immigration bill passes senate

H

hornpharmd

5,000+ Posts
www.cnn.com/2013/06/27/politics/immigration/index.html?hpt=us_c2

Looks like the compromise has already been made to get this bill to pass the house. The bill includes everything the right has wanted including e-verify, border fence, and a large increase in border patrol officers. what a joke to me that Cruz and Cornyn voted no on this. only the radicals who are pro family but are against gay marriage and who want to break up families and deport millions are voting against this. I don't think they will do well with the Latino vote next election.
 
What if the left doesn't enforce the provisions it doesn't like if the bill passes?
 
In Deezestan, we would deport the illegal immigrants and fine the hell out of employers and contractors caught hiring illegal immigrants. However, we're not going to do that here. There's just too much corruption, and the public is far too stupid to understand what the hell's going on or whom to blame. It's pointless.

I've only read summaries on the bill (not the actual text), but based on what I've read, and given that both parties have basically sold out their country on the issue, this bill isn't bad. The expansion of the border patrol is pretty large. The e-verify stuff is also good. I'm not a fan of legal status not being conditional on the full implementation of the border security, but the GOP isn't going to get that and doesn't really want that anyway. It's a moot point.
 
This thing is hundreds of pork laden pages long. I know it's bad because Nancy Pelosi is encouraging Repubs to back it if they ever want to win the WH again.

Hopefully Boehner will grow a pair and keep to his promise of doing this thing in small, manageable pieces.
 
I wouldn't let anybody affected by this bill become a citizen until the fence is 100% complete. Pretty sure that both sides would be motivated to get it done quickly.
 
Immigration reform is needed but this bill is so poorly written even an idiot who can read understands how the public is being lied to about what this bill does,
it is sad to see how many are fooled including many on here

Question
Why would you be for a bill that makes it so employers have strong financial incentive to hire the newly designated "legal" over American citizens or eve legal immigrants who did it the right legal way?
 
In the 80s an attempt was made to cure the ills of the immigration reform enacted in the 60s. Reagan signed the bill and here we are thirty years later again reforming immigration. Like the 80s bill, this one legalizes millions of people who came in illegally. Whether they get citizenship as well as getting to stay forever is sort of beside the point except to democrats who have given up on capturing any significant part of the" 'white" vote. This one guarnatees many millions of more immigrants due to family already being here and does nothing to punish the SCUM SUCKING EMPLOYERS WHO BROUGHT THEM HERE AND KNOWINGLY BROKE THE LAW. But they are mostly white and republican so who cares?

ANd adding 20,000 BP agents just means billions a year more in federal paychecks and pensions forever and ever.

What a frigging disgrace.
 
I would agree, Larry, but it is billions that don't need to be spent. If you pitch a few employers in the federal pokie for a year or two, others would let their illegals go and there would be no jobs for them and they would, in Romney's felicitous phrase, "self deport."

I like having all the Mexicans around because it adds some tone to the town and creates better dining experiences, but it irks me that we are getting handled a big new burden to pay for and the criminals who induced them to come get off scot free.

The new bill has a provision that grants amnesty to the employers, just in case you didn't know. I don't know who slipped that jewel in but have noticed it has not raised any hackles excep[t mine.
 
Huis
They are touting that provision as being tough on the illegals, not granting them obamacare
and the supporters are buying it and saying it is good.

The question now is why now that it is understood how it will hurt blacks and Hispanics as well as teens why wouldn't Schumer and the party of blacks and Hispanics offer an amendment to correct it before they voted on it?
 
Huisache,

You are 100 percent right, and in Deezestan, I'd appoint you as Commissioner of Immigration and Domestic Security and let you fully implement your immigration policy. (I'd appoint Larry as Commissioner of Public Education and Cultural Enlightenment.) However, much to my disappointment, there isn't public support for the creation of Deezestan.

Since Deezestan is and in all reasonable probability will remain a hypothetical state, I have to deal with the reality of the United States. In the United States, I have completely given up on an intelligent solution to the immigration problem, because we are now a a nation of idiots. Furthermore, we are getting more idiotic as the intelligent people die off and get replaced by bigger idiots. However, it's worse than that. We've always had idiots, but the current generation of idiots is also unpatriotic and has ****** up priorities. It has all led to a toxic political situation that in my view can never be fixed.

The Republican Party was bought and paid for a long time ago on this issue. They're going to protect employers and give them a pass, as they always have. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the GOP side of the Gang of 8 wanted the employer amnesty. Furthermore, the GOP base consists of dumbasses who basically only direct outrage towards the Mexicans themselves, and the dumbest ones think employers are basically blameless. Furthermore, they're stubborn, and their minds are completely shut to any reality. They're a lost cause.

The Democratic Party has made a deal with the Devil. They're too liberal for most white people, but rather than shift to the middle to appeal to white people again, they'd rather overwhelm the nation with people who come from third-world conditions and would likely have a more leftist philosophy than your average white American. I don't think they give a **** about the consequences of this on the United States. All they know is that this path leads to Democratic empowerment, and that's all they care about.

What about the Democratic base (organized labor, young people, working class people, and blacks)? Immigration (of any kind) cheats them harder than it cheats anybody else. However, they're too easy to appease and even dumber than the Republican base. Protect government union workers' benefits (chump change compared to immigration), and unions will shut up. Young voters? Just sell the "diversity agenda," talk about how cool gays are, and give them easy access to rubbers, porn, and pot, and they'll be appeased. Black voters? Just race bait and keep a D by your name, and they'll be appeased.

So if we had a remotely patriotic political class or a remotely intelligent political base in either party, you'd have a great solution. However, this is an "if my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather" issue. The political class is crooked, and the political bases are too friggin' stupid to hold them accountable on the issue.

In light of that, why keep the illegals in limbo? I'd rather have a system that's orderly and screwed up than chaotic and screwed up.
 
MrD?
What about a bill that does NOT screw the low skilled Blacks, Hispanics and teens? Why reward illegals with jobs in their newly "legal' status at the expense of American citizens?

There are several troubling aspects of this bill but that aspect alone, making it cheaper for employers to hire newly legal illegals over American citizens and legal immigrants who respected our laws and did it the right way should be of concern to everyone.
 
Again, it is not the employers job to prove someone is legal or not, the Federal government should be able to tell you faster than 6 months whether someone is here legally or not. Most employers of Illegal immigrants are small/medium business owners that can't afford million dollar HR departments.

If they even come close to questioning someone's ID or legal or illegal status do you even have a clue what happens next? The business owner gets overwhelmed with lawyers protecting latino rights.

The Small/Medium business owner still pays them the going rate for the position there is very little under the table paying going on as once was rampant in the illegal hiring practices. Not to say it is not going on, but these days it is not the norm as it once was.......

The border must be secured first and e-verify updgraded to be better than 6 months then we can talk amnesty or pathway to citizenship.
 
me D
Employers may want it but any citizen would not IF the fact were known.

Hopefully some of the media will do their job and citizens , all citizens, will call for this to be changed.

Yes pass lege that will bring these people into our system but NOT at the expense of law abiding people.
 
This:
"Also, even if we remove whatever provisions make it cheaper to hire immigrant labor, that won't solve the problem or create a sound immigration policy. "

is sad that it is more important to pass a bill that benefits illegals and punishes those who came her legally or are US citizens.


We can create a better law that does not punish citizens at the expense of illegals.
 
MWA,

I've seen several small businesses use e-verify. It is not overly cumbersome. And it does not have to be perfect to be effective. Even if it only gets to a 75% solution. That alone would cause the vast majority of illegals to avoid applying for a job...IF...as soon as they are e-verified as an illegal, they are reported to authorities.

And all we need is a requirement that employers do appropriate due diligence before hiring someone. If the system takes more than two weeks, they can hire the person and be held harmless. All we need to do is give the employers that want to obey the law a reasonable tool to do so. All we need to do is find the employers that continue to willfully skirt the law and incarcerate them.

It is simple. It will work.

securing the borders with physical barriers is a farce.

Even for the very small operations, all they need is to go to a middle man that for a reasonable fee will do the everify check. Again, we are not looking to jail or fine employers that are working with the system to obey the law. We just want to take down the employers that know that they are hiring illegals.
 
A group called Black American Leadership Alliance has and is coming out strongly against the gang of 8 bill
They have and are contacting members of Congress to point out the harm the bill does to black Americans.
from the link
"Recognizing the effect amnesty of 12 million illegal aliens has on jobs in the black community, BALA has scheduled a protest march to the Capitol in DC on July 15th. BALA hopes to bring attention to the sky-high unemployment rate in the black community and the disastrous effect the proposed immigration legislation would have on the jobs market.

A letter from the BALA to Congress reads:


We write to express our serious concerns with Senate Bill 744. Given the fact that more than 13% of all blacks are unemployed – nearly double that of the national average, it is our position that each Member of Congress must consider the disastrous effects that Senate Bill 744 would have on low skill workers of all races, while paying particular attention to the potential harm to African Americans.

Credible research indicates that black workers will suffer the greatest harm if this legislation were to be passed. We are asking that you oppose Senate Bill S.744 because of the dramatic effect it will have on the availability of employment for African American "The Link
 
No one wants to enforce the laws on books now because it seems unfair to the 11 million here illegally>

Why then pass new laws that are unfair to legal citizens?'
 
OK
Mr D
Certainly you have heard that argument before by many.
but
Whatever the reason you think people say they don't want to enforce our laws regarding the however many millions are here illegaly

why then would people want to pass a law that will hurt so many legal immigrants and American citizens?
 
Now that BO has delayed the roll out of employer mandated coverage besides the fact that now it is BO and not the GOP who is obstructing implementation of this ohb so important law , think the delay in ANY way is calculated to silence the blacks and legal Hispanics who objected to the gang of 8 bill?

will the delay mean employers will now hire the huge pools of blacks and legal Hispanics instead of an illegal?


nah No politics there
 
Brntorngstampede:

If E-Verify worked like that but it does not......

The illegal immigrant thing is now a huge racket by run by very large cartels.

They get the illegals across the border, put them up in housing, get them stolen or fake id's, here in lies the major major problem.

It take E-Verify at least 6 months and whole bunch of individual research to find out if it is a fake name or stolen Identity.

If the employer even questions the validity of documents, within 24 hours they have a legal letter from an attorney representing Lulac.

Again, small businesses should not be burdened with having to find out if someone is using a fake id or not.

Now think about welfare programs, they never check to see if the ID's are real or not they just the welfare out like it is candy.

The illegal immigrant issue is more than Jesus coming across the border to pick oranges for the harvest season, it is a racket controlled by Mexican drug cartels that is specializing in cheap labor and the welfare system, tax system of the United States.

The border needs to be shut down and then we can discuss everything else. The number of 11 million is very low in my opinion.
 
There are two ways to lessen the burden on business:
1. As long as they took the right steps (e-verify with legit ID) then they are held harmless
2. Create a middleman/consolidator that does the e-verify for a number of businesses. Then the middleman/consolidator can afford to hire 'ID smart' people and can spot the fakes more easily. The small biz guy pays $35 to the middleman to vett a potential hire and the small biz owner is off the hook. They do this for drug screening already, it is not that much of a leap to apply it to ID screening.

Again, we don't have to be 100% successful to achieve the desired effect. Many individuals will self deport if there are no under-the-table jobs to be had. More importantly, it will stem the flow of new waves of illegals.

I would like to see a system where employers have an allotment of 'work visas' and they can recruit and sponsor immigrants based on the employers need. The employer would need to pay wages on par with legal citizen wages and provide language training. If they do that then I say let them hire until their hearts are content.

A sound immigration reform does five things in my mind:
1. documents (and begins to collect taxes) on everyone already here within the next 18 months
2. Sets a line in the sand and stems the flow of any further immigration problems and "secures the border"
3. Keeps the illegal immigrants from undercutting the labor market
4. Promotes integration into our culture (language primarily)
5. Provides a long range incentive for immigrants to play by the rules and become productive members of the workforce (to eventually earn citizenship)
 
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