Iraq- need a Hong Kong for the ME

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

As Iraq falls apart again...I'm thinking the next time we decide to engage in the middle east we do it from a carrot approach. We basically annex a section of whatever country and turn it into a middle east version of Hong Kong. Let the people that are tired of typcial ME antics move into the FREE economic zone and slowly they become acculturated much like HK and by proximity...China.

I believe we convert people first via economic opportunity and then by introducing democracy...not the other way around.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

I still think this is the only way forward. We need to incubate a new Islamic center of gravity. Some place all these refugees can flee to. I think it is unlikely they will ever integrate into Western society to the extent that we need/want them to.

Right now, my vote would be to chop off a part of Syria. Wall it off (figuratively) and make it a haven for all the fleeing folks from the middle east. Start from scratch, control entry and let them start to build their own "Hong Kong". A little island of democracy in a sea of dictators. It would be the fastest growing city/country/zone in the world.

The problem with immigration is that the first generation is generally thankful to have a home that is safer and with a little better economic opportunity than the place they left. Second generations don't have the same "thankfulness". They believe they ARE ALREADY "Americans" or "French" or whatever, and that they have the same rights and are entitled to the full Western civilization experience RIGHT NOW!! And when reality is less than they feel they are entitled to, they get pissed. They form little enclaves of hate, they riot, they commit acts of terrorism.

So it's not generally the recent immigrant that creates the most issues, although recent activity suggest that this is a greater problem in Europe than most anticipated. It's their children.

I read a quote from a Cuban immigrant the other day. "in my head, I'm American...In my heart, I'm Cuban". This is the underlying sentiment of many immigrants. Many don't want to be "American's", they just want the stuff that "American" implies.

 

[iatrogenic]

Controlling entry is a problem. You would have to turn every Muslim away.

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

I wouldn't turn them away...they're the intended audience/inhabitants

 

[iatrogenic]

How do you separate the killers from the lovers? How do you prevent them from changing from Moderate to radical? Monitor the Mosques?

 

[BrntOrngStmpeDe]

For me, making them safe is not the primary objective. I'm most concerned about the existential threat to western civilization. My primary objective is having things like Nice, Orlando, etc...not happen here.

IMO, it is too big of threat and will cost too much (money, lives, values, etc) to integrate a group that doesn't really have the same values and belief system. They will always have a grievance of some sort. They won't ALL act in violent ways to express that grievance, but as we have seen over and over...it just takes one pissed off guy.

I do believe that they will be better able to police themselves in a Hong Kong/ME scenario, than we will. We can train them and support them and help them control entry and such, but ultimately we can't ensure their safety and security. It will be up to them.

I believe there are tens of thousands of immigrants that truly want a peaceful co-existence. Unfortunately, it is impossible to discern and root out the small percentage that don't. For one reason...many of them don't start out with thoughts of violence...they get there because they don't have a job, or a nice apartment or decent wife/family prospects. They want a life, but as an immigrant that life is out of their reach...even as second gen's in many places. They get angry when they can't achieve it and then they start reinforcing each other to the point that a small group decides to strike back at a system that treated them poorly.

But what can we(Western Civ) do about it. Germany can't guarantee all those immigrants menial jobs, much less good jobs. there are just too many. It will take decades to absorb the ones that have already immigrated/infiltrated. They aren't qualified to do high skill work, and most of the second gen's won't be either because they won't have a shot at a good education. And there's no answer for that either. I'm already pissed off about the number of undocumented/illegal immigrants that are taking positions at elite universities in the US. You think citizens of these countries are going to stand by as their governments start handing out scholarships to the poor and downtrodden immigrant wave. ??

It has to be a place they build. We can help keep the despots at bay and help with the skeleton of a civil society, but ultimately it will their job to flesh it out.

 

[iatrogenic]

I certainly support your primary objective. There will be many more events to come.