Needing a regulatory time-out
- Thread starter ProdigalHorn
- Start date
Bevo Incognito
5,000+ Posts
Well that's just it, isn't it?
I'm not in favor of over-regulation but the mantra of "jobs jobs jobs" and "we must compete against the Chinese and the Indians" doesn't work for me if it comes at the expense of the environment.
Citing a study about the impact of regulations on jobs doesn't work for me when the study is funded by the people/corporations that would be regulated. I'm pretty sure that, if you asked the owners of the huge petro-chemical plants along the Texas coast about the impact of regulation, they'd say "it costs jobs."
Likewise, regulating the food industry in the U.S. no doubt costs jobs.
And what's with tall buildings and fire escapes and fire suppression systems ----- something that I happen to know a little bit about. Those things cost money and, therefore, jobs.
Mandatory air bags in cars make our cars more expensive and less competitive, costing jobs. Sure, they save lives. Same with catalytic converters. They cost jobs. Of course, they also make the air that all of us breathe healthier, but so what?
China is on the verge of several environmental catastrophes. I had a friend who visited recently and came back saying that he could not believe the air pollution, ground pollution, and water pollution. He brought back some tap water from his hotel in Beijing, had it tested, and it was filled with arsenic, heavy metals, and "solid particulates," whatever that is. But, hey, they have jobs, right?
I have no idea about the wood boilers in Ms. Collins particular example. But if the proposed regulations benefit the environmental quality (and therefore the overall health of her constituents) of Maine, might they not be worth it?
Our government is already for sale to the highest bidder. A lack of regulation on those who are doing the bidding may not be the best thing for the rest of us, no matter how many jobs it creates.
I'm not in favor of over-regulation but the mantra of "jobs jobs jobs" and "we must compete against the Chinese and the Indians" doesn't work for me if it comes at the expense of the environment.
Citing a study about the impact of regulations on jobs doesn't work for me when the study is funded by the people/corporations that would be regulated. I'm pretty sure that, if you asked the owners of the huge petro-chemical plants along the Texas coast about the impact of regulation, they'd say "it costs jobs."
Likewise, regulating the food industry in the U.S. no doubt costs jobs.
And what's with tall buildings and fire escapes and fire suppression systems ----- something that I happen to know a little bit about. Those things cost money and, therefore, jobs.
Mandatory air bags in cars make our cars more expensive and less competitive, costing jobs. Sure, they save lives. Same with catalytic converters. They cost jobs. Of course, they also make the air that all of us breathe healthier, but so what?
China is on the verge of several environmental catastrophes. I had a friend who visited recently and came back saying that he could not believe the air pollution, ground pollution, and water pollution. He brought back some tap water from his hotel in Beijing, had it tested, and it was filled with arsenic, heavy metals, and "solid particulates," whatever that is. But, hey, they have jobs, right?
I have no idea about the wood boilers in Ms. Collins particular example. But if the proposed regulations benefit the environmental quality (and therefore the overall health of her constituents) of Maine, might they not be worth it?
Our government is already for sale to the highest bidder. A lack of regulation on those who are doing the bidding may not be the best thing for the rest of us, no matter how many jobs it creates.
Rex Kramer
1,000+ Posts
Rex Kramer
1,000+ Posts
"short-term" = un erectión de strawman.
majorwhiteapples
5,000+ Posts
There is a fine line for Regulation, the hard part is finding that line.
My opinion is that right now it is way out of control.
I believe a Department like the EPA or FDA should be non-partisian. It should be what is in the best interest of the entire sphere of the United States of America.
What has happened in the past and both sides are guilty of it is payback your cronies or watching their backs kinda situation.
It is not all about he environment, as has been pointed out a bunch of that is agenda driven.
Things like EPA and FDA should not be run by political appointees.
My opinion is that right now it is way out of control.
I believe a Department like the EPA or FDA should be non-partisian. It should be what is in the best interest of the entire sphere of the United States of America.
What has happened in the past and both sides are guilty of it is payback your cronies or watching their backs kinda situation.
It is not all about he environment, as has been pointed out a bunch of that is agenda driven.
Things like EPA and FDA should not be run by political appointees.
Rex Kramer
1,000+ Posts
I am just guessing here but I bet to the 14 MILLION out of work and the 15 million underemployed and the however many million who will lose jobs due to companies not hiring as they wait the next rounds of regs
well to those MILLIONS short term is all they have.
You can always enact regs, how do you give ways of life back ?
well to those MILLIONS short term is all they have.
You can always enact regs, how do you give ways of life back ?
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
In reply to:
Interesting article in WSJ that says other branches of the gov't AND some inside the Wh are questioning the EPA blast of regs. from link
"The Environmental Protection Agency claims that the critics of its campaign to remake U.S. electricity are partisans, but it turns out that they include other regulators and even some in the Obama Administration. In particular, a trove of documents uncovered by Congressional investigators reveals that these internal critics think the EPA is undermining the security and reliability of the U.S. electric power supply.Amid these sacrifices on the anticarbon altar, Alaska Republican Lisa Murkowski and several House committees have been asking, well, what happens after as much as 8% of U.S. generating capacity is taken off the grid?The Link
"The Environmental Protection Agency claims that the critics of its campaign to remake U.S. electricity are partisans, but it turns out that they include other regulators and even some in the Obama Administration. In particular, a trove of documents uncovered by Congressional investigators reveals that these internal critics think the EPA is undermining the security and reliability of the U.S. electric power supply.Amid these sacrifices on the anticarbon altar, Alaska Republican Lisa Murkowski and several House committees have been asking, well, what happens after as much as 8% of U.S. generating capacity is taken off the grid?The Link
Bevo Incognito
5,000+ Posts
Rex Kramer
1,000+ Posts
BI, I didn't say you were a PETA supporter.
What really pisses me off is that it seems like we have a choice of stupid underregulation (yes I'm talking about what let BP foul the gulf and the investment banks driving us into a financial abyss building securities they knew were overvalued and were much riskier than buyer could imagine.) Then we have stupid overregulation and it's all over the place from hospitals to the environment. Franklin Roosevelt believed in hiring smart, honest bureaucrats and letting them have their head. It worked getting us out of the depression and defeating the Axis. Somewhere along the line we decided we need mounds of rules that only the lobbyist and paid off politicians understand. Honest business has to run across a plowed field while those for whom the rules are written have an easy path to riches. Damn I hate it.
RK-
fire escapes aren't for salamanders, nor seat belts, nor airbags etc. He's talking about protecting people.
Our country, our economy has shown time and time again that it can adapt to gradual and known regulatory reform. The story above no doubt leaves out much of the pertinent details about the reform, preferring instead to go with hyperbolic statements regarding jobs lost. Of course the other side is guilty of the same stuff when they cite the unscrupulous corporations that sieze upon every opportunity to skirt regulations and cost LIVES.
do regulations need to make sense, do they need to gradual, do they need to consistent...yes, yes, yes!! But businesses primarily need continuity not necessarily relief from reform.
fire escapes aren't for salamanders, nor seat belts, nor airbags etc. He's talking about protecting people.
Our country, our economy has shown time and time again that it can adapt to gradual and known regulatory reform. The story above no doubt leaves out much of the pertinent details about the reform, preferring instead to go with hyperbolic statements regarding jobs lost. Of course the other side is guilty of the same stuff when they cite the unscrupulous corporations that sieze upon every opportunity to skirt regulations and cost LIVES.
do regulations need to make sense, do they need to gradual, do they need to consistent...yes, yes, yes!! But businesses primarily need continuity not necessarily relief from reform.
PH-
I don't poo-poo the idea that regulation can run amook but I do take issue with the idea that regulation is a dirty word.
In the boiler example, what would make sense is to adopt the new standards, grandfather the existing boilers, and set a reasonable future date for mandatory obsolescence. Sort of the way we handled freon. Regulation can be sensible. Don't paint all regulation with the same brush.
I don't poo-poo the idea that regulation can run amook but I do take issue with the idea that regulation is a dirty word.
In the boiler example, what would make sense is to adopt the new standards, grandfather the existing boilers, and set a reasonable future date for mandatory obsolescence. Sort of the way we handled freon. Regulation can be sensible. Don't paint all regulation with the same brush.
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