Mechelle Voepel chat

Seattle4ut might be around for longer than you think. Consider:

Seattle4UT has beat Aggie as many times as GG.
Seattle4UT has only one one less NCAA Touney win than GG has at UT
Seattle4UT cost the athletic department about 1 million less a year than GG

I see real value in Settle4UT. Hook 'em.
 
One of the things I find interesting as I watch the games (both mens and womens) is how many games have the announcers talking about success that Coach so and so has had in their first two or three years with the program.

Perhaps instead of some of the other discussions on the board that have tried to compare Coach G to a small handful of other programs in the Big 12, we ought to be asking why she is not doing what other coaches in other conferences seem to be able to accomplish. Remember also that she was not brought into resurrect a program that was having no success but rather to elevate one that was treading water. She inheirited a crop of talented players.

This was NOT a situation where she took over a team that posted only seven wins the year before and finished last in the conference (Mulkey at Baylor). Blair took over a team that had not had a winning season in several years. Oklahoma had no storied history of which to speak when Coale came in and in fact planned to drop the program only a few years earlier. What is even worse is that Texas historically has NOT been a school that measured its progress by how it did in a period of time compared to better athletic programs...Texas WAS the standard.

Texas is NOT getting the results that were expected...let's face it, my guess is that some would be willing to trade Kristy Curry's three WNIT victories at Tech in the same period for the three consecutive one and dones that Texas has posted...
 
mb227 says some things with which I disagree, but at least makes some points that are possible to discuss. Seattle, it seems to me, has no interest in discussion. Makes me wonder why a person would post on a message board. But, knock yourself out if that is what you enjoy.

However, please understand, you are no more likely to give others reasons to change their thinking than you are to change your own.

For my part……My freshman year of college I took an argumentation and debate class that was honestly miles over my head at the time. But, something that I learned in that class – which really surprised me at the time – was just how weak analogy was as a form of argumentation and persuasion because there are never perfect comparisons. You never have apples to apples. You can create analogies that make GG look good, and some that don’t. Pretty soon you are arguing about which analogy is more valid than the other. I would rather talk about what has actually happened and why. I think that when you look at the history of the Texas WBB program under GG, and leave out what everyone else has or has not done before and during that time, the one thing that is clear is that it is not time to give up on the current direction of the program. To me it is very clear that nothing has been proven definitively for good or bad and 2011-2012 will be critical in short-term success or failure of the program.

I’m spending more time thinking about what needs to happen in the future in order for GG to be successful. I would personally like to hear from the more pessimistic posters what it is that they think would need to happen, even if they believe it is impossible to achieve under coach G, and how they would measure that result.

I’m personally game for a discussion, even if we likely end still in disagreement. I see no reason to take seriously sensationalist comments that are only intended to incite emotional reactions.
 
I agree with Outlook that at least it's possible to engage mb227, and respond to his/her comments. I do think it's fair to compare where coaches were at in the same stage/s in their respective tenures. As far as circumstances being different for each, of course that's true, but many feel Gail's task was more difficult than the one faced by the others when they took the helm. That was the point made during the radio show with VanLengen and Voepel; that GG came into a tough conference with a number of top, well coached programs (Baylor, OU, A&M), all of whom were ahead on the recruiting front at that point. And while Texas has a great history, and experienced a mini-resurgence from 2002-2004, we weren't in a good place when she took over...as evidenced by the two conseuctive years without an NCAA invite.

Obviously recruiting is key, and I think everyone agrees it's getting much better. We've brought in some good players thus far, such as AG and Cokie, but not enough. Hopefully the combination of this year's class and the next will lay the foundation we've all been looking for; I think we've all been happy with the play of the current freshmen.

So, am I disappointed? Of course, as I always will be when things don't go well, or the team loses. But I'm not discouraged and fully believe in this coaching staff.
 
I think it is fair to make the comparison between coaches. I just think that you have to be really careful drawing conclusions.

Players, coaches, and administrations are always going to be compared. It is the nature of the beast in any sport. And, it is fun for fans. But, there are always circumstantial differences that are difficult to completely take into account.

I am certainly not saying that comparisons should not be posted or discussed. I have too good of a time doing that myself.

I’m just saying that I think a better evaluation tool is to look at Texas alone. Under what circumstances did GG arrive? What did she do with existing personnel? Who has she brought to the program and what results have they achieved? What factors outside her control should be considered? What are the current realistic expectations for next season and beyond? Forget about OU, Baylor, and aTm. What is happening at Texas? Watch the games and think about the strengths and weaknesses of the team, and the development of the players.

I’m not completely happy with the detailed answers to all of those questions. On the other hand, I am very optimistic about the future. Without all of those details for now, I think there is a lot of positive to point toward, and strong reason to believe that much better days are ahead.

I do not, as some would say, believe in mediocrity. I also do not believe in change for the sake of change. When things do not go the way you wanted the best answer is not always to start over completely.
 
Honestly, I guess it is all about your individual expectations.

For this season, I was not happy that we were only going to have 10 scholarship players. I just didn't understand why we weren't using our entire allotment of 15 'ships. Then, Cokie gets hurt and is out for the entire season. I had to get over the "I told you so" mentality regarding injuries affecting a very small roster; still, I also had to lower my expectations and accept that we might not make the NCAA tourney. Well, we did make it; and, we came within a late basket of claiming to be one of the 32 best teams in the country.

So, in Coach G's first four years, she has guided the team to 4 straight NCAA tourneys. That's more than what Coach Conradt was able to do her last few seasons. With small rosters and injuries, that's not a small feat. On the other hand, I think just making the NCAA tourney is the minimum we as fans want to accept.

I think the future looks bright. The roster is finally starting to approach the 15 ship limit. We will have some experienced guards and some tremendous shooters. The team is getting more athletic as a whole, and the inside game might be able to hold its own if we stay injury-free. My expectation is a Sweet 16 appearance.
 
So, in Coach G's first four years, she has guided the team to 4 straight NCAA tourneys. That's more than what Coach Conradt was able to do her last few seasons. With small rosters and injuries, that's not a small feat
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I disagree. For the University of Texas, that is a small feat. In my opinion, it is a make or break year next year for Coach G
 
Not sure it is enough to say she got there...let's face it, a small school with a coach who was coaching high school just a few years ago almost took out a four-seed. I'm sure that program and its fanbase were thrilled to just get to the NCAA and come close to winning...but they are a success-starved program that is barely a blip on the radar. But their one and done did not cost $1M'ish in salary....

Texas has been treading water for the past several years. Are we really to believe that the talent pool that was on the bench was THAT overrated coming in? Are we really to believe that a coach should not be able to expect/get cohesive team play out of nationally recruited players? The fact that teams in the tourney had coaches who had been on the job for only a season or two blows some holes in the theory that results cannot be achieved until a coach has their own recruits on the floor.

When the talent is supposed to be among the cream of the crop, they SHOULD be able to meld AS A TEAM. That has not happened here...and at least some of that needs to fall at the footsteps of the coaching staff. Just as Barnes gets no pass for his lack of offensive cohesion (go look at the mens board), neither to does Goestenkors get a pass for the inability to have nationally known players getting the job done.
 
I agree with much of what you say, Moooooo, but see things a little differently when it comes to roster size. Simply having more scholarship players isn't necessarily the answer, and wouldn't have helped when Cokie was injured unless there had been another player with her skill set and size on the roster. Until Lauren was dismissed last Spring, and Kristen decided against returning, it looked like our roster was going to be 12. And when Kristen returned to the team it was back at 11. I don't think having more bodies in and of itself is the answer, especially when you look at the rotations most programs use during the season. Having the right players, and obviously depth at key positions, is what matters. For instance, if we had signed more players in the Cokie/Lauren class of 2009 - just for the sake of having a bigger roster and even if they weren't the right caliber of player or filling certain needs - it could have impacted our ability to sign the larger classes, and bigger names, during 2010 and 2011. I know you've mentioned previously that recruits aren't necessarily signed for four years, and are even told their scholarships are renwed annually, but I don't believe that. Yes, there are occasions when a player moves on, but that certainly isn't the norm and can't be a part of the thinking process when deciding on who to offer. There is a major Div I football program that's been in a lot of trouble this past year for doing that exact same thing. If any program gets to the point they're signing recruits solely for the sake of roster size, with the idea some will be replaced later if better options come along, that program is in a whole lot of trouble and won't be signing anyone worth having before long. Yes, it happens, but it's the exception rather than the rule. I think we've done things the right way, and the 11 players that now constitute our 2010 and 2011 classes are a testament to that. I don't aruge it would have been nice to have a few more top recruits signed in previous classes, but it didn't happen. Nonetheless I'm happy we have Cokie and others, and l think we're all happy about the size and quality of 2010 and 2011 classes. As I've said before it's going to be exciting to see such a large, diverse and talented group grow and play together for three years.
 
I hate to say that the 2011/2012 season is a make or break year. Sometimes circumstances arise that you couldn’t foresee. But, if it is not that it is certainly very close. A great season would go a long way toward re-establishing Texas as an elite program. A poor year might be enough to really put GG job in jeopardy. Another so-so year……I would have to see the circumstances, but at some point you have to produce regardless of the challenges. I’m optimistic, but there is no getting around the importance of 2011/2012.

I want to see not just a full roster, but a roster full of players who can be effective against any competition. There should be at least 10 players who are a part of the regular rotation by the time conference season starts. AT, Yvonne, Chassidy, AG, Chelsea, Cokie, Tiffany, and Anne Marie give you eight returning players who appear to be set as part of that rotation. Shanice also returns, but I haven’t seen enough of her play to know if that is a reasonable expectation. So, potentially you need to find two from the incoming class that can make significant contributions. With Kayla Brewer joining the team by conference there are five additional players, so finding two should not be a stretch. Kayla, Cassie Peoples, and Nneka Enemkpali would appear to be the leading candidates, based on their reputation. But, Brady Sanders and Ronisha Major also have that potential. Just find at least 10 without depth issues at any position. Then use the best 10.

Reduce turnovers. Somehow. I’m not going to dwell on that, or point fingers. But, elite teams take care of the ball. That has to be addressed. With 4 ½ freshmen (Kayla), and 5 ½ sophomores (Cokie) this may still be a challenge. But, it has to improve. Beating aTm is an expectation at Texas, and that is not going to happen unless you can handle pressure and take care of the ball.

Improved defense from the guards as a unit. I don’t care if it is coaching technique, help rotations, zone vs man decisions, match-up issues, or different players. It just has to improve. Too often Texas allowed easy baskets because guards didn’t keep their player in front of them. This also makes it more difficult for posts to stay out of foul trouble. As well, I would like to see more effective pressure on the perimeter make it more difficult for opponents to make entry passes into the paint.

I don’t care if it is the first option, but Texas has to have the ability to go to an effective power post game. Get some higher percentage shots, and more offensive rebounds. Force teams to double in the paint and open up some outside shots. Take advantage of teams who are not strong in the post, and help to compete with teams that typically dominate there. Don’t be one dimensional…….And, work with AG to find a way to score consistently. She doesn’t need to set the world on fire. But, she should be able to find something that is consistently successful.

Find a 3PT shooter to replace Kat. Chassidy and someone. If you make teams defend the post and two 3PT shooters you aren’t going to have many long scoring droughts. Yvonne has shown flashes of maybe becoming that player. It concerns me that her shot looks very flat. I would like it if she spent a significant part of the off-season improving that shot. I think it would also help her ability to get to the basket. There are other candidates. The coaching staff has to find at least one from the players who will receive the bulk of the playing time.

That is most of my laundry list. I also saw things that I liked this season. This is in the spirit of improvement I am looking for in the future.

I don’t know that I think anything short of Sweet 16 would be a failure. Strange things can happen in one game. But, I certainly want the season to finish with a clear feeling that Texas was that caliber team. I don’t think the key is in the tournament. I think it is during the season, and having a full resume that places Texas in a position for a fairly easy 1st round win.

I do not think Texas was treading water when GG arrived. I think the ship was sinking. I believe Coach G has fairly successfully plugged the leak and now it is time to start bailing water and right the ship…….How’s that for an analogy? I don’t want to measure success by specific games against OU, Baylor, aTm, Tennessee, or anyone else. But, I also expect to see a season which produces some big wins against top competition.
 
Good discussion.

Here's my two cents

OFFENSE! OFFENSE! OFFENSE! We must score on the inside as well as the outside. I know Reed got hurt and we had slim pickens but I was very disappointed that AG didn't step up to the offensive challenge. Yes, I know she improved but IMHO they should have road her and expected more from her. PERIOD! She was brought in to rebound and defend the paint. OK I know but now we need her to score. I look at Dolson at UCONN and see how she upped her game when Walker left and I'm wondering whatever training program they used on her we needed to steal a page out of their training book to help AG. Was it the coaching staff not using the right training to help her improve in this area? Was it her? I don't know. I will reiterate yes I know she improved but I expected much more from her.

WINGS! We are sooo point guard heavy. Diversify our recruiting. I would always recruit a wing, center and point guard. One of each every year. If the pickens are slim I would choose a wing because most of them can handle the rock, create their own shot and shoot from outside or drive to the basket. I can't believe we didn't have any true wings this year. I know Kat and Kristen can but we mainly had PG and SG driving to the basket. Tiffany can play a wing as well but she was injured.

OFFSEASON - Practice layups and fast breaks. This is ridiculous. I noticed a lot of times everyone ran straight down the center of the court instead of down the side lanes and/or they were running out of control and ran too far udner the basket. Everybody shoot 50 layups a day. Miss a layup run a suicide. I expect our post to work on the post game. PERIOD! We need inside points immediately. This kind of goes back to offense but we need about 4 or 5 offensive schemes for them. I'm thinking Duncan and Robinson on the inside.

FRESHMAN - for some reason I expect the freshman to come in and take over. Chassidy will start and I think the other 4 positions are up for grabs. My starting lineup - Little, Chassidy, Moore, Nneka and Reed.

Balance Defense and Offense - I know GG loves defense but we need OFFENSE. As someone else mentioned I think the game is headed towards fast pace, slashing and driving to the basket. Big bodies on the inside to clog up the paint or clear out the lane for the slasher. GG knows defense like the palm of her hand I believe it is time to know offense the same way. Try the triangle, etc and let's come up with the offenses that work and capitalize on the strengths of our team. O and another thing since Gayle wasn't a scoring force I never could figure out why she didn't clear out the paint on every possession and let the guards drive to the basket. I saw it some but that should have been a driving force.

I expect improvement overall. Top 3 in the conference, 20+ record, Sweet 16 appearance and I think it's time to win another Big 12 regular season title and/or tourny.

I'm frustrated at some points but I also see the light at the end of the tunnel. All it takes is one break out season, one recruit that knocks our socks off and we'll be good. We have Chassidy and I got sooo frustrated for her during the season when the inside game didn't step up. AARRGGHH!! All the games w/ a 10 point loss or less I kept thinking that was 5 easy inside baskets. We must improve our offense.
 
You will have to wait until 2012 for Little! But it will be interesting to see what our starting lineup looks like next year; a lot of possibilities but have to have them all here and playing together first.
 
Yea its been a hard year to swallow, but I have still be pride of the ladies.Texas has high expectations by their fan base! I just feel GG also walked into a trap.For the OK players we have, we 2 ELITE players which one of them start and the other 1 is injury. We were a OK TEAM. The Nash Sisters would have really been Outstanding, if C.Reed was playing. AG just did not give us nothing offensely. Also what hurt Texas more then anything.We did not have a True Point Guard.Which would have made a helluv difference.I can see next years lineup.
C.Peoples,AT, C.Fussell, Nneka and C.Reed
Hookem'
 
For those replying to my post, I wasn't necessarily suggesting that we just award scholarships for the sake of filling out a roster.

But, they don't all have to be All-Americans; some could be diamonds in the rough. I look at what Fort Bend Bush's, Carolyn Davis has done at Kansas; and what that other forward from San Antonio has done at Missouri. We sure could have used them on our side as they seemed to torch us everytime we play them.

But, the roster is finally nearing maximum capacity (which is good for so many reasons). While I'm excited to see Cokie return next season, I'm equally excited to have more serviceable bodies and a ton of shooters and ball handlers.
 
I agree about the 'diamonds in the rough', or recruits that weren't highly ranked out of high school. I don't recall if Davis was on any of the lists in HS but I don't think Chassidy was even in the top 100. Not sure how some of these players are missed by the ranking folks given how good they are, but perhaps they mainly focus on players who attend a lot of camps.
 
okay, found the thread where we are posting our projected startling lineup for next season. Saw it at work but couldn't remember which one it was when I got home.

My projected starting five:
PG-Cassie
SG-Chassidy
SF-tough call. four or five players that could start. I'll go with Tiffany due to her speed and ability to shoot the 3.
PF-Cokie
C-Ashley-probably I am one of the few that think no one is displacing her.
 
Ranking Polls depend a lot on AAU Teams. But a lot of girls that play High School Ball.Dont always play AAU Ball. I look forward to the team next year.I luv the recruits GG is bringing in.It took her a lil while. But she putting her work in. I luv the 2010 freshmans players this year.Wait til we match them with C.Reed.The 2011 Class will be at another level.
B.Sanders - Blue Collar Players, she stays on the floor for loose balls. And can shoot the 3 pointer.

R.Majors - will be a player that can play inside and outside. Luv to drive inside the lane.

C.Peoples - will be the player that will make Texas outstanding. Her court knowledge is Outstanding. Now she will give you defense and offense, as a point guard.

K.Brewer - a post that can really run the floor.

Nneke - a post that can run the floor, and jump out of the gym.

I look for Texas to be tough next year. They will have all the pieces!
Hookem'
 
Your starters will be

C.Peoples - at Point Guard
AT - at the 2
C.Fussell - at the 3
Nneka - at the 4
Cokie - at the 5

AT might want to watch her spot. Playing time will be tough next year.I look forward to also seeing A.Hartung next year. She got better as the year ended. K.Brewer,R.Majors will fight for major playing time, if not starting.
Hookem'
 
I do not think Yvonne will be relegated to come off the bench in favor of a bunch of Freshman...And, I am hoping that an AG/Cokie combo will happen, or at least an offense/defense switch at times....

Regardless of who starts, we look to be very good on paper...
and.....
We can all agree (I hope) that we are anxiously awaiting the 2011-2012 year...



hookem.gif
 
There are so many possibilities with the starting lineup and it's really hard to tell what will happen until the recruits are on board. I do think we'll see many of our veterans as starters, at least at the outset, and from there it will all depend on performance and results. We may be well into the season before the final starting lineup is set.
 
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