Good News about a Fantastic Coffee Maker

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brntorng

2,500+ Posts
I've posted before about how the discontinued Krups Moka Brew coffee maker brews exceptional coffee. It's my every day brewer and I've been worried about the day mine dies since Krups discontinued it in the US a couple of years ago, reportedly because it's an unusual design and they got too many returns from clueless consumers. (A 240V version has apparently been sold in Europe for decades.) Well, Krups has reconsidered their decision and are selling it in the US again.

The Moka Brew got great reviews when it was previously available and is a favorite among coffee geeks who appreciate outstanding coffee. If you're in the market for a new coffee maker, give some consideration to this one. Another excellent line is made by Technivorm, but they run over $200.
 
What was it people didn't like?

I know I am going to regret asking this but what makes it better than say a Bunn?

OK beat me up now, just make sure i learn something from the arse whipping
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I'm only speculating, but here are some thoughts as to why it may have had excessive returns: It requires a fairly fine grind, close to espresso grind. If people used it with regular drip grind the coffee would turn out under extracted and lacking flavor. I would recommend using a burr grinder set between drip grind and espresso grind, perhaps slightly closer to espresso. It doesn't have a timer, but it would work with an external timer. It doesn't allow you to pour a cup during the brewing cycle since the water system is pressurized with steam and can't be interrupted. It's listed as an 8 cup brewer, but they're 5 oz cups so you get a total of 40 ozs if you make a full pot.

I don't have a problem with its basic feature set since it makes a great cup of coffee. Definitely makes coffee that is more rich and flavorful than a typical drip brewer. This is because the vast majority of consumer drip coffee makers don't get the water hot enough for proper extraction. This is one of the few that does. Also, it has a very well designed coffee basket that evenly saturates the coffee grounds. I would add that it does best with excellent coffee beans since it does such a good job of extracting the flavor from them. Also, it's best to get a separate thermal carafe and pour any extra coffee into that as soon as it's done brewing.

BTW, the Technivorms also do a great job of brewing at the proper temperature and are designed more like a conventional drip brewer. However, they are definitely pricier.

I've heard mixed reviews on the Bunns. Some apparently brew at the proper temperature and some don't.

Also, for a quick single cup or two consider an Aeropress. It makes better coffee than a French press and is also great for traveling or at the office.
 
I enjoy a good cup of coffee and I consume quite a bit each day I'm sure you would turn your nose up at.

I wouldn't mind making better coffee at home. I know very little about it however. I have learned more from your posts here than I knew previously in total.

Here at the ranch house I use bottled water (the water here is good but it is very hard) generally I buy preground coffee (starbucks cafe verona- which i learned about here) and I think the coffee maker in the kitchen is a Bunn. There is some European looking thing in the hanger out back that I think makes better coffee. But that may just be because I don't make it
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and run out raid theirs on occassion.

I may just give this thing a shot. Thanks for the advice.
 
One of the best things you can do is find fresh roasted whole bean coffee and grind it just prior to brewing. By fresh roasted I mean that it was roasted within the past week. Starbucks beans generally won't meet that level of freshness. Nor will the bulk beans at your local grocer. If possible, find a local roaster and ask for a medium roast of a Central American bean like Guatemalan. Also, try a Kenyan medium roast for something with more of a bite (acidity or brightness to coffee geeks). If the beans are fresh a rich crema (foamy head like on an espresso) will form during the first half of the brew cycle. That's something you normally won't see with a conventional drip brewer. Bottled or filtered water is also a good idea. A couple of things about the Moka Brew: start with 50 grams of beans for a whole pot and adjust from there depending on your taste. Also, use the bottom of a spoon to lightly tamp the ground coffee level in the filter basket before brewing.

Good luck!
 
I have said it before and I will say it again: you don't need more than about three dollars to buy the very best cup of coffee you can brew.

I have a very nice krups machine, a French press, a Pezzetti Aluminium Stove Top coffee maker and many other fancy accoutrements. They are all gathering dust in a cabinet in my kitchen.

All you need is a plastic or ceramic cone filter, like this one:



120291coffee_manualdrip.jpg




and a brown melitta # 2 coffee filter.


Grind up your beans to an espresso grind, put the desired amount in the coffee filter, put the coffee filter in the ceramic cone, and put the cone on top of a coffee cup. Pour boiling water in and let it drip into the cup.

I PROMISE you guys ---- PROMISE ON STACK OF BIBLES ----- that it is the best cup of coffee you will ever make. And you don't end up wasting any because you make it a cup at a time.

Go to the HEB and get a ceramic or plastic cone (whatever they have) and a box of # 2 filters for about a buck and a quarter.

You will never, ever go back.
 
Use these instructions for the AeroPress, not the ones that come with it. For best results you'll want to get a burr grinder (not the whirly blade type) so you have fresh ground beans ground close to an espresso grind.

HE, nothing wrong with a filter cone to make a good cup of coffee. They're really nothing more than a manual drip brewer with the added advantage that you can control the water temperature to be above 195F which makes them better than virtually all automatic drip machines. I suspect the plastic cones are better than the ceramic because they have less thermal mass and will keep the water hotter while it's brewing unless you preheat the ceramic. I've used them and would agree that they're probably the cheapest way (at least the plastic ones) to make a good cup of coffee if you use them properly.

The advantage that the Moka Brew has over other methods is that it brews under pressure like an espresso machine, albeit lower pressure. As a result it can control the steeping time since it periodically forces water through the grounds. Also, since it is pressurized it can deal with a finer grind and get more complete extraction without over extraction. With a drip brewer the steeping time will vary depending on the grind and amount of coffee grounds used since it relies only on gravity and you can easily end up with over or under extraction. With the Moka Brew you get a crema unlike any other machine I've seen or used (except espresso) and the brew is definitely richer. Actually, the Moka Brew and AeroPress use fairly similar methods except one is automatic and one is manual. Maybe that's why they both produce outstanding coffee.
 
Great thread. I started drinking coffee late in the game, just in the last year or so and I am just now learning the intricacies of coffee. Brntorng you really know your stuff. Did you work in a coffee shop at some point?
 
No, never worked in a coffee shop other than my kitchen. For whatever reason I just got interested in fine coffee and have done a lot of reading and experimentation. It would definitely qualify as a serious hobby at this point. I've been roasting my own beans for regular coffee and espresso for several years and have tried a lot of different brew methods and coffee origins to find the ones I prefer. To summarize how to make an excellent cup of coffee:

-- You have to start with the best beans that have been freshly roasted and properly stored. As with any natural product, most coffee beans are very ordinary. Only a small fraction of each year's crop is special. Those are the ones you want. I buy my green (unroasted) beans from Sweet Maria's. They search the world for the finest beans available and make them available to home roasters. Home roasting isn't any harder than a high school science lab, but it's not for everyone. Sweet Maria's is a valuable resource for anyone interested. If you want to try truly outstanding beans that have been properly roasted, order some from Stumptown Coffee Roasters. You can use these as a baseline to try to find a comparable local roaster. Truly great beans are usually at their best with a medium roast. Beans are usually dark roasted to conceal defects. However, darker roasted beans for espresso are an exception.

--Roasted coffee beans should be stored in an airtight container and used within a couple of weeks of roasting. Any roasted coffee that needs to be stored longer should be frozen in an airtight container, preferably vacuum sealed bags, and brought to room temperature before subsequent use. Freezing for a month or so should result in minimal degradation of the beans.

--Coffee beans need to be ground just prior to brewing using a burr grinder, not a whirly blade grinder. Generally speaking, the grind should be as fine as possible without interfering with the brewing method or resulting in excessive grinds in the brew.

--Water should be high quality drinking water. Some hardness is ok, but not so much that it limes up brewing equipment.

--Brew temperature is critical. 195 to 205F is considered ideal. Very few drip brewers achieve this temperature. All Technivorms do. The Krups Moka Brew does. Other than that, they're few and far between. Other excellent brewing methods include a press pot (French press), vacuum pot, AeroPress, and manual drip cone. The Stumptown and Sweet Maria's sites have details on these and other methods. For manual methods, timing the brewing process is important so be sure to read up and pay attention.

--Brewed coffee should not sit on a hot plate to stay warm. It needs to be stored in a vacuum insulated thermal carafe and consumed promptly. Some coffees will retain good flavor for hours and others are very volatile and go bad in less than 30 minutes so the storage time is highly variable.

--Keep brewing equipment clean. Coffee contains oil that can accumulate on brewing equipment and turn rancid spoiling your coffee.

--Making excellent coffee isn't rocket science, but attention to detail will mean the difference between a cup that's barely drinkable and one that is outstanding. The problem is, once you grow accustomed to excellent coffee it's difficult to drink anything else.

Adding a link to a recent coffee maker test by Cooks Illustrated.
 
Maybe my palette just isn't refined enough, but I have always been satisfied with my Cuisinart grind and brew coffeemaker. I use water filtered through my fridge's filtrations system, and the maker also has a charcoal filter, which I guess might get it a little cleaner....Jamaican Blue Mountain beans are the best I've ever had, but at $36/lb I don't often drink them. I really like Seattle's Best Blend, and Starbuck's Anniversary Blend.
 
One good thing about the Grind and Brew is the beans will be fresh ground which is important. However, if you read the Cooks Illustrated review you will note that it came up short on brew temperature like most brewers. Since so many drip brewers with suboptimal temperature are used today, I suspect most people have accepted the resulting tolerable brew without realizing it can be much better. I know I did for many years.

Another key to excellent coffee that is almost always violated is using fresh roasted beans. After a week, roasted beans are going down hill. After two weeks it's very obvious and much after that they belong in the trash. They're not that much different than bread when it comes to freshness. It's just not visually obvious. Virtually any coffee you buy in a grocery store or at Starbucks will be at least two weeks old and probably much older than that. An exception is Costco's coffee that's roasted on premises. If you buy one of their giant fresh-roasted bags, freeze it into portions that you can use in a week and use them as needed. And, of course, whole bean only. Grind at home, never at the store. In addition, some local coffee shops sell fresh roasted beans. As a guide to roast level, most people will like a good bean at a medium roast. A good rule to know is that if the beans are oily then they are probably over roasted either because the beans were poor quality or the roaster was incompetent. The reason I bring this up is that unless you're using freshly roasted beans you'll miss out on a lot of coffee's flavor. It's probably not your palate. It's your beans and brew temperature. Fix those and, trust me, your taste buds are in for a BIG surprise from flavors you didn't know were possible.

Nothing wrong with Jamaican Blue Mountain beans if they're properly roasted. Three reasons they're high-priced: 1) Japan buys most of the crop so there's a supply and demand issue elsewhere, 2) limited growing region, and 3) excellent marketing by the Jamaicans. While JBM is consistently very good, there are other similar beans from Latin America that are just as good or better at a fraction of the cost but without marketing.

Most water filtering systems should be fine for coffee. If it tastes good as drinking water then it's not likely to create off-flavor coffee. However, if it's not really good drinking water it will impart the same bad taste to coffee.

Seattle's Best (a Starbucks brand) tends to be a more medium roast than the Starbucks, aka Charbucks, brand. That's a good sign for your palate. I haven't tried the Anniversary Blend, but I see it's a Pacific/Indonesian origin. Very different than JBM.
 
Crazy. I have never been a coffee drinker. Once every five years or more I will be in a situation where I drink a small cup. I am too amped about the horns all the time to have any artificial stimulants.

Well low and behold last Friday in Dallas we did some damage at a sports bar and after we got back to the room to prep for the next round, I saw a Starbucks pouch that looked tasty. I made a cup of joe and loved it.

I may have another one soon after reading this!
 
BrntOrng - - you should try the anniversary blend...I can't stand most Starbuck's coffee, but it is really good. Definitely the best Starbucks I've had. Other ones that they make that I sometimes buy are Verona and Costa Rican. Other than that I try to stay away from Starbucks....there's a place around the corner from my house, Cafe Java, who's coffee is a ton better than Starbucks.
 
Mrmyke, I resemble that comment.

Actually, I restrict my coffee drinking to one 16 oz mug a day and a double espresso on Sat and Sun. I shoot for quality over quantity. But, yes, I do have coffee--as a topic--on the brain. Feel free to ignore my caffeine induced ranting about subrate coffee. Just trying to raise the standard for coffee as many others on here have done for me on other topics.
 
What do you know about beans from Guatemala? I recently bought some freshly roasted Guatemalan beans from Trianon (link) and it was the best coffee I have ever had.

It had a very distinctive flavor and aroma. Your thought?
 
Guatemalan coffee is my overall favorite. Good to hear you were happy with Trianon's beans. They were my preferred Austin source for roasted beans before I started roasting my own. They actually understood the importance of roast profiles and offered a variety of roast levels.
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I had since heard that Anderson's had good beans and went there to check them out thinking I might learn something about roasting. Once there, I discovered they dark roast everything.
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You might enjoy reading about Guatemalan coffee at Sweet Maria's. Also, you might find Tom's travelogues of his coffee buying trips there to be interesting. He has similar descriptions of virtually all the coffee producing regions in the world which might help you to make future bean selections.
 
I have been home roasting beans from Sweet Maria's like brntorng for over a year with a $10 hot-air popcorn popper I got off Ebay. It took a little while to learn about the cracks and what to look for as far as roasting levels, but it is pretty easy. My favorite drip coffee at the moment is dry processed Limu beans (very sweet coffee, very smooth & long finish) from Ethiopia and for espresso I just use Tom's monkey blend. I also like Tom's Moka Kadir blend - Yemeni coffee is pretty wild stuff.

The thing I like about home roasting is that is a relatively cheap hobby to take to the 80/20 point and you can geek out to your heart's content past that point. A basic setup is $10 for a popcorn popper and $5-6 a pound for green coffee which turns out cheaper than the $8 bulk stuff I use to get at HEB.
 
JaySquared, good to see there's a fellow roaster on here. I roasted with a $5 resale shop popcorn popper for a couple of years until I dropped it and it broke.
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I loved the roast I got from it and only decided to move on in order to do larger roasts. Now I use a Galloping Gourmet convection roaster/bread machine motor combo that does a pound at a time and came to a total of $25 from resale shops. I still prefer the popper roast, though. I'm gathering the parts to build a 1.5 pound hot air roaster that I'll hopefully find the time to finish some day.

I really like the Ethiopian and Kenyan coffees which are in line with the Limu you mentioned. I always order those and Guatemalan and then experiment with whatever else looks good. I've tried all of Tom's espresso blends several times and have settled on the Monkey Blend as my favorite with the Moka Kadir close behind. I also recently got a couple of Yemeni lots that made fantastic single origin espresso. I see he still has some of the Yemen Mokha Sharasi which was awesome so I'll need to get another order in while it's still available.

The thing I like about home roasting is it's easy, actually saves money, and I get to start every day enjoying the rewards. How many hobbies can accomplish that?
 
ok brntorng, after reading this thread you have me intrigued.....my gf and i both LOVE coffee and this seems like something we should be doing. it at the very least sounds fun and i'm sure we will both end up loving the resulting coffee we experiment with trying.

can you reccommend a good place to start...a couple of middle of the road beans that vary enough to offer a variety. i have visited SweetMarias

and would appreciate your recommendation.

www.sweetmarias.com/prod.greencoffee.mvc.shtml

i plan on picking up the krups as well as a hot air popper...any other suggestions?

btw, i read on the reviews about that brewer that you have order special filters but someone suggested using 2 of the 3.5" filters, would you agree this is acceptable?


The Link


thanks in advance....

jg
 
JG, Moka Brew filters are readily available from multiple sources including Amazon. I get mine here. I wouldn't jack with trying to make other filters work. A good fit is important to keep grounds out of the brew.

As far as Sweet Maria's green beans: All of the Guatemalans look good right now. Read the descriptions and pick one that appeals to your taste buds.

This El Salvadoran Cup of Excellence should be good. Every CoE bean I've tried has been outstanding.

This Ethiopian is a good choice. I'll explain why later.

This Kenyan looks good. Or this Kenyan offers a more classic Kenyan experience.

For something good, but unique, try this Yemeni bean. It will help you understand what Tom classifies as "wild".

In general, South American beans don't stand out. There are exceptions, but it's hard for them to beat the Central Americans. The Kenyan coffee industry is very well run and as a result they produce outstanding coffee. Classic Ethiopian beans that you'll want to keep an eye out for are Yirga Cheffe and Harar. SM's doesn't have any right now, but they're hard to beat. In particular, I've had Harars that you'd swear had blueberry flavoring added. While beans like Hawaiian Kona and Jamaican Blue Mountain are good beans, they're overpriced due to outstanding marketing rather than unique quality. I'd put any number of Central Americans up against them at a small fraction of the price.

BTW, the lots listed for sale on Sweet Maria's often sell out within a few months, some sooner, some later. Once it's gone, it's gone. Therefore, if you find a bean you really like you may want to place another order for it before it disappears. Green beans easily last 6 months or more in storage without degrading.

I usually just buy one pound of a wide variety of beans. For me, it's about discovering unique characteristics and not getting into a coffee rut. I shoot for 20 pounds per order to fit into one of their flat rate shipping boxes to minimize shipping. However, I wouldn't suggest diving in that deep until you're sure it's a hobby you're going to want to continue with.

Some roasting pointers in no particular order:

Get a popcorn popper that blows hot air from the sides of the roast chamber, not directly from the bottom.

Get a small digital scale like this one. This will allow you to weigh green beans for roasting (4 oz at a time for a popcorn popper) as well as roasted beans for grinding/brewing. It allows you to be much more consistent in your results.

Get a good thermometer to monitor your roast level. Some beans don't produce much of an audible crack so it's hard to know when to stop the roast unless you're monitoring the bean temperature. I have a digital one with a thermocouple, but the other ones should work fine, too.

Get a burr grinder. If you're not planning on doing espresso then just about any burr grinder will be fine. They're priced from $50 and up.

Read this.

a target="_blank" href="http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasting-VisualGuideV2.html">Become familiar with this chart. In Tom's coffee reviews he'll tell you what roast level is recommended to achieve various characteristics in the roasted coffee. For example, when he says to shoot for a C+ roast, he's referring to a City + roast, #10 on this chart. I've found that the temperatures he lists are very close to what I get in a popcorn popper, but the times will vary depending on the roaster.

Roast outdoors or you'll be setting off your smoke alarms. When the weather gets cold you may need to wait to roast on a warm day or enclose your popcorn popper with a cardboard box on the top and three sides to allow it to draw in warm air. Otherwise you may not be able to achieve high enough roast temperatures

Put a container of some sort in front of the popcorn popper chute to catch the chaff from the beans.

Get a metal colander to cool your beans in and to remove excess chaff. Chaff doesn't flavor the coffee, but it does create a mess if you don't remove most of it.

Some roasts will have "quakers", unripe beans that don't roast properly. They'll be significantly lighter than the other roasted beans. Just pick them out and discard them if you see any.

Let the roasted beans rest for at least 8 hours before grinding and brewing. Some beans need more time which Tom will point out in his reviews.

For your first practice roast or two you'll want to let the roast get into second crack so you'll become familiar with it eventhough more often than not you'll want to stop the roast before second crack. For your practice roasts use the Ethiopian beans I noted above. This lot is one of the few that tastes good with a dark roast that gets into second crack. This way you'll be able to experiment and practice without worrying about letting the roast progress too far and ruining the beans.

There's a whole subculture of home roasters that you can explore on the web and learn more. Sweet Maria's is probably Mecca for most of us, but certainly not the only source of information.

Good luck and feel free to ask any questions. Have fun and enjoy!
 
brntorng pretty much covered it all. I would start out slowly on acquiring stuff if I were starting over - part of the fun is figuring out what works for you. To my palette, an old Mr. Coffee and good home roasted beans is good enough.

As far as the popcorn popper, the top things to look out for are:
1) Do it outside - the chaff is a mess, esp for dry processed beans.
2) Beans "jumping" out the top of the popper. A lot of people use a tin can w/o the top and bottom as a smoke stack to keep the beans in.
3) Cold weather, which by my experience is anything under 60 degrees and any wind at all requires you to put the popper in a box or the roast stalls out.
4) Take your first roast all the way through 2nd crack, just so you can see it through the whole way. I started out under roasting my beans because I was afraid of burning them and they tasted like grass - not good.

As far as beans, Sweet Maria's rocks and brntorng nailed my favorites. Tom scores the acidic stuff higher than the big body stuff. I prefer the Ethiopian and Kenyan bright coffees (low body, high acidity) - but I have an office mate that loves huge body, low acid, "chewy" coffee (which Tom scores low) of which his favorite is an Indian tree-dried coffee. It just depends on your tastes.
 
The Silvia is a nice machine. Now I'm even more surprised you're using the Mr. Coffee for drip. Joe would be proud. I've got a Gaggia that I'm satisfied with, but I only bother with espresso on the weekends. Since 5/7 of my coffee making is drip having a good machine for that is worthwhile.
 
thanks guys, i really appreciate the info. i'll get the krups as coffee is just about my only vice....lol....

i'd love to sample a wide variety and see what appeals to me....i'm very excited about getting into this hobby, just happened to stumble on this discussion. sounds like you guys are way ahead of the curve when compared to average coffee drinker, i think i'll take your advice and see what happens....i really think this will be fun....

just curious, are there any coffee drinking clubs where people get together to try different coffees?

thanks again...

jg
 
Have fun and come back and tell us how it goes.

I'm not aware of any coffee shops or clubs in Austin that do regular cupping sessions, but I've thought it would be interesting. Maybe the problem is many people avoid caffeine in the evening when it would be most likely to hold an event.
 
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