HOW IS THE JUMP STOP NOT TRAVELING?
- Thread starter LikeMike
- Start date
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
I think the jump-stop is just stop dribbling and then land. It doesn't matter if you land with both feet at once ("jump-stop") or one after the other ("1-2 stop"). Or at least it shouldn't matter; it sometimes does because some refs will incorrectly call a 1-2 stop a travel. Either way, you're only taking two steps, the only difference is whether you've already forced one foot to be your pivot or if you still have an option.
GoHornsGo90
1,000+ Posts
Incorrect Stat, if you land with the 1-2 step it is an automatic travel and one of the fastest calls you'll see made on the court by good refs. A jump stop is technically only 1 step, as long as the feed land at the same time.
busterbrown16
1,000+ Posts
Google is your friend. From my high school days, I seem to remember a 1-2 step being legal. It appears Stat is correct.
"The traveling rule has not changed. What has changed is the common use of the jump stop as an offensive move. Officials and coaches are having difficulty determining the difference between a legal and illegal move. The key to making this determination properly is first finding the pivot foot. Then, if the player moves a foot or the feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball, a traveling violation has occurred. The limits follow:
1. A player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot.
2. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. If both feet are off the floor and the player lands;
(1) Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.
(2) On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot.
(3) On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
b. If one foot is on the floor;
(1) It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step.
(2) The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
3. After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
4. After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. Neither foot may be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a dribble."
"The traveling rule has not changed. What has changed is the common use of the jump stop as an offensive move. Officials and coaches are having difficulty determining the difference between a legal and illegal move. The key to making this determination properly is first finding the pivot foot. Then, if the player moves a foot or the feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball, a traveling violation has occurred. The limits follow:
1. A player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot.
2. A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. If both feet are off the floor and the player lands;
(1) Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.
(2) On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot.
(3) On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
b. If one foot is on the floor;
(1) It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step.
(2) The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
3. After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
4. After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. Neither foot may be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a dribble."
Stat is incorrect:
Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.
(2) On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot.
(3) On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case
In other words, you can't jump up and then take 2 steps. That is a travel, because your 1st foot that lands is the pivot foot, so if you take that second step you have traveled (by picking up your pivot foot).
It is still called today in high school and college by good refs, and pretty much never in the NBA (which really isn't basketball anyway these days).
Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.
(2) On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot.
(3) On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case
In other words, you can't jump up and then take 2 steps. That is a travel, because your 1st foot that lands is the pivot foot, so if you take that second step you have traveled (by picking up your pivot foot).
It is still called today in high school and college by good refs, and pretty much never in the NBA (which really isn't basketball anyway these days).
busterbrown16
1,000+ Posts
I'll let Stat speak for himself, but I think he is saying that a 1-2 jump stop is not traveling, which is what the question is. According to the rule, if you do a 1-2 step, then the second foot to land becomes your pivot foot. You cannot take two steps after a 1-2 jump stop, but you can take one step if it is with the non-pivot foot.
Rules 2a, and 2b cover it. If you pick up your dribble with both feet off the ground, the first foot that touches becomes the pivot, you are allowed to jump off that foot and land on both (the jump stop) and from there you are not aloud to pivot at all.
If you have one foot on the floor when you pick up your dribble that foot becomes your pivot and you are allowed to jump off of it and land on both feet (jump stop) and you are not allowed to pivot after that.
The confusion comes in where the ref has to determine whether one foot was on the ground or neither foot was on the ground when the dribble is picked up (neither foot would be in mid stride). So technically if you picked up your dribble with your right foot on the ground then you jumped off your left foot and landed on both (jump stop) you would be traveling.
I think most refs just let it go though because it is hard to tell whether one foot or no feet were on the ground when the dribble was picked up.
If you have one foot on the floor when you pick up your dribble that foot becomes your pivot and you are allowed to jump off of it and land on both feet (jump stop) and you are not allowed to pivot after that.
The confusion comes in where the ref has to determine whether one foot was on the ground or neither foot was on the ground when the dribble is picked up (neither foot would be in mid stride). So technically if you picked up your dribble with your right foot on the ground then you jumped off your left foot and landed on both (jump stop) you would be traveling.
I think most refs just let it go though because it is hard to tell whether one foot or no feet were on the ground when the dribble was picked up.
busterbrown16
1,000+ Posts
One thing is for sure, it is an amazingly difficult call to make. Bang, bang so to speak. But these guys are paid pretty well and trained to catch this kind of stuff.
GoHornsGo90
1,000+ Posts
Buster:
It's a ***** of a call for sure. I have reffed and it's a tough call to make because it happens SO freakin' quickly and most of the time people's feet are covered so it's hard to see in the first place. Trust me, I'm sure half the sources you find on the Internet have no earthly idea how to make that call.
When it comes to reffing, it eventually becomes a "feel" thing, which sounds terrifying as a fan but is the only real way to control the game
It's a ***** of a call for sure. I have reffed and it's a tough call to make because it happens SO freakin' quickly and most of the time people's feet are covered so it's hard to see in the first place. Trust me, I'm sure half the sources you find on the Internet have no earthly idea how to make that call.
When it comes to reffing, it eventually becomes a "feel" thing, which sounds terrifying as a fan but is the only real way to control the game
B
Bluepies
Guest
My problem with the whole thing is the idea that you're allowed to stop dribbling, then touch the ground with a different foot three times.
Normally, you stop dribbling with one foot on the ground. You may keep that one foot on the ground at take one more step. You may not jump, then land on both feet. In fact, I bet if you tried hopping off one foot and landing on the other, you'd get called for traveling. There's a difference between pivoting off one foot and jumping off of it.
With the jump stop, if you stop dribbling even EARLIER, you can put one foot on the ground, jump off it, and land with BOTH feet on the ground, then jump again. That's essentially THREE steps after you stopped dribbling, where you get only ONE if you stopped dribbling while on the ground. If you wanna get picky and say landing on one foot isn't a step, it's establishing a pivot, then you should still only get to put one more foot on the ground after that. Jumping, then landing on both feet is putting two feet on the ground, or in my book, taking two steps after you've established a pivot.
I can certainly understand being allowed to grab the ball in midair and come down on both feet. But imagine this scenario: you go up for a rebound, get it with both hands. Land on one foot, hop forward, land on both feet, jump again. Wouldn't that be traveling? Somehow though, that's OK if you had the ball before?
Normally, you stop dribbling with one foot on the ground. You may keep that one foot on the ground at take one more step. You may not jump, then land on both feet. In fact, I bet if you tried hopping off one foot and landing on the other, you'd get called for traveling. There's a difference between pivoting off one foot and jumping off of it.
With the jump stop, if you stop dribbling even EARLIER, you can put one foot on the ground, jump off it, and land with BOTH feet on the ground, then jump again. That's essentially THREE steps after you stopped dribbling, where you get only ONE if you stopped dribbling while on the ground. If you wanna get picky and say landing on one foot isn't a step, it's establishing a pivot, then you should still only get to put one more foot on the ground after that. Jumping, then landing on both feet is putting two feet on the ground, or in my book, taking two steps after you've established a pivot.
I can certainly understand being allowed to grab the ball in midair and come down on both feet. But imagine this scenario: you go up for a rebound, get it with both hands. Land on one foot, hop forward, land on both feet, jump again. Wouldn't that be traveling? Somehow though, that's OK if you had the ball before?
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
GoHornsGo90
1,000+ Posts
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
How is this:
GoHornsGo90
1,000+ Posts
Because I didn't post either of those comments...
busterbrown16
1,000+ Posts
For it to be a "legal" jump stop you have to jump off of both feet and land on both feet at the same time. No step allowed before or after the jump.
The problem, as someone already stated, is that it's hard to see feet, and determine if they left the ground/landed at the same time.
The problem, as someone already stated, is that it's hard to see feet, and determine if they left the ground/landed at the same time.
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
GoHornsGo90
1,000+ Posts
TigerPride
1,000+ Posts
I referee and it is a travel virtually every time.........it's generally a three or four step move. My cohorts generally never call it , but no one want to call a charge anymore either.
Two forgotten, ignored rules.
Two forgotten, ignored rules.
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
GoHornsGo90
1,000+ Posts
Now we're talking!
ImissWallyPryor
1,000+ Posts
TigerPride
1,000+ Posts
notreally
1,000+ Posts
it is fairly easy to tell if it was a travel or not. for instance, i am right handed. when i go up on the right side of the goal, and most any time unless i am shooting left handed, i jump off my left foot. every layup, every drive, every time. so, the first step is with my right foot as i pickup the dribble. the second step is with my left as i go off the ground.
with a jump stop, in order for me not to travel, i must use that first step (my right foot) to "jump" and then land on BOTH feet at a stop.... jump-stop. BOTH feet take the place of what would normally be my second step, off my left foot, going towards the goal.
if i travel it is because of one of two things, and both are pretty easy to see.
1. i jump off my left foot, shooting right handed, and THEN come to a stop. that means i took an extra step because i can't shoot off my right foot, right handed.... and hardly anyone else at any level can either. if you think i am stretching the truth, go try it. you'll look really dumb.
2. don't land on BOTH feet.
the problem usually is the person doing it....
1. does it awkwardly. usually slowly, which looks like a travel because you can do the jump stop much slower than you can the standard two step lift off.
2. doesn't land on both feet at the same time. although they might be close, it must be at the same time.
3. jump off the left foot (or right if shooting left handed) THEN come to a jump stop. that is a three step move.
it's not that hard to comprehend, and it is legal, and should continue to be.
with a jump stop, in order for me not to travel, i must use that first step (my right foot) to "jump" and then land on BOTH feet at a stop.... jump-stop. BOTH feet take the place of what would normally be my second step, off my left foot, going towards the goal.
if i travel it is because of one of two things, and both are pretty easy to see.
1. i jump off my left foot, shooting right handed, and THEN come to a stop. that means i took an extra step because i can't shoot off my right foot, right handed.... and hardly anyone else at any level can either. if you think i am stretching the truth, go try it. you'll look really dumb.
2. don't land on BOTH feet.
the problem usually is the person doing it....
1. does it awkwardly. usually slowly, which looks like a travel because you can do the jump stop much slower than you can the standard two step lift off.
2. doesn't land on both feet at the same time. although they might be close, it must be at the same time.
3. jump off the left foot (or right if shooting left handed) THEN come to a jump stop. that is a three step move.
it's not that hard to comprehend, and it is legal, and should continue to be.
notreally
1,000+ Posts
and the reason you don't see any coaches teaching it is because it is still a relatively 'new' move by most standards and has roots in streetball......
but it is taught these days, and it isn't going anywhere.... so you all better get used to it.
The Link
The Link
there is also some interesting writing out there about whether you should be able to pivot after a jump stop. of course the easy answer would be no, but one site talked about a jump stop in relation to receiving a pass. when receiving a pass, you could still have a pivot foot because you gained possession of the ball "during" the jump stop. which is just interesting to me because i have never considered using it off the pass.... only when i have the ball.
but it is taught these days, and it isn't going anywhere.... so you all better get used to it.
The Link
The Link
there is also some interesting writing out there about whether you should be able to pivot after a jump stop. of course the easy answer would be no, but one site talked about a jump stop in relation to receiving a pass. when receiving a pass, you could still have a pivot foot because you gained possession of the ball "during" the jump stop. which is just interesting to me because i have never considered using it off the pass.... only when i have the ball.
Recent Threads
-
Next year and the portal is now open
- Started by Walking Boss
- Replies: 131
- Men’s Basketball
-
Huskers - aggy
- Started by Dionysus
- Replies: 11
- Men’s Basketball
-
Hunter declares for NBA
- Started by old65horn
- Replies: 14
- Men’s Basketball
-
2023/2024 Season - RT Era Begins
- Started by TempestHorn
- Replies: 87
- Men’s Basketball
-
Football and Baseball vs Basketball Standards
- Started by ronich
- Replies: 5
- Men’s Basketball
-
NBA Finals
- Started by guy4321
- Replies: 48
- Men’s Basketball
-
ESPN Top 100 Westlake's Brock Cunningham commits!
- Started by ronich
- Replies: 15
- Men’s Basketball
-
Tournament Terry--that's his name
- Started by Chop
- Replies: 53
- Men’s Basketball
-
Mavericks
- Started by bystander
- Replies: 87
- Men’s Basketball
Prediction Results Threads
