Greece rattling Euro Zone

[Hu_Fan]

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into water... meaning bet the farm on the Euro and EU...

First, three weeks ago...this from NYT:
"FRANKFURT — The European Central Bank said on Thursday that it would begin buying hundreds of billions of euros worth of government bonds in an aggressive — though some say belated — attempt to prevent the eurozone from becoming trapped in long-term economic stagnation.

The bank’s president, Mario Draghi, said the central bank would begin buying bonds worth 60 billion euros, or about $69.7 billion, a month." (NY Times, usually subscription, so just google it.. "E.C.B. Stimulus Calls for 60 Billion Euros in Monthly Bond-Buying" NYT, 22-Jan-2015)

Now add this...

Greek finance minister says euro will collapse if Greece exits -- Reuters, Feb 8

In reply to:

---

---

 

[Mr. Deez]

All I know is that I'm paying far less for Euros than I ever have. I've read that the ECB buying government bonds is the primary cause of that.

As for Greece, I know the Germans are losing their patience, because they get ripped off the worst on these bailouts. However, there is some progress. This Marxist nut in Greece was calling for default a few months ago. At least he isn't doing that now.

The Euro is a stupid concept. Relatively responsible and ethical nations like France, Germany, and the Benelux can't share a currency with nations where corruption is socially acceptable (Greece, Portugal, and Italy). Problems are bound to arise. That's why we don't share a currency with Mexico. I'm surprised the whole system has lasted as long as it has.

Nevertheless, the Eurozone doesn't need Greece. If they left, it would hurt initially, but they'd probably be better off long term.

 

[Monahorns]

Blaming Greece and other Southern European countries for all of the EU's problems is a mistake.

Having the same currency as Germany has hurt them very badly. Usually a country like Greece gets an export boost when their currency is devalued, so being tied to the Euro is a lose-lose for them. The setup of the EU benefits the German export based economy systematically. Greece's officials understand this and are pressuring for a little relief from the debt they have incurred due to the systematic problems they face. That doesn't excuse Greece's inefficient social system and corruption. That is something they are going to have to put in order themselves but to put all the blame on them isn't fair.

 

[Mr. Deez]

In reply to:

---

---

 

[Larry T. Spider]

In reply to:

---

---

 

[Musburger]

The German banks that lent billions of dollars to Greece (and Spain, and Italy) were not forced. They made a conscious decision to lend money, believing that what could not be repaid by the Greek Goverment, would be transferred to the European citizenry. In other words, the crooks resided in the Greek Goverment, but also the German banks, and the EU (unelected) leadership.

Keep in mind, probably no nation has ever defaulted on more debt than did Germany, many decades past.

 

[l00p]

I look forward to a stupid arrogant move by the Greeks whose laziness and corruption are a major part in their situation. Then when they collapse I can go and buy some beach houses and rent them on airbnb for awhile, maybe retire in one a few decades from now. Please, Greece, step on your man member soon so I can invest.

 

[Musburger]

Greece has already collapsed. They have nothing to lose really. The newly elected government may not be ideologically to your liking, but at least they don't appear to be so corrupt. The EU is basically forcing them out so don't be surprised if Greece goes to Russia for help. By the way, the new Finance Minister used to lecture at the University of Texas LBJ School of Public Affairs as recently as 2013. He is honest, charismatic, and very intelligent.

Yanis Varoufakis

 

[Bevo1970]

This post was made just before going to the new 2015 platform. Post as normal after it if you wish.

Mr. Deez
(2500+ posts)
02/10/15 02:22 AM

Re: Greece rattling Euro Zone

In reply to:
The German banks that lent billions of dollars to Greece (and Spain, and Italy) were not forced. They made a conscious decision to lend money, believing that what could not be repaid by the Greek Goverment, would be transferred to the European citizenry.

They don't deserve to be bailed out by the European citizenry. However, they do deserve to be paid back with interest by their creditor. None of this absolves Greece.

In reply to:
Keep in mind, probably no nation has ever defaulted on more debt than did Germany, many decades past.


You mean reparations? There's a pretty big difference between defaulting on war reparations that were involuntary and defaulting on a normal, contractual loan.


Musburger
(500+ posts)
02/10/15 06:20 AM
Re: Greece rattling Euro Zone

Deez, if you knowingly lend money to a homeless person to purchase a house, do you really deserve to be paid back?

Unlike the above analogy with the homeless man, the Greek public has assets that can be sold off to creditors (privatized). This is simply stealing from the public and required the joint cooperation of a corrupt Greek Goverent), corrupt banks (Goldman falsified accounting reports that made Greece's entrance into the EU possible), and corrupt EU administrators. The EU and Germany can go to hell.