Michigan going right-to-work
- Thread starter Mr. Deez
- Start date
Honest question - if Unions are so worried about "freeloading" non-Union workers, can they not structure a labor contract that only covers Union workers? The company would then negotiate labor contracts of non-Union workers separately. If the law does not allow this, then I agree it should be amended.
texas_ex2000
2,500+ Posts
if union leaders were smart or if some of thise thughs cheering the destruction of property would stop and ask themselves, " Are businesses and people leaving or coming into Michigan" or ask themsleves how are things going in state like Wisconsin or Indiana.
they might take a different approach.
I think Michigan had an even worse exodus of people and companies that Calif.
I suspect these people will get what they deserve.
they might take a different approach.
I think Michigan had an even worse exodus of people and companies that Calif.
I suspect these people will get what they deserve.
texas_ex2000
2,500+ Posts
AustinBat
2,500+ Posts
Larry, I've been out of teaching for 8 years, but I never belonged to TSTA, or Texas Federatin of Teachers. There was a third choice - Tx Public Teachers Assn. - that I did join. They offered what I needed - liability insurance. I was never going to fund a "union" which supported candidates I opposed. I used to tell their recruiters that as soon as they endorsed a Republican for a major office I would immediately join. I never had to worry about that ever happening.
I was ssurprised to learn that only slightly over 17% of Michgian workers are union members.
That is well above the national average of 11.8
but still that means that nearly 83 % of Michigan workers are not union.
It seems that the union members are convinced the unions give them a better deal. I wonder that they don't stop to consider how the other 83% of working Michiganders(?) get along just fine
OR why don't the union members pay attention to what is going on all over the country?
Of course the union leaders are whipping them up, the leaders want their fat salaries and the Dems want their voters.
That is well above the national average of 11.8
but still that means that nearly 83 % of Michigan workers are not union.
It seems that the union members are convinced the unions give them a better deal. I wonder that they don't stop to consider how the other 83% of working Michiganders(?) get along just fine
OR why don't the union members pay attention to what is going on all over the country?
Of course the union leaders are whipping them up, the leaders want their fat salaries and the Dems want their voters.
houstonearlers
100+ Posts
The problem with the free rider complaint complaint: It’s simply untrue. Under the National Labor Relations Act, unions are free to represent all employees – not just union members – at the bargaining table. But they are not required to do so.
“The National Labor Relations Act does not mandate unions exclusively represent all employees, but permits them to electively do so,” explained Heritage’s James Sherk in a Monday column. ”Under the Act, unions can also negotiate ‘members-only’ contracts that only cover dues-paying members. They do not have to represent other employees.”
Moreover, the free-rider argument implies that workers’ union dues would go at least predominately toward activities that achieve better compensation or other workplace benefits. But neither is that the case.
In fact, less than a quarter (24.1 percent) of expenditures by Michigan’s 25 largest private sector (or public/private hybrid) union locals go toward actually representing workers, according to those unions’ latest LM-2 filings (obtained via the Labor Department’s website - see spreadsheet below for a more detailed breakdown). The rest goes toward other expenditures, including benefits, political activity, and general overhead.
The Link
In Obamacare, it was mandated that health insurance companies spend 85% of premiums on care (vs. marketing, profits, and overhead) or else they owe their customers a refund. So if the same standard was applied to unions, how much of their dues would they have to refund?
For example, according to the most recent federal filings, the Michigan Education Association — the state’s largest labor union — received $122 million and spent $134 million in 2012. They averaged about $800 from each of their 152,000 members.
According to union documents, "representational activities" (money spent on bargaining contracts for members) made up only 11 percent of total spending for the union. Meanwhile, spending on “general overhead” (union administration and employee benefits) comprised of 61 percent of the total spending.
The union appears to have spent nearly the entirety, or $119 million of their $122 million in dues, just supporting their leadership (and various politicians) in grand style. They actually had to borrow $12 million to do their job of representing their members.
By Obama's standard of good management (core activity costs = 85% of total customer dues paid) then the union should have taken only $17.4 million from their members, and owe them a $104.6 million refund.
The Link
And the freedom of contract deal has zero merit. Once employees choose to unionize, the employer must collectively bargain with them. If we want true freedom of contract, then let employers' have the choice to fire employees who choose to unionize. Then you do not need a right to work statute as everyone on both sides has free choices to make.
“The National Labor Relations Act does not mandate unions exclusively represent all employees, but permits them to electively do so,” explained Heritage’s James Sherk in a Monday column. ”Under the Act, unions can also negotiate ‘members-only’ contracts that only cover dues-paying members. They do not have to represent other employees.”
Moreover, the free-rider argument implies that workers’ union dues would go at least predominately toward activities that achieve better compensation or other workplace benefits. But neither is that the case.
In fact, less than a quarter (24.1 percent) of expenditures by Michigan’s 25 largest private sector (or public/private hybrid) union locals go toward actually representing workers, according to those unions’ latest LM-2 filings (obtained via the Labor Department’s website - see spreadsheet below for a more detailed breakdown). The rest goes toward other expenditures, including benefits, political activity, and general overhead.
The Link
In Obamacare, it was mandated that health insurance companies spend 85% of premiums on care (vs. marketing, profits, and overhead) or else they owe their customers a refund. So if the same standard was applied to unions, how much of their dues would they have to refund?
For example, according to the most recent federal filings, the Michigan Education Association — the state’s largest labor union — received $122 million and spent $134 million in 2012. They averaged about $800 from each of their 152,000 members.
According to union documents, "representational activities" (money spent on bargaining contracts for members) made up only 11 percent of total spending for the union. Meanwhile, spending on “general overhead” (union administration and employee benefits) comprised of 61 percent of the total spending.
The union appears to have spent nearly the entirety, or $119 million of their $122 million in dues, just supporting their leadership (and various politicians) in grand style. They actually had to borrow $12 million to do their job of representing their members.
By Obama's standard of good management (core activity costs = 85% of total customer dues paid) then the union should have taken only $17.4 million from their members, and owe them a $104.6 million refund.
The Link
And the freedom of contract deal has zero merit. Once employees choose to unionize, the employer must collectively bargain with them. If we want true freedom of contract, then let employers' have the choice to fire employees who choose to unionize. Then you do not need a right to work statute as everyone on both sides has free choices to make.
Whether joining the union is a condition of employment or not, is a matter of contract, right? If that association negotiates a contract, then it is the terms of the contract that are binding. It is the contract that dictates how members and non members will be treated. Nevertheless that is separate from the organization itself. Perhaps the Government should prevent Augusta National from charging its members a fee or any association for that matter.
houstonearlers
100+ Posts
In other words, the freedom of contract argument is ******** because the government has interfered already in the contract by forcing employers to collectively bargain with its employees who have chosen to unionize. If they don't, they get an unfair labor practice charge under the NLRA.
Larry T. Spider
1,000+ Posts
majorwhiteapples
5,000+ Posts
Pro-Union Demonstrators in Michigan attack reporter, that is a civilized demonstration.
Mich?
Are you really asking if Unions pay part of a union member's retirement?
No they do not but i bet each union leader has a fat cat retirement fund.
In most cases with most unions they do pay a small amount during a strike to the members who walk picket lines etc.
But the money they pay out is not large ( prob averages 150/week) and it is paid from money the member contributed.
The real beneficiares from unions are the paid leaders and the Dem party.
Ever compare unemployment rates in right to work states against union states?
In michigan alone look no further than Detroit to see the effects.
there are more people not working and not llooking than there are people actually working
The city now pays $1.08 in benefits to municipal workers and retirees( ALL UNION) for every $1.00 it pays in salary.
Mich? think the union will step in and part any part of the retiree retirment funds when the city runs out
which it likely will run out in 6 mons.
Are you really asking if Unions pay part of a union member's retirement?
No they do not but i bet each union leader has a fat cat retirement fund.
In most cases with most unions they do pay a small amount during a strike to the members who walk picket lines etc.
But the money they pay out is not large ( prob averages 150/week) and it is paid from money the member contributed.
The real beneficiares from unions are the paid leaders and the Dem party.
Ever compare unemployment rates in right to work states against union states?
In michigan alone look no further than Detroit to see the effects.
there are more people not working and not llooking than there are people actually working
The city now pays $1.08 in benefits to municipal workers and retirees( ALL UNION) for every $1.00 it pays in salary.
Mich? think the union will step in and part any part of the retiree retirment funds when the city runs out
which it likely will run out in 6 mons.
houstonearlers
100+ Posts
Mich
thanks for those links. They provide good information and opinions.
One area I am not clear on, when it mentions union oension funds are they talking about pension funds over and above the employer pension funds?
So do the union members contribute to the union pension funds And contribute to the employer offered pension funds?
and then it says the funds come from profit and dues.
Do unions make profits?
I am confused, one of the selling points of unions, even touted yesterday in Michigan, is that unions negotiate better retirement packages from the employer.
thanks for those links. They provide good information and opinions.
One area I am not clear on, when it mentions union oension funds are they talking about pension funds over and above the employer pension funds?
So do the union members contribute to the union pension funds And contribute to the employer offered pension funds?
and then it says the funds come from profit and dues.
Do unions make profits?
I am confused, one of the selling points of unions, even touted yesterday in Michigan, is that unions negotiate better retirement packages from the employer.
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