Interesting poll on views of capitalism

H

Horn6721

Hook'em
from Gallup
"PRINCETON, NJ -- Exemplifying a major partisan divide in modern politics, Democrats react significantly more positively to the term "federal government" than they do to the term "capitalism," while the opposite is true for Republicans. But both Democrats and Republicans are highly positive about the terms "small business," "free enterprise," and "entrepreneurs."

poll at linkThe Link

nothing earth shattering
just interesting
 
The polling showed that both Democrats and Republicans viewed small business overwhelmingly favorable. However Democrats viewed large business much less favorably than did Republicans.

Also, both Democrats and Republicans polled favorably when presented with the term free enterprise. But Democrats were much less likely to view Capitalism favorably than were Republicans.

It could be that Democrats are more inclined to associate modern day Capitalism as Crony-Capitalism where big business receives special favoritism via lobbying, tax breaks, etc., that smaller businesses don't get, whereas Republicans don't accept that view.

That's the best explanation I've come up with for the divergence.
 
I've always heard that the use of the term "capitalism" to describe a free economy was popularized in the West by Karl Marx and his followers, who obviously would have used it in a negative manner and context. Accordingly, it's no surprise that people would view the term negatively. Even GOP supporters don't like it as much as its synonyms. "Free enterprise" has always been the more positive term.

Of course, when people think of "small business" and "entrepreneurs," they think of the local barber shop, restaurant, bakery, etc. In reality, the terms are ambiguous and could really mean any closely-held or not publicly traded business enterprise.

That's why when the GOP talked about Obama's plan to increase taxes on those with over $250K of taxable income, they referred to "raising taxes on small businesses." Obviously they know that what most people would consider to be “small business owners” don't make anywhere near $250K per year in actual personal taxable income. However, they wanted people to think about Obama raising taxes on some nice old man running a barber shop on the local town square. They didn't want them thinking Obama raising taxes on Jerry Jones, even though one could argue that Jones is a "small businessman."
 
mrD

Really? YOU think most Dems know it was allegedly Marx who furst used the term and that is why Dems view the terms negatively?
I think that is a tad far fetched.
AS far as the term ' small business" is concerned depending on the nature of a business the guidelines for the gov't to define it as a small biz change

BUT Mr D Under no guidleines would jerry jones be considered a small business.

OTOH do you know between small biz and large biz which generates the more new jobs each year?

I always wonder what the Dems who see capitalism as evil do for a living. From where to they get their money?
i know a large% of Dems get their money from government, fedrail state county city schools. so I guess it is no surprise they don't understand why anyone would work for a profit.

edit to add
many small businesses run through biz thru their personal income as Sub chapter S and do make over 250k

the stat Bo throws out on the small biz making under 250k would most likely mean those who do not employ other people.
Many sub S's who make more than 250K do employ other people and they could be hurt .
 
I have always associated the term capitalism with finance as opposed to operating a business and I have always associated finance with the money changers in the temple whom Jesus seemed to find fault with..

Can't speak for the dems but that was my take

As for Marx, if you read the manifesto, his description of the creative power of capitalism is as good a one as I have ever read and his program at the end is modern western society except for the abolition of private property and I like all of it except the abolition of private property, which would destroy all the rest of the good stuff. He got the description right, he just prescribed the wrong remedy.
 
huis
if this is really your definition of capitalism. "I have always associated the term capitalism with finance as opposed to operating a business and I have always associated finance with the money changers in the temple whom Jesus seemed to find fault with..
then you need a better dictionary.

I am pretty sure most good defintions of capitalism would include the very things you don't think it does
ie a system where companies are privately owned and competition is favored.
Of course money is involved but the private ownership of manufacturing goods and the redistribution of is what defines capitalism and separates it from communism and pure socialism.

still don't quite understand how Dems think this is a bad thng


Prod
thanks for the link. small biz in fact creates most of the NEW jobs each year
again I don't know how dems think that is bad but their tax hike plan would stifle that job creation
 
Well the thing is that Deez is claiming the GOP is trying slight of hand, but it's the Dems and Warren Buffet who are doing that.

If we truly were talking about raising rates on "millionaires" only, and if those tax revenues were meaningful in decreasing the deficit, I would actually be OK with it. I do think that the impact wouldn't be as bad as some conservatives claim... again, assuming the above conditions, which are the ones the dems want people to believe.

Problem with that scenario is that none of it is true. Buffet doesn't care about any of this. He's filthy rich, and assuming he couldn't get out of paying the higher rates (which he will), they wouldn't hurt him. But they WOULD put more pressure on small business, which is what he wants. He makes a large part of his living in flipping small businesses that go bankrupt. Don't think for a second he's fighting to keep small businesses healthy; he's not. He knows that the burden of these taxes will fall squarely on the people he likes to exploit.

Buffet and people like him are very much in favor of the idea of the elite rich and the rest of the population, which must come to people like him for loans. He doesn't want people being self-sufficient and able to fund their own projects. That's why it baffles me that some who are so opposed to wealth disparity are constantly siding with the very people who are fighting to keep it in place.
 
6721: you say tomato and I say tomahto; I have owned several small businesses and ran my dad's when I was 17 and I have never thought of myself as a capitalist. I was a businessman; capitalists are the guys who let their money do the heavy lifting and I suspect that is how most of the dems see it as well,

I have several of the big, foot thick, Websters; here is the definition in the 1910 edition: an economic system in which capital or capitalists play the principal part;the concentration of capital; the power or influence of capital, as when in the hands of the few.

In the even bigger 1944 edition it has essentially the same definitions but does, as a third definition, include a description of a market economy with ownership in private hands and competition a major factor.

If given a description of capitalism and socialism I don't imagine you would find anything but a small fraction of dems favoring the latter.
 
Well huis
using your 1910 definition the ' capitalists" would be the ones owning the businesses, right?
Where do you think "capitalists" get finances/ money?
I'd guess from owning businesses

what is your guess?
 
The capitalists I know/have known own parts of companies but don't usually run them. They invest but don't operate; they identify capable business people and put some chips in.

My point is/was that the difference between dems and republicans on the subject of capitalism is definitional. More dems have a dim view of finance capital. They are fine with entrepreneural types.

If you read the liberal mags and quarterlies, that distinction is pretty obvious. Less so in the more conservative ones.

I know this interpretation runs counter to the gospel that dems are all a bunch of latent or overt socialists but I find that gospel unconvincing, just as I find unconvincing the idea that affirmative action opponents are a bunch of racists.

How do you explain the seeming contradiction in the fact that the dems react negatively to the term capitalism but but "highly positive" to "small business, free enterprise and entrepreneurs"?
 
Huis
I was merely pointing out to you that the capitalism refers to PRIVATE ownership of businesses. You tried to say it had nothing to do with businesess.
wrong. Private ownership of businesses IS capitalism.

That is a fact you can't dispute.
You can try to apply your own definition but nothing can change that capitalism means private people own the businesses.
 
PH,

If you carefully read what you posted from the article, it doesn't really say Obama is wrong with the 3 percent figure. All it really demonstrates is that the 3 percent that are included do a lot of business and hire a lot of people. (In other words, they aren't very small.)

I don't want my point to get lost here. I'm simply pointing out why the GOP used the rhetoric it used in attacking Obama's tax increase during the campaign. It's because they wanted people to associate the tax increases with small business enterprises who are politically popular, not wealthy individuals who are not.

Another point I don't want to get lost - I'm opposed to the tax increases - even on the 3 percent. My willingness to raise taxes is based solely on political reality, not because I think it's good policy or would make a major dent in our budget deficit.

After the election, the public clearly wants the tax increase on the top bracket. Furthermore, when both parties agreed to that goofy fiscal cliff, they pretty much guaranteed that there'd be an increase on the top bracket. Like I said in another thread, when the GOP agreed to the fiscal cliff, it effectively gambled the Bush tax cuts on Romney winning the election. They lost the gamble.
 
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