Living in the closet

S

SyracuseHorn

500+ Posts
I've been a closeted atheist for about six years. During my teenage years and into early adulthood, I was a Christian. Most of my oldest friends are quite religious, and my parents, though I wasn't raised in a religious household, have "discovered" religion over the past few years.

My career path will soon put me in positions that bear public scrutiny. Even though government jobs shouldn't have a religious test, if a prospective employer knew my religious beliefs, I would likely not get the kind of job that I'm now ready to take.

I want to speak my mind more openly, but I have a real fear that "coming out" of the Atheist closet could really hurt my personal life, my career, and even the well-being of my soon-to-be-born son.

I know there are sometimes heated religious discussions on this board, and I'm not looking to stir up the belief vs. non-belief argument, though I must admit that this board is a great outlet to express those views.

Does anyone have an experience - good or bad - about coming out? How did your family react? Are you open at work? Has it affected your relationships with co-workers?
 
One of my best frinds since I was a little kid is an atheist. Seems he discovered his inner atheist while attending a small Catholic college in Vermont. Fortunately for him, he doesn't work in the government or for the church, he freelance for NFL films. It was a shock to me when he told me about it because I had not spoken to him for over a year when out of the blue he comes to Austin and over a couple of beers he tells me this. What I never got from him, though, was what inspired(?) the change.

I still love the guy as my friend and him being an atheist puts not one single negative thought in my mind as to the kind of person he is.
 
Shoudln't affect you at work. That would be discrimination I believe.


I've told a couple of my friends, and I"m sure they were taken aback, but they're still my friends.
 
I'm continually shocked when I find that people are "believers". Especially good friends who are otherwise normal. When they mention that they believe in god (or whatever), sometimes I'm left a little speechless.

I don't think that anyone I know thinks that I am anything but an atheist. I've never thought about it mattering, unless you run for office. Then the wackos, like the boy scouts, will want to know that you believe in "something". Believing in the good in your fellow man isn't worth ****. Only whether or not you believe in god... even if you are an adulterer or you've employed an illegal the last 15 years or you drink & drive...

Just as long as you believe in god.
rolleyes.gif
 
Thanks for responding. I appreciate the comments.

People in my line of work - public library administration - are often appointed by a publicly elected board or council. Some of the board members are genuinely interested in public service. Most just want to stay in office to pad their resumes.

There are constant attempts to censor library materials, usually because something upsets someone's religious sensibilities. There are public hearings, newspaper articles, and other avenues of public discussion for these challenges. Generally, it's just an amusing distraction from the day-to-day running of the library.

However, if someone challenging library materials learned -say from a mutual acquaintance, blog post, or wherever- that the library director was an atheist, then my job would definitely be at risk. The materials challenge could very easily become an ad-hominem attack on my religious views. I don't suspect I'd last very long if an elected library board felt pressure to get rid of me; anti-discrimination laws can be circumvented.

Liddy Dole's recent commercial backfired primarily because her opponent was a devout churchgoer, not because the underlying accusation of atheism was in itself problematic. Had her opponent really been an atheist, well, the story would have been much different.
 
I don't really have much advice, but just wanted to say good luck. I would think that you could avoid or fake your way through work issues for a while. Friends and family will be more difficult. For some, you can ease their minds by eliminating some common misconceptions, like the idea that atheists have no morals, or that you're going to go batshit crazy.

Oh, and be thankful you're not gay. Their coming out is probably 100x worse on average.
 
Most people would consider me an atheist. Depending on their definition of 'god' they could be right. Until recently I worked as a government scientist. My suggestions for success in government as an atheist:

1) don't advertise your beliefs. Remember, your beliefs are your business.

2) respect the beliefs of others..

3)don't get in arguments about religion.

4) find your support group outside your place of work. Quack's ain't bad. There are lots of people here who agree with your doubts and there are lot's of others who disagree, but who still respect your position. There are a few who anticipate with joy your everlasting torment, but those folks are rare - or at least they keep their fantasies to themselves.

Good luck!

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I'm walking a very fine line w/ my in-laws these days. I turned a critical eye on religion when I was about 17 and <<poof>> I couldn't be happier. My wife--who did her undergrad @ Baylor--describes herself as a free spirit/thinker who has no stomach for organized religion.

But my wife's mother is an ultra-born again evangelical whose zealotry has made for some very difficult situations. She uses religion as a weapon to control the thoughts & actions of the rest of the family & to manipulate most any situation to get the desired outcome. My wife told me her mom's backstory when we were first dated & we've played nice for the last 8, almost 9 years.

We've been respectful, mind you. Always bow our heads @ family dinners & let them do the blessings. We've been to a number of church services w/ them over the years & feign appreciation when they give us a bible as a gift (we've gotten 2 or 3 from them since we've been married).

Lately it's gotten more difficult. They live west of Fredericksburg so when we visit them it's usually a Friday - Sunday deal. They're now very active in the cowboy church that has recently sprung up in their small town (Harper). They've been itching for us to attend some Sunday which we always politely decline & explain that we like to hit the road after dawn so we can be home in 2 1/2 hours. They're getting more & more forward w/ their advances. When were there last in August my FIL pulled me aside to ask a favor: could I "convince" my wife to go to church the next morning w/ them. I told him 'no', that she has her own free will & has no desire to go & furthermore neither did I. Then I got a brief speech from the FIL about how "the men are the spiritual leaders of the family & how our wives will follow & obey our actions." I answered this w/ silence. When he saw I wasn't taking the bait he simply said "we'll continue to pray for both of you."

My wife & I had a good talk on the drive home. She got very emotional & there are some deep-seeded issues she has w/ her mom that come to the surface from time to time. In the end we play a quiet & respectful game w/ her family: we accept that they are all very religous (including her siser & brother & their respective families) while we ask them to accept that our own spirituality is very private & personal & frankly nobody elses' business or worry.

That's all we can do. If the MIL ever knew my true beliefs she would think I was possessed by demons & call for an exorcism.
 
I'm not sure how this would be such a big deal at work unless you've got a job with Focus on the Family or Hagee.
 
I don't see why it is necessary to tell other people your religious beliefs, or what business of theirs it is to know them.
Other than your spouse concerning how your children are raised, of course. That would be an issue.
Are you going to proseltyze your co-workers, like a Pentecostal after a revival camp?
Why don't you just live and let live? Everyone has different beliefs and philosophies.
 
It was awkward, P/C, but the more awkward thing is that HE was instructed by his wife to explain the "men/moral compass" bit. She truly is the religous puppet master while he pretty much goes along to get along, and since his wife has worn the pants for most of the past 20 years generally does his best to follow the path of least resistance.

It's funny because although my FIL comes across as a carcicature of his hero John Wayne, in reality he's got the freedom to do whatever it is his wife allows. The hypocracy of their beliefs vs. actions is not lost on either my wife or myself, but we never call them on it. They know that their daughter is a very intelligent, independent thinker & they respect & admire that about her. Unless of course it's something they disagree with.
 
I was raised Catholic, but it didn't take long for me to look around at the world and the church and decide that the whole operation seemed less like fact and more like wishful thinking, fairy tales, and an emotional crutch at best or brain washing, thought control, and manipulation at worse.

My parents both had a Catholic education. They wanted me to go to Strake Jesuit for high school. They made me take the entrance exam (scored 98th percentile). In my interview with Father Orlando, went something like this:

FO: Why do you want to go to Stake Jesuit?
Bernard: I don't.
FO: Then why are you here?
Bernard: My parents made me come.
FO: Why don't you want to come here?
Bernard: I don't want to go to all-guy school..... and I'm not really into the whole religious thing.

We had some more talk about my religious beliefs. I said "it just doesn't make sense to me." We talked about why my grades which included a lot of B's and C's when he said I should really be making all A's. We touched on some other topics too, including smoking pot, after he sent my dad out of the room.

When it was all said and done, Father Orlando said, 'Let me know if you change your mind and want to come to school here. You're accepted."

I thought I was really going to catch some **** from my dad on the way home. As we walked to the car I said, "How do you think it went?" My dad just said, "Fine".

That was eighth grade. That was my first public announcement that I thought religion was BS. Over time others have been informed. I have many friends and some family that are pretty religious. They know where I stand. It's no big deal. It's OK to disagree with someone on one level and respect them on another level.

In the professional world, it's better to just keep your religious opinions to yourself. Don't ever lie about it, but don't offer up your beliefs either. If a customer asks me where I go to church, I'll gladly tell him that I don't. But if a customer tells me that Jesus told him to buy my product, I won't laugh at his decision making skills, I'll just say, "thanks for your business".

When W walks around his Crawford ranch holding hands the Saudi King, I doubt he's telling the King that he's going to burn in Hell if he doesn't start praying to Jesus.

As a public library official, you may have to walk a fine line sometimes. Do not lie or mislead people about your religious beliefs. Perform you job to the best of your ability. Let the chips fall where they may. Respect others beliefs even if you disagree with them, but you have to respect yourself first. You have to be able to look yourself in the mirror every day. I don't want to look in the mirror and see a liar even if I lie in the name of avoiding confrontation or improving my economic stake. Your opinion may differ.

Bernard
 
Another raised Catholic. Alter boy from my first communion at 7 until my confirmation at 15. Went to church every single Sunday until the day I left for UT.

I remember fighting about going through with the confirmation; I just knew I didn’t believe in the same sense as the Catholic Church. Mom raised holy, holy hell when I tried to start thinking on my own and tried to avoid the confirmation classes.

I lost my backbone and caved, agreeing to do the confirmation just to avoid having a fight.

I still believe there’s a overall higher power, but not locked into one specific belief. I am analytical and believe strongly in the idea of evolution and don’t understand why people think evolution and God are mutually exclusive beliefs.

I have been to church exactly 8 times since I went off to college. The 8 times were when I visited my parents for Christmas/ Christmas break. And I only went to not cause a stir.

The last time happened Christmas '07 and I had my epiphany moment. I was standing in the middle of Midnight Mass, hearing a priest talking about strong beliefs and to go with your heart and I did. I broke it right there.

I immediately knew that in terms of the Catholic Church, I no longer believed in their system and wouldn’t return to a church.

My mother nearly lost it when I refused to go to communion that night. I chose to sit with my father, a Methodist, who hadn’t ever converted and went to church to keep his wife from going bonkers on him.

The drive home was beyond stupid, being called sinner, going to hell, disappointment the whole enchilada.

I kept quiet, which drove her even crazier, until I finally had enough and basically told her to drop it, the words didn’t mean anything anymore.

Turns out, I was the last son to tell her he didn’t want to deal with church anymore. Both brothers had done it years earlier, and I guess she saw me as the last hope that her religious beliefs would continue on in the family.
 
It seems to me like that as an official of a public library it would be very appropriate to respond that "In my very public position in this diverse community I have found it preferable not to get into discussions about my own personal religious or political beliefs."
 
Syracusehorn,

Good for you. Atheism is the exact same thing as any organized religion to me, you are making a choice for what you believe in, and you have every right to not be penalized for it.

I am not an atheist, but someone who just doesn't know or care.

Soon enough it will become more and more accepted to speak with alternative views like yours. And thats a good thing.
 
Don't be militant about your beliefs and you're fine. The people who get in trouble are the ones that demand that everyone follow their ideal (whichever religion or lack thereof they follow).
 
it would be hard for me to imagine soething I care less about than what religion or lack of religion someone belongs too as long as they don't bug me about it.

I guess it comes from working with Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Musims, Jews, Shinto, agnostics and atheists in a foreign country.

There are so many variants that none of them are interesting accept to those involved.


What ever religion you belong or dont belong to - good for you man it makes zero difference to me, I'll like you on your merits or not.
 
Ghost-

I'm walking that same line, except it is MY family I am walking it with.

My parents did not raise me with a religious background. I didn't regularly attend church until I was about 16 years old. I became "born-again" the day before my 17th birthday. From that time on I was involved in my church and fairly religious.

I have, however, started moving away from the church over the last few years. In that time, though, my dad has become VERY religious and very involved in the cowboy church near his home (outside of Texarkana, TX).

He has also become so right-wing Republican that we can't have a conversation without him telling me I'm going to hell because I am a Democrat.

In fact, last week he said he would have to stop talking to me until after the election because he would get so upset talking to me, that he was afraid he was going to say something that ruined our relationship forever (like the damning me to hell thing hasn't hurt it). I'm not sure what is going to change after the election, though, since it looks like Obama is going to win.

You can imagine that if my being a Democrat was bad, how bad it would be if I said to him, "Well, I'm not sure the Bible is 100% true or accurate." That would be the final straw.

So, I have to keep my beliefs on that one well hidden. Thankfully, I know the lingo well enough having gone to church for a long time, that I am able to fool him quite easily.
 
If you don't believe, then it can't hurt to attend some services. It can be like going back home and having to suffer through some horrendous restaurant that is a favorite of someone in your family. You don't go because you like the food, you like the person.

And if your wife doesn't want to go to the church because of behavior of the MIL in the past, then your wife needs to step up and talk to her. I imagine that bad feelings do not only come to the surface when discussing religion.

but to your original question, I would tell people that you consider religion/spirituality to be personal.

I can see in some small communities or even large cities, you may be questioned by a boss which church you attend. For them, church may be a large part of their life and they may mean the question as harmless but answering that you don't attend could put you in a bad light with them. Maybe you may have to even join a church but treat it as a social venue that is family friendly. Go once a month. Its not hypocritical to not agree with everyone that is spoken at church. Many of them offer a low key God message and more about good morals and treating people well. Nothing bad about listening to that once per month.

You would probably be surprised how many people in church don't believe the what the pastor/reverend/priest is saying.
 
I appreciate your take, BA93, but disagree on the church v. bad restaurant analogy. We have to eat, we don't have to go & pretend to be obedient little sheep. Besides, we've already done that a number of times in the past @ their old church in San Antonio & the SIL's family church in Spring. We've done it. That doesn't mean we're going to continue to do it.

"Ahhh, but what's the harm if you don't believe?" is a little too simplistic, IMHO. We don't force our idealogies on them so why should we be subjected to theirs?

As far as my wife confronting her mom, well...that's easier said than done. She's gone to counselling to learn some tools on how to deal with & communicate with her mother. It's helped a lot. But there are some battles where the only way to win is to avoid the conflict. My wife could talk rationally with her mom--and has--but it's simply not reciprocated when it comes to religion.

So we make the best we can of the situation, are respectful & non-judgemental when in their home, & bite our tongues as needed. But we've also stood our ground politely yet firmly on a few points & figure that's probably as good as it's ever going to get.
 
Syracuse
You've received plenty good advice about the work environment, and each home environment has its own story. You asked about the effect on your children, so I'll add this.

My wife is Catholic, with Catholic schools and college (Gonzaga). Her parents were quite devout, though, a lot of fun, and she is a good Catholic in a quite traditional way of wanting to please parents and teachers, and with a good dose of hopefulness thrown in. 26 years into marriage, she is an easygoing believer.

I had to take the counseling courses to get married in the Catholic church, an important thing for her parents I was happy to do. I had to promise to christen and confirm the kids Catholic. We did this.

I never went to church, but my kids did, thru middle school, because they wanted to. I did not discuss atheism at home in front of them, nor did I or do I beat my wife over the head with it. She knows where I'm at, and, eventually, so do the kids.

I have now a 24 year old engineering atheist. He is not as polite around his religious elders as I am, and one part of me wishes he'd be more respectful, while another part enjoys him giving them the old bs. My daughter is like her mom, down to being an English major and a matter of fact Catholic.

Bottom line, your atheism is no negative to your wife or kids. Its who you are that counts.
 
This has been an interesting, and in some ways sobering, exercise.

Sawbonz, you don't seem to be following the discussion. Atheism is toxic to public officials. Since I work for public officials, my views could potentially be an issue. If some industrious religious zealot in my district discovers my blog and finds out I'm an atheist, then my views could become the target of his wrath. How long would an elected library board stand up for an atheist in a public debate? They'd never win re-election.

Limiting my career is the concern for my family. You're a real **** for suggesting something unseemly.
 
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