Medicare and that because it runs a surplus, those programs shouldn't be cut. They'd have a point if FICA actually created a true dedicated fund, but it doesn't. It's all general revenue and has been for decades. Nothing should be off the table.

 

[msdw24]

I don't care what "Plan" they are on right now, if they don't put their foot down on spending and saying no more then they really are clueless.

I vote for the guy/gal that will not spend more than we take in in rev. I could care two craps about all the other garbage (gay marriage, abortion, etc) Just stop the freaking spending!

I hope we don't just go off the cliff, I hope we rocket off this son *****!

 

[gecko]

I believe both sides of this issue actually want to go cliff diving. Taxes get increased (Rs blame Ds) and spending gets cut (Ds blame Rs).

 

[Clean]

Here is a piece about the "negotiations" that went on between Boehner and Obama. Sounds like BO thinks he holds all the cards.

I've said all along that BO wants to go over the cliff. He'll get everything he wants and will probably be able to blame it on the Republicans with the help of the media.

The Link

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[msdw24]

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[Clean]

A friend at work who makes more than 100K, is married to a woman who makes in the same range as he does. Combined, they do not make $250K AGI. He did a quick little calculation of his total 2013 tax bill using the rates that will be in effect if we go over the cliff. He estimates that they will owe an additional $11,700 in federal income taxes next year. He will owe the equivalent of two pretty nice ($500/mo) car payments or one really nice car payment.

This is serious business folks.

 

[Mr. Deez]

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[Mr. Deez]

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