"Pinksourcing" Womens Pay Huffington Post Sketch

[texas_ex2000]

Race, gender, sexual orientation, marital status, religious beliefs, handicap, veteran status, and age should not play a factor in equal pay for equal work. If the Department of Labor and Department of Justice can't effectively enforce anti-discrimination laws...they need to be overhauled. If the forty year old equal pay laws aren't strong enough, Congress needs to change them. There are some gray areas in these laws because making them so comprehensive in an evolving economy would be impossible, but we should strive to always update them. Equal pay for equal work should be a bipartisan issue. I'm also for promoting more paid maternity (and paternity) leave and probably more critically, supporting programs and policies that help single mothers in the workforce.

Now to the video below. It's supposed to be satire. However, Kristen Bell and the Huffington Post don't know the joke is on them. If women were really paid 25% less then equally qualified men for the same work, the entire labor force in every industry would be women. If you are small business owner or a CEO of a huge multinational, why in the World would you intentionally incur 33% more in labor costs by hiring men? How would you explain a labor costs premium of 33% to your Board?

These are formalized principles taught in Economics 301 when describing free markets - TANSAAFL (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch), no-arbitrage, market equilibrium, etc.

It actually is a really good satirical video...unintentionally mocking the $0.78 myth.

 

[texas_ex2000]

And by the f'in way...

I, ME, BAKE THE PUHCAN PIES, KOLACHES, COOKIES, AND CREAM PUFFS FOR THE OFFICE AND PLAN AND ORGANIZE THE BIRTHDAY PARTIES AND BABY SHOWERS!!!

NOT THE WOMEN...TEXAS_EX2000

 

[iatrogenic]

Nailed it again T-ex 2000.

The other aspect of this issue relates to the amount of time on the job. Women are paid less as a group because they take time off to give birth and raise children, which interrupts their career advancement for awhile.

Just like every other issue Democrats raise, however, they never look at the true cause of the discrepancy. They just blame the problem on "discrimination". Simple answers for the simple minded. This also helps the "Us vs. Them" narrative needed for garnering votes.

 

[Horn6721]

Huff post blasted Trump's plan for maternity leave as sexist. If Hill had put the plan forth Huff po would be singing the praises

 

[Seattle Husker]

I'm too lazy to look it up but a female Harvard economist agrees with you to a point. She says the data of the $.78 is accurate but not due to a bias. She points to work flexibility as the primary reason for the gender pay gap. According to her data, women choose to take roles that require less hours, less travel and generally more family friendly. Women more than men will forego the promotion that carries higher demands in hours or travel. Often they'll pause their careers to take care of young children then return to work. This "break" certainly impacts their years of experience and thus earning potential. Do all women make this choice? No but enough to have a heavy influence on the averages. She does say there is a definite gender bias in pay but felt the number was closer to 5-10%. The rest is attributable directly to lifestyle choices.

Which brings up the next point, there is a transition occurring where educated men are making these lifestyle choices rather than their female partner. It's not inconceivable that the gender gap could switch in females favor in a few decades.

 

[Mr. Deez]

And by the f'in way...

I, ME, BAKE THE PUHCAN PIES, KOLACHES, COOKIES, AND CREAM PUFFS FOR THE OFFICE AND PLAN AND ORGANIZE THE BIRTHDAY PARTIES AND BABY SHOWERS!!!

NOT THE WOMEN...TEXAS_EX2000

OK, no offense, but I'm too much man to plan baby showers and birthday parties. Lol. However, I am and always have been the cook of the house (even when I practiced law full time). Nothing wrong with my wife's cooking, but I'm a badass in the kitchen, especially for a dude. When Mrs. Deez has an office party, it's not her baking the cake or cookies. And I've gone further than that. She has had me make big Mexican food feasts for her colleagues and friends. And we don't have any sources for decent Mexican food, so that means I make my own tortillas and salsas. And trust me, you see some interesting looks when people rave about the tamales and find out some white guy made them. I make more than Mexican food, but since that's so hard to come by in Germany, that's what I most enjoy making here.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Back on topic, the equal pay issue is BS. It's not BS because sex discrimination doesn't happen. It's BS because it's a political ruse designed to harness the power of identity politics to a different issue that has little to do with equal pay.

Failing to pay equal pay for equal work is illegal and has been for years. In fact, taking any adverse employment action because of sex is illegal and has been for years. The Equal Pay Act of 1963 and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 both create civil remedies empowering women (and even men) to sue employers who violate the acts and collect significant remedies against them. Furthermore, the EEOC can bring suit to enforce the Acts as well.

The disparities in pay have a lot more to do with life choices that women and men make than with sex discrimination. Every fair-minded person knows this, but because it's driven by free will and therefore doesn't piss women off, Democrats rarely acknowledge it. Instead, they blab about our workplaces being like a "Mad Men" episode in order to create an illusion of rampant sex discrimination, which does piss women off and motivate them to vote accordingly.

If you look at the specifics of how they want to address this issue, Democrats are very light on specifics, even if you look for them. They passed the Lily Ledbetter Act, and frankly, it was overblown by everybody. Democrats hyped it as a groundbreaking law, and Republicans demonized it as an open door to a mess of frivolous lawsuits. Both were wrong. If you read the bill, it actually dealt with a pretty narrow issue that isn't anywhere near as consequential as it was made out to be. Their other suggestions (like the right to ask about coworkers' pay, requiring employers to report pay based on sex, etc.) are also pretty peripheral.

I've long thought about what the real issue is, and I think I found it while listening to a podcast of the Ezra Klein Show. (Klein is a smug, partisan liberal who often appears on cable shows. However, when he's on his own show, he's much less so, and he's an excellent interviewer of both conservative and liberal guests.) He was interviewing a sociologist, who had spent a lot of time interviewing (and later writing a book) white, working class people in Louisiana to try to find out what motivates and worries them. She also tried to figure out issues on which they and the Left could find common ground. The issue of equal pay came up as such an example, and she mentioned that a big economic battle related to equal pay is over who controls an employee's time and how much of it an employer has the right to demand and control.

The real factor that's causing women to be paid less is time. They take time off of work a lot more than men to deal with personal and family matters, and they seek jobs that make this easier. That's going to be limiting when it comes to pay, and it's going to impact how employers value an employee. If you have two employees who are equally competent but one leaves at at 5 p.m. every night and has to take off work several times per year and the other works until 8 p.m. and virtually never misses work, the latter employee is going to be more valuable and get paid more.

So what are Democrats exploiting the equal pay non-issue in order to accomplish? They can't do anything meaningful to really close the pay gap (which the sociologist basically acknowledged), but they can give women (and men) their time back by requiring paid leave and paid vacations. Those (like me) with long memories will recall that back in 1993, the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) was enacted with the promise that it would never lead to a paid leave program. In fact, liberals scoffed at the slippery slope argument, and as usual, the slippery slope argument was right.

 

[militaryhorn]

Not to derail the thread but since it has to deal with equality for women, I am definitely a fan of this idea. So much so that I am 100% behind women shaving their heads when they get to basic training like I had too. I am also in favor of them having the same PT (Physical Training) standards as men do while in the service, i.e. same number of push-ups, sit-ups, and mile and a half run times. Seems like the right thing to do.

 

[Horns11]

Those (like me) with long memories will recall that back in 1993, the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) was enacted with the promise that it would never lead to a paid leave program. In fact, liberals scoffed at the slippery slope argument, and as usual, the slippery slope argument was right.

I guess I remember more of the other side. GHWB digging his heels in, arguably costing him votes in the 1992 election. Orrin Hatch and Strom Thurmond wailing about businesses shuttering their windows because keeping an employee with a new baby on the books was bad for dollars and cents.

Plus, we don't have a paid leave program... yet. I guess if you consider what "the new norm" has become over the last 23 years, the question we should be asking is whether we want to be like every other 1st world country, or just stick to what has made America great. I honestly don't mind if people say the latter; just know that it might change in the future.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I guess I remember more of the other side. GHWB digging his heels in, arguably costing him votes in the 1992 election. Orrin Hatch and Strom Thurmond wailing about businesses shuttering their windows because keeping an employee with a new baby on the books was bad for dollars and cents.

Plus, we don't have a paid leave program... yet. I guess if you consider what "the new norm" has become over the last 23 years, the question we should be asking is whether we want to be like every other 1st world country, or just stick to what has made America great. I honestly don't mind if people say the latter; just know that it might change in the future.

I remember that side too. Hyperbole and scaremongering are common in politics, and the GOP does it all the time. Like I mentioned, they did it with the Ledbetter Act.

And for the record, I'm not saying paid leave is necessarily a bad thing. We'd have to look at the specifics of it to really judge a proposal. However, either way, it should be sold to the public and debated on its own merits, not intermingled with a side issue that's not even a real issue.

 

[texas_ex2000]

And for the record, I'm not saying paid leave is necessarily a bad thing. We'd have to look at the specifics of it to really judge a proposal. However, either way, it should be sold to the public and debated on its own merits, not intermingled with a side issue that's not even a real issue.

Paid leave is something you can sell to everyone.

Liberals - Like it for women's health and women's employment
Conservatives - Like it because it supports nuclear families values
Large Corporations - Maternity and paternity leave are effectively moving to an industry standard right now anyways. And they're a marketing necessity...a corporation would be dumb from a PR and branding perspective to complain about these programs

The group with the biggest concern, IMHO, are small business owners who can't afford it. A policy I would support, isn't a government mandated program - but maybe something like a tax credit for small businesses with employees and revenues below a certain amount. The credit can be laddered for the amount of maternity leave accrued for that business to promote more generous leave programs.

The real factor that's causing women to be paid less is time. They take time off of work a lot more than men to deal with personal and family matters, and they seek jobs that make this easier. That's going to be limiting when it comes to pay, and it's going to impact how employers value an employee. If you have two employees who are equally competent but one leaves at at 5 p.m. every night and has to take off work several times per year and the other works until 8 p.m. and virtually never misses work, the latter employee is going to be more valuable and get paid more.

This describes my colleague and friend down to a t. I hardly take any vacation, and I'm in the office every day early and one of the last people to leave. She's just as competent as I am, but she has two kids to take care of, and she enjoys her vacations and three day weekends with her sorority sisters and crew teammates.

I will also say in my company, the fact some women were on maternity leave for 12 weeks - an entire quarter, plays no factor in their review for promotion. In other words, I worked 4 quarters and was evaluated equally with someone that worked 3 quarters.

You know, it's not fair. It's a freaking crock to be honest. I could complain, but I want my colleagues and friends to have that maternity leave. That's important in the workspace that their head is right, it's important to the baby, and it's important for families. Better to give women maternity leave than consider an abortion. Better to give women maternity leave and promote a culture of responsible parenting than to normalize lazily having somebody else raise your children.

Oh, one other thing that keeps me focused at work...I don't worry about how much money other people make. Quaint, I know.

 

[texas_ex2000]

If the Huff Post care about womens issues, then they should probably spend more time and money discussing rape mobs, sex slavery, genital mutilation, honor killings, etc that are prevalent in the Middle East and Africa. REAL womens issues...not confusion by 1st world feminists over a few statistics on labor in the richest country on the planet.

This is played as just another divisive tactic. If they don't agree with you, they're deplorable.

 

[Mr. Deez]

If the Huff Post care about womens issues, then they should probably spend more time and money discussing rape mobs, sex slavery, genital mutilation, honor killings, etc that are prevalent in the Middle East and Africa. REAL womens issues...not confusion by 1st world feminists over a few statistics on labor in the richest country on the planet.

That doesn't feed the narrative that white, Christian men suck, so they're not going to do that.

 

[Seattle Husker]

If the Huff Post care about womens issues, then they should probably spend more time and money discussing rape mobs, sex slavery, genital mutilation, honor killings, etc that are prevalent in the Middle East and Africa. REAL womens issues...not confusion by 1st world feminists over a few statistics on labor in the richest country on the planet.

Isn't it possible to care about both?

 

[Mr. Deez]

Isn't it possible to care about both?

It is, but the issues he raised are mostly ignored. If someone actually cared about them (as opposed to caring about reinforcing a convenient political narrative), he or she would cover those issues and with a realistic sense of moral proportion. If you engage in wage discrimination, you're a jackass, but you're not a monster. If you're a genital mutilator or a rapist (or tolerate either), you're a monster. You should get ripped more often and much harder.

 

[texas_ex2000]

Isn't it possible to care about both?

If you, a real liberal, were the HuffPo Managing Editor - of course!

Unfortunately, the faux anti-intellectual hypocrtical Liberalism that runs HP is quickly becoming normalized.

 

[Seattle Husker]

I don't read HuffingtonPost but know it was originally a very liberal webzine before AOL purchased it. A 5-second Google search shows that HuffingtonPost has covered "genital mutilation" often making this argument pretty dumb. Argue whether HuffingtonPost over-emphasized the pay gap issue but any argument that they don't care about women's issues globally seem misrepresented.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I don't read HuffingtonPost but know it was originally a very liberal webzine before AOL purchased it. A 5-second Google search shows that HuffingtonPost has covered "genital mutilation" often making this argument pretty dumb. Argue whether HuffingtonPost over-emphasized the pay gap issue but any argument that they don't care about women's issues globally seem misrepresented.

I'll sit corrected to a point. They do cover the FGM issue, but there is a distinct difference in their coverage of that issue as opposed to alleged equal pay issue. The latter discussion is far more politically charged. In fact, I did a search for "equal pay" and read several articles, none of which even mentioned that failing to pay equally for equal work was illegal and actionable. And of course, they were loaded with vitriol and partisan rhetoric (neither of which were found in the FGM articles). If you discuss the issue and don't mention that, then your purpose is political deception, not a serious discussion or even advocacy.