Naomi Klien Talk

Love Naomi, great speech. Thanks for the link!
hookem.gif
 
Anyone who claims "occupy wall street is the most important thing going on in the world right now" can't be taken seriously.
 
Gingrich aint a clown to me, but he will likely be president in less than a year. Although the 1% credit card offers might be enough to spur the economy and keep the current President in the running.

If they are going to do the pipeline, do it right.
 
Zork, maybe you didn't watch the video. It ain't the pipeline, it's what will go INTO the pipeline that's the problem.

It's your funeral, not mine. I will be in the ground. But hell, if you want to bet the farm that Fox News, an orymoron, politicians and energy execs are right and scientists are wrong....that's your decision.
 
65, can you summarize? Why is Canadian Oil a problem? Seems to me that the more oil we get from Canada, the less we have to get from Terrorist Sympathizers and the less we have to get from the fragile Ocean environment.
 
It is all on the video. Toward the end, but it's only about 20 minutes in total. If you cannot spare the time...OK.

I cannot state the points as well as Naomi and would make so many typos you would lose interest. The pictures of the mining in Canada are worse than mountain top removal.

You worry about the fragile ocean environment yet you do not understand the crap that will go into the pipeline causes more environmental damage than mountain top removal?

Again, you need to watch the video and you will understand why your statements of support are made without the understanding of the damage it will do. The whole point she is making.
 
Meh. Most sensible alternative we have right now. She's not particularly knowledgeable about oil and natural gas and the reserves available to us in North America. .
 
Right Hooklahoma. Fox news is a great supporter of science. Right, there is no climate change taking place. There is a "debate" going on about Climate Change. All the scientific studies are flawed. That about cover it? The only hysteria i see is in your points. Where did you get anything about Occupy Wall Street from anything I posted on in the video? I don't understand what the hell you're talking about. Do you have any idea what they are doing to put that dirty oil in the Keystone XL pipeline? I'll bet not.

If you can look at the devastating effects of mountain top removal in West Virgina and look at the what is happening in Alberta and simple say that's OK, Than you are right...just keep on watching Fox. Everything is OK.

I would not recommend that you look at the video...move on, there is nothing to see here.
 
The OWS quote is one of the first things i found when i googled Naomi klien. She is the subject of your original post. Do you know what im talking about now?

The video is incoherent and I mean by the most literal definition of the word. She compares the BP spill to silent spring, bags on consumerism, oil exploration of any kind, generalizes about the way men think vs women. Shes all over the board. The video if anything is anti science. It IS important to find out in as specific ways as we can, the EXTENT of the impact of our actions will have on the environment so we can weigh the benefits with the costs. SHe downplays this. Maybe, if i can generalize in the way she does about men, a woman may not be practical enough and too emotional to reason in this manner.

I do find it funny that her beloved canada just bailed on the Kyoto treaty. If the author of that idiotic pact really bought in to the catastrophic nature of AGW, why would they allow developing nations a free pass?
 
She lost me when she declared that "greed" and "hubris" are the underlying factors motivating those who do not subscribe to her views on environmental policy. In my opinion, any constructive dialogue starts with a greater appreciation of others' motivations. Instead, she chooses to accept only the most negative possible views of her opponents. I have no doubt the intentions of environmental advocates like Naomi Klein are sincere and good. It's a shame they so rarely choose to seethe good intentions in their opponents' views.
 
Roger35: We get your disdain for the Republican presidential slate. You don't have to add it to every post you make on West Mall especially when completely irrelevant.

Klien is a hack that rewrites history to fulfill her agenda.
 
old65horn, this woman knows less about Canadian oil sands and the Keystone project than you can believe.

I think you should do some independent study on the two, then come back to argue your stance on the two topics. I'd gladly read what you find out on your own. But, this woman offered very little scientific data to back up her talking points, and offered no solutions to what she discussed. Instead, she spent 20 minutes forming an eloquent diatribe to promote anti-globalism, feminism and use scare tactics to misguide the audience into not noticing the lack of solutions she offered.
 
OK, I'll try to respond to some of the comments without the usual method of isolating the talking points. Before anyone points and laughs, I'll save you the trouble...I don't know how to do it and do not get involved in the back and forth.

Dalhorn1

Maybe you would care to enlighten me about the pros of making a moonscape of part of Canada the size of England. You seem to have a clear understanding of the project. I did not see any facts in your post, just opinions. Care to state a few?

I have seen no facts presented on this thread about how processing oil soaked sands and shipping the stuff to Texas for refining is exactly the kind of thing we need to be doing. We currently import most our our oil from Canada, Venezuela and Mexico, I was not aware that these countries sponsored terrorism. The end product, gasoline and disel, is the same as if you started with sweet light crude. The Canadian oil sands PROCESS emits three times the greenhouse gases. If you can stand to look at what the mining does to the environment, than I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Care to bless us with a little of your in dept knowledge on the subject...so far you have not list a single fact that supports this practice.

Knoxvillehorn, I guess you are the biggest disappointment. I spent the first 11 years of my life in Erwin, so you should care, just a little, about the destructive effects of Mountain top removal for coal. The project in Canada is more destructive. The area being devastate is bigger than the entire state of West Virginia. You should have seen what mountain removal is doing to that state. Knoxville is not in the mountains like Erwin, but you should appreciate the beauty of the Eastern mountain chain.

The overall theme of the video is that risks taken without regard to overall possible effects. That's the why "Silent Spring" is included. As I recall, the book was written to document the spraying of DDT in Hardin county Texas to stop the advance of fire ants. That worked out well didn't it. How about that for a couple of facts Dalhorn1. Do you have anything in your vast, in dept knowledge of the subject you want to bless us with?

I don't know what the long term effects of the BP spill will have on the eco system of the Gulf. I do know that the oil did not go away...it's still there. The Exxon tanker spill in Alaska was over 20 years ago, and the area has not to this day recovered to pre spill levels. I believe the numbers are less than 20% of the species effected have recoved to pre spill levels. You can, to this day, pick up a rock on the shore and a tar like substance will be there. What effect to you think that has on the snails, clams and other basic marine life that supports the larger species?

Hornlahoma, again you complain that all you saw was histeria, yet you disimiss everything, if you watched the video, because she supports the Occupy Wallstreet movement. No hysteria there.

I do understand there is a difference between local or regional and global and there is a difference between weather and climate. What we have experienced in Texas and Oklahoma starting in 2009 is not proof of anything except it's been hot and dry here. I will bet that 2011 will be the hotest year on record globably. What's that make, 7 of the 10 hotest years on record have been in the last 10 years. I am sure that's not a trend to most posters.
 
old65, I'm not discounting nor denying that there is a change to the landscape in Canada. But, from clients I've worked with and land surveys I've reported on, the presentation in the video you supplied does not give a fair account of the lands being used. Much of the land being worked for oil sand is desolate boggy marsh and while technically considered "forest", it would rarely be called that by sampling images of many locations I've seen. As well, while there is ecological damage, the companies do reclaim the lands with programs to restock lands with new forage and vegetation.

Since the author of the presentation provides no facts about shipping oil sands/syncrude to the Gulf, I will refrain from doing so as well, but leave the onus to you to look them up. However, I do believe that recovering more North American energy stores and transferring them thru the MidCon and down to the Gulf can only benefit the US economy. While it won't entirely eliminate the Arab dependency we have, it's still the most viable option we have now. Alternative sources do not have capacity to provide the energy we need now, and have a long way to go before they can. In the meantime, improving techniques for extraction can mitigate the environmental effect, and hopefully provide more economical solutions for our energy demand.

Now, where you mentioned Canada, Mexico, Venezuela and terrorism, I have no idea what your motive was. Nowhere did I mention terrorism and oil in the same breath, and you trying to plant commentary into my opinion is simply farcical.

Finally, I did not intend for my comments toward you to be viewed as hostile or derogatory, but for some reason, that's how I read your retort to me-- "care to bless us with a little bit of your in dept (sic) knowledge"...not the most civil way to continue a discussion if you want respectful replies.

If you want facts to back up my comments, by all means, go look them up. The burden is not for me to present facts, but merely for me to suggest that you not take her word as gospel. Naomi Klien seemed to have omitted facts from her 20 minute presentation; instead, she spent more time inserting commentary and hoping that it be taken as conjecture not to be discounted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

NEW: Pro Sports Forums

Cowboys, Texans, Rangers, Astros, Mavs, Rockets, etc. Pro Longhorns. The Chiefs and that Swift gal. This is the place.

Pro Sports Forums

Recent Threads

Back
Top