Lance Circular Logic

H

Hornin Hong Kong

1,000+ Posts
My European Colleague maintainsLance doped the whole time and so did every other rider.

I asked him oes he think Lance is doping now he said no.

So if Lance wins now at age 37 doesn't it suggest he may not have been doping before.

He again says he was doping.

So if Lance wins now is 37 the ideal age to ride?

I'm confused.
 
cycling has the most rigorous testing of any sport. they just show up randomly at your house and they test after every race. i dont think he was doping.
 
your european colleague, like many others, just doesn't want to accept the fact that this one american cancer survivor absolutely kicked the **** out of the sport for nearly a decade. so when he can't comprehend it, he just reverts to doping. don't try to figure out his circular logic because it makes no sense and isn't even supposed to.
 
I found it interesting.

I have a French girl working for me who maintains the French like Lance and aren't out to get him.

My european colleague said that was jsut "right wing George Bush proaganda to put down the French"

The TDF is partisan politics?
 
I think Lance is clean and was clean during his run. The guy was the most tested athlete in history.

But here's a question...what's the ethical difference/threshhold between doping with your own blood and training with an altitude tent? I guess doping creates much more magnified blood oxygen levels, but from my knowledge altitude tents still increase blood oxygen way beyond normal levels. It's by most respects unnatural, and at the very least a shortcut. How sporting is it for some guy to get a performane boost by just sleeping in a tent? Hell, at least make the trip to the mountains. If they guy is using his own blood...there's just an ethical dillema that has to be resolved for me.

I understand it might be dangerous, you can get blood clots. But I don't think it's any more dangerous than descending down a moutain at 70 mph with your brain only half oxygenated. It can't be any more dangerous than what boxers go through sparring before a big fight. It can't be more unhealthy than what jockeys do to make weight.
 
Different cyclists have different natural levels of ability to carry oxygen in their blood. The sport allows sleeping in an oxygen tent to elevate your oxygen level to about what the higher percentage of natural levels can be, or you can train at altitude to do the same thing. Is this around 50%, if I recall reading this somewhere a few years ago?
Anyhow, it is legal in the sport.
If everyone was doping in the past, and now none of them are doping, why are they all going so fast? There's no drop off, they are flying out there.
Why don't people want to admit that more athletes are training better now, they use the oxygen tents, they have learned from Lance Armstrong about scientifically training and peaking properly for an event like the tour.
There used to be two guys who had a chance to win, some years just one. Three was a lot. Now there are four on Lance's team alone, and at least six more with a good chance at the yellow jersey in Paris.
Sorry, provide any credible evidence of these charges, or STFU, as they have gotten very old and stale.
How does the 37 year old guy, out of the sport for four years, coming off a broken collarbone, show up and beat 170 out of 180 in the opening time trial? Could it be the guy is put together very well for the sport of cycling? Could anyone admit that. No, hell, that couldn't be the case.
 
I have to agree with the Frenchies on this one. Lance was absolutely brilliant in his 7 victories... and that was against a field of completely doped up cyclists from around the world. I mean every last one of them has been caught.I just don't believe anyone, even someone as naturally gifted as Lance, could beat that many athletes all who were using PEDs. It doesn't really take anything away from Lance. The fact of the matter is that whether or not he was using PEDs himself, he beat the competition on an 'even' playing field. To do it once is spectacular. To do it 7 times is absurd. As for this year, I don't know what to think. My gut tells me it is impossible for him to perform this well at 37 without some help... but my heart wants to believe otherwise. At the end of the day, it really doesn't take away from what he has accomplished. He is an amazing athlete and will likely go down as the great cyclist to ever. Along these lines... was Miguel Indurain ever suspected of PEDs himself?
 
I think it's safe to say that doping only has relative benefits.

History has shown that, head to head against Armstrong's physiology and preparation, doping is overrated.

But yeah, if Armstrong takes a spot on the final podium at age 37 despite years of not racing and breaking his collarbone in March, it will put to rest all incredulity about his once in a generation natural abilities.
 
As Accurate stated some people can reach the 50% hemacrit level naturally or with low oxygen tents or altitude training. For those people they can compete with EPO dopers without doping. Lance is disciplined enough that I believe he can do it using those legal methods in combination with naturally elevated levels.

On the other hand the fact that he always took long breaks during the season leading up to big events could be indicative of autologous blood doping, so I will always wonder about that. There was no test for autologous blood doping up until a few years ago, and even then I have my doubts that they could detect it.

If he ever did use EPO it was most likely when he was with Motorola before he had cancer. There have been several reports that EPO usage was common with that team at that time and Lance may have been caught up in it.
 
I have read the same speculation Ray Dog mentions, and it could be true.
There also could be some as yet undetectable PED taken today. But look at the stated reasons for LA coming out of retirement. What would world opinion be of him if he were caught doping? They save extra samples, and retest years later when more knowledge allows more sophisticated tests.
Would LA really risk that for his cancer foundation's image and donation base? Hard to believe he would, but it is the kind of thing that can never be 100% proven.
He might have used the blood boosting technique early in his career (but only because those around him were guilty), but I just can't buy the "everybody does it" charges brought against him in recent years. And this year-very difficult to believe he would engage in any illegal performance enhancing drug use.
 
Sorry H2O but you don't appear to realize how autologous blood doping works. The point is that after you have a lot of blood withdrawn for later use, there is no way a rider can race effectively, so they train on their own while letting their body build up their blood cell counts again. A rider won't fail a drug test for giving blood.
 
Since it is on topic I thought I would post a link to this article by Lance's log time trainer who says that Lance primarily used hypoxia tents in prior years but is using altitude training this time staying at his home in Aspen.
The Link

He also mentions the Giro and the difference it may make, but doesn't explain why Lance dodged the Giro for 7 years.
 
There really is no actual evidence that Lance was doing illegal doping, all that exists is "He was so good that he must have done it" which is pretty week. Guess now we have a good explanation for Michael Jordan's success too!
 
our french head of trading says:

1) He was doping but everyone was
2) He is not now doping and everyone else still is

when I ask him if lance wins at 37 clean doesnt it suggest he never had to dope while younger.

he says no, lance doped prior no matte what happens now
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Weekly Prediction Contest

* Predict HORNS-AGGIES *
Sat, Nov 30 • 6:30 PM on ABC

Recent Threads

Prediction Results Threads

2024 Schedules

Back
Top