Is it time for a 3rd Party? (Libertarian, etc)

dang-str8

dang-str8

1,000+ Posts
For years I have been in the middle... I hate half of what Republicans stand for and somewhat agree with the other half... I hate 3/4 of what Democrats stand for and wholeheartedly agree with the other 1/4... what this turns into is mostly being in major disagreements with both sides... It's nearly impossible to vote for a viable Presidential Candidate with whom I agree substantially. I agree that its impossible to have a candidate that everyone agrees with 100% of the time, but limiting the options to 2 seems way outdated. I feel like there are so many people now that are actually more libertarian than they think, they just don't really know it yet...

If there were a 3rd party, I really feel the race for the presidency next year would be amazing. Paul could be himself instead of caving in his "views" just to gain Rep support... and he would bring a lot of Dem votes from social liberals/fiscal conservatives... Bush or Rubio could represent the Reps. and Hilary would swallow up all the way-lefts...
 
dang-str8 said:
For years I have been in the middle... I hate half of what Republicans stand for and somewhat agree with the other half... I hate 3/4 of what Democrats stand for and wholeheartedly agree with the other 1/4
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I’m right there with you. And in recent years I have just felt disengaged from the whole damn corrupt game. I’m not even sure if I will vote at all again given the choices we seem to have.
 
Dionysus said:
I’m right there with you. And in recent years I have just felt disengaged from the whole damn corrupt game. I’m not even sure if I will vote at all again given the choices we seem to have.
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This is exactly where I am.. I used to be heavy into politics.. Always keeping up with candidates, watching the news, watching talking heads give their opinions... But I've been disillusioned for years now.. I really don't even bother getting excited about anyone or anything in politics. The way I see it, whoever wins will screw us one way or another.. Politicians aren't leaders anymore.. The best candidates for the job don't win. It's just the one who runs the better campaign or sales themselves best. I just want someone I can believe in... The issues, the ideas.. Not the sales pitch.
 
There is a website, that I can dig up if need be, that has a person answer questions based on issues and policy. It helps truly determine where you are politically. The vast majority of people I know that have taken that quiz thing ended up Libertarian or Third Party (Green or other). They started off heavy R or D and found out they were truly neither. They may have leaned a bit in one direction or another but they were not R or D. They were something in between.

It's pathetic we have more choices of paper to wipe our butts or paste to put on a toothbrush than we have choices of political party. The two in power try very hard to make it near impossible for a third party to ruin their money grubbing deceitful ways.
 
Its been time for a third party for awhile.....the Democrat/Republican thing is ******** as 98 percent of the people in the process dont give damn about doing whats really good for the country. I guess I identify more as a Libertarian than anything else...I just want them to follow the constitution not subvert it or change it. I fear all we have done in 239 years is trade King George III for King Washington DC.
 
I'm going to piss off the Libertarians and Greens, but the current political system in the US is not workable with a third party. They hate when people say you're "wasting your vote" when you vote third party, but it's the truth. Furthermore, the third parties have no answer to that problem, which is why you'll never convince people to vote third party in big enough numbers to matter. If you dislike both parties to the same extent, then that's fine, because you won't care who wins or loses. However, virtually no one is that way, even if they claim to be. Almost everybody at least leans GOP or leans Democratic. They do care who wins or loses.

And before anyone points to Ross Perot, it doesn't matter that he got a significant number of votes. He didn't win a single electoral vote and didn't come close to winning any and was therefore not anywhere near winning the Presidency. If you voted for him, all you did was help screw George Bush. If you voted Ralph Nader in 2000, all you did was help screw Al Gore.

The combination of the first-past-the-post and the electoral college makes the United States built for a two-party system. You're not going to break that unless you break the system by adopting a proportional representation system of some kind.
 
The Democrat/Republican thing has been going a long time and both parties have evolved. Was Jefferson the first Democratic President or was it Jackson? The Federalists and Whig Party eventually died or at least became dormant. (Hey, maybe I should put up a Log Cabin, Hard Cider poster in my yard?) I'm probably 60-40 Democrat vs. Republican and felt comfortable in the party of Mark White, Bill Hobby and Bob Bullock. Frankly I was very comfortable with a pre-presidential George W. Bush, but his brand of bi-partisansanship went the same place as the Whigs and Federalists.
 
Most of the folks who I talk to that claim they support a 3rd party either:

1) Want to live a consequence free life, and that people should be able to do whatever they hell they want.

2) Don't believe in capitalism/economic liberty.

or

3) A combination of 1 and 2.
 
texas_ex2000 said:
Most of the folks who I talk to that claim they support a 3rd party either:

1) Want to live a consequence free life, and that people should be able to do whatever they hell they want.

2) Don't believe in capitalism/economic liberty.

or

3) A combination of 1 and 2.
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I dont believe in a consequence free life but I dont need the friggin federal government involved in it to the extent they are now, Jefferson had a saying most appropriate...."if we can but prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy."
 
LousianaHorn said:
I dont believe in a consequence free life but I dont need the friggin federal government involved in it to the extent they are now, Jefferson had a saying most appropriate...."if we can but prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy."
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Louisana, I was half heartedly joking.

I think there are a few decent politicians out there from both parties, but the game is so watered down by the (social) media that they get over shadowed by the soundbite morons.

A guy like Admiral McRaven would be someone I could get behind. But he's way too good for that racket.
 
texas_ex2000 said:
I think there are a few decent politicians out there from both parties, but the game is so watered down by the (social) media that they get over shadowed by the soundbite morons.
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Very, very true. In the political world, ****-flinging is rewarded. Solving or attempting to solve real problems is not.
 
third parties get their agendas taken over in part by one of the two major parties and then they disappear. The only third party to ever emerge as a major was the gop, which grew out of the collapse of the whigs and evolved from the free soilers.

The reason why these parties can't get any traction now is because they don't have foot soldiers to do the local work getting out vtes and electing local pols. The people who block walk, sign up voters, encourage the inert to vote and get them to the polls are all enamored of the process and like to see their efforts crowned with success and the rewards of shaking hands with, talking with and having lunch with local pols is what motivates them and makes them think their drudge labor is worth the effort.

We could not even have elections were it not for all the political junkies who do the spade work locally. And the Greens et al cannot recruit and elect people locally and so don't get the political junkies on their side.

All the millions that pols raise for the bs ads that are so necessary are important but a waste of time if you don't have the huge cadres of dedicated locals tending to the grassroots work.

If a Libertarian or Green runs for office in your community please go volunteer to help and just watch how little grass roots help there actually is among people who do this sort of thing longterm. Answer: almost none.

THe prospects for a third party are non existent.

By the way, if you look at the election returns in rural and west Texas, it is pretty clear that the democratic party in this state doesn't exist as a statewide entity any more. They can win local elections in some places but not statewide and will not for the foreseeable future. And by foreseeable, I mean forty years out.

The brown wave so many dems are counting on is never going to form. Like anglos, hispanics become republicans when they get to be middle class to an extent that will undermine the perceived demographic advantages.
 
The brown wave so many dems are counting on is never going to form. Like anglos, hispanics become republicans when they get to be middle class to an extent that will undermine the perceived demographic advantages.
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Yeah while the Republicans worry that undocumented aliens will turn out to vote illegally for Democrats, I wonder why. Hispanics immigrants with legal status have, in general, little interest or trust in the political system. Even in the face of insults like Trump dealt, Hispanics are not so much Democrat or GOP. Political affiliation is mostly Apathy.

Maybe a third party responsive, interested and polite in connecting with Hispanics can energize and engage a significant population with, so far, comparatively small political impact.
 
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huisache said:
The brown wave so many dems are counting on is never going to form. Like anglos, hispanics become republicans when they get to be middle class to an extent that will undermine the perceived demographic advantages.
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That's definitely true in Texas. For whatever reason that didn't happen in California (perhaps because of Prop. 187), but it doesn't seem to be happening in Colorado or Nevada either.
 
In theory, more political parties would be a good idea, not just one more, but several more. The parties would have to form coalitions to pass any legislation, and some of each viewpoint would have to be included through compromises.
However, if the two current ruling parties would adhere to compromising, around which our government was designed to function, we wouldn't all be about to jump to several other political parties.
Doubt any other party could make any significant gains, with the way voting has been gerrymandered and restricted. You'd probably go to prison for voting for a libertarian or green candidate.
 
IMO the only way we get out of the whole mess - by which I mean mainly the deficit - is a third party, by some miracle or disaster, gaining sufficient power to impact governing forces. Neither party will currently take ANY effective action and by the same token, the corruption which controls the current state of affairs will prohibit any realistic growth of a third party.
 
You boys ready for this?

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@Dionysus you might need to update my title.
 
Walking, did you expect that result or were you more surprised how much you leaned to the two others and how much you had in common with them? I would have guessed you a democrat.
 
snek said:
Walking, did you expect that result or were you more surprised how much you leaned to the two others and how much you had in common with them? I would have guessed you a democrat.
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I'm not surprised by it at all. If anything, I'm a little sad that I wasn't more in line with the greens than the dems. Who'd a thunk... a (kind of) young minority chick from Austin being liberal????!!!!!??!!!!!
 
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