Fiorina, Carson, and the GOP debate tonight

[texas_ex2000]

Fiorina has been my candidate soon after I saw her first interview after her announcement. I think I made a thread on her candidacy. As a business person myself, the way she presented herself and the substance of responses are what I expect from a competent leader. If she's in contention come primary time, I'm voting for her. I hope she gets a bump in the polls.

I knew a little of Carson primarily of his medical accomplishments. I was concerned that he may be radically socially conservative. I still don't know either way on that concern after this debate, however this man is great. Thoughtful (as you expect from a neurosurgeon), eloquent, and ironically with all the fireworks going on...he made a great impression. He has a surgeon's sensibility, judgement, and gravitas, which I think would play well in the White House. His executive experience is a question mark for me. He's my No. 2 right now and I think he could be a great POTUS.

I'm not a Cruz fan, but I gotta admit, he had a good night and I like his fight and principles. When he says he's going to do something...you can bet he'll do it. He's just too confrontational to effectively govern. He could be a good VP for the right person. A Carson/Cruz ticket would be very appealing.

Refreshingly, the debate was not the clown show I was expecting.

I don't like Paul at all.

 

[Larry T Spider]

I haven't watched the early debate yet but all of my friends said fiorina killed it.

For the main debate, I LOVED kasich. I never put too much stock into these clown shows, but I really liked him. It may help that I liked him before the debate.

 

[texas_ex2000]

Kasich really? That just goes to show how folks even of similar political sensibilities can see things completely differently.

 

[Larry T Spider]

My Facebook page is all over the place! This is going to take a while to sort out I'm afraid.

 

[Horns11]

As soon as Carson's public statements become... well... "more" public, he'll be out of the race faster than pretty much any candidate not named Rand Paul. It's funny how congratulatory everyone on the Internet is tonight, because they'll withdraw their support for Carson quickly.

I had social media friends who were all abuzz a month ago in support of the gay marriage rulings. Tonight, some of them were very impressed with Carson. They'll find out soon enough I guess.

 

[Larry T Spider]

"In his keynote speech at the National Organization for Marriage’s March for Marriage gala last week, Dr. Ben Carson explained how Marxists are using LGBT rights to destroy American unity and impose the "New World Order."

Might not go over so well.....but this is the republican primary so who knows.

 

[UTChE96]

I also thought Kasich did great but I am biased. Of everyone on the stage, he had the most real accomplishments in governing by far. He is a complete superstar in my book. Trump made things interesting but he is really just a middle finger to the Republican establishment. I thought Cristie did very poorly. His answers just did not resonate. Rand had some good answers but just comes across as a total douche.

 

[Crockett]

I watched as a one moderately left of center (I know on this board I'm the far left) and I was surprised I watched the debate and didn't think "Oh my God, I hope He is not the nominee." Well, except Huckabee.
Looks like the moderators and the candidates were all on board to not scare the hell out of the centrists. I was very favorably impressed with Kasich's words and message, but he's not Captain Charisma. I don't like the divisiveness Cruz brings, but he came across as focused and smart.

 

[Mr. Deez]

As soon as Carson's public statements become... well... "more" public, he'll be out of the race faster than pretty much any candidate not named Rand Paul. It's funny how congratulatory everyone on the Internet is tonight, because they'll withdraw their support for Carson quickly.

I had social media friends who were all abuzz a month ago in support of the gay marriage rulings. Tonight, some of them were very impressed with Carson. They'll find out soon enough I guess.

Full Disclosure - I haven't watched the debate yet because of the 7-hour time difference. However, I plan to tonight (which shows what a loser I am not to have anything better to do on a Friday night).

That aside, I think you're right about Carson. I really want to like him. His personal and professional stories are incredible in every respect, and by all accounts, he's a decent guy. However, I've heard him speak several times, and I've always walked away disappointed. I've never sensed a particularly strong grasp of policy (surprising for how absurdly smart he is), and yes, he has made several pretty controversial statements on social issues - lumping gays in with pedophiles and people who practice bestiality, talking about people going into prison straight and coming out gay, etc. Why even go there? It has nothing at all to do with being President, and it would kill him in a general election. For a political movement that is struggling to regain its intellectualism, it's a bit a disappointment.

 

[Horns11]

I also thought the questions and candidates were pushed to talk about abortion WAY too much. I know this has been discussed on several other threads, but there's just nothing to "win" when the GOP brings it up. If you consider eliminating partial birth abortion and passing "personhood" laws on the state level big wins, then back yourself on the back. And I guess those are more aimed at the base of the party for the primaries anyhow. But in a national election, you're never going to get the electorate who thinks you're an invasive, controlling party with regards to reproduction.

 

[WorsterMan]

Some random thoughts after watching both debates:

Agree, Fiorina killed it - at this point, I think she would be a good VP pick
Trump is generally not informed on the issues and always reverts to the same talking points - mostly around trade
I like the fact Trump speaks his mind and is not always PC but he was not presidential, he was obnoxious at times and bombastic - he damaged his campaign last night
Dr. Carson was the smartest man on the stage. I like him but he is not well informed on the issues and is not dynamic enough to win the GOP sweepstakes
Jeb Bush bores me - I don't think the country will elect another member of the Bush family as POTUS
Huckabee scored some points but in the end he will not get the nod
Christie and Paul lost ground
Rubio, Kasich, Cruz scored points with me and all acted presidential

IMHO the candidates coming out of the debates with some level of momentum, in no particular order: Fiorina, Cruz, Rubio, Kasich, Carson, Huckabee.

 

[NJlonghorn]

Rubio, Kasich, Cruz scored points with me and all acted presidential

Rubio and Kasich acted presidential. Cruz acted monarchical.

 

[NJlonghorn]

I also thought the questions and candidates were pushed to talk about abortion WAY too much. I know this has been discussed on several other threads, but there's just nothing to "win" when the GOP brings it up. If you consider eliminating partial birth abortion and passing "personhood" laws on the state level big wins, then back yourself on the back. And I guess those are more aimed at the base of the party for the primaries anyhow. But in a national election, you're never going to get the electorate who thinks you're an invasive, controlling party with regards to reproduction.

I watched the debate last night with my wife, who is a pretty solid Democrat but is underwhelmed by everyone the Dems are offering up so far. She would consider supporting one of the more centrist Republicans, but not if they are pro-life. When Kasich said he is pro life, she said "well, cross him off the list". It really is that simple to her. She is one of the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of otherwise centrist voters who would support a socialist before a pro-lifer.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Cruz acted monarchical.

LOL. The guy does have delusions of grandeur. Always has.

 

[WorsterMan]

I watched the debate last night with my wife, who is a pretty solid Democrat but is underwhelmed by everyone the Dems are offering up so far. She would consider supporting one of the more centrist Republicans, but not if they are pro-life. When Kasich said he is pro life, she said "well, cross him off the list". It really is that simple to her. She is one of the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of otherwise centrist voters who would support a socialist before a pro-lifer.

Interesting. I have family and friends that are in both the pro-life and pro-choice camps. Some are very stridently so. I fully understand how toxic and polarizing this issue is to many people. I also think it is unfortunate that many voters will rule out voting for someone that could be a good candidate simply by this one issue. But that is just the way it is.

 

[texas_ex2000]

Some random thoughts after watching both debates:

Agree, Fiorina killed it - at this point, I think she would be a good VP pick.

Why just a VP? Because she's a woman and you want their votes? SMH. She has what it takes to win and be POTUS.

I think in the past, picking a VP with crossover appeal socially or geographially (a la Bush/Gore/Kemp/Lieberman/Edwards/Palin/Bensen) was the generally preferred strategy. That doesn't work today because we're so polarized (no thanks to Voldemort). In this day and age for a VP you want someone to be a bulldog and solidfy your base. I think Cruz would be the ideal VP. I think Christie could be a pseudo break your kneecaps guy that Conservatives would like, but not as idealouge as Cruz that centrists would vote for. His Social Security plan explanation helped with damage control a little. The pushing out of retirement age over a 25 period actually made a lot of sense, but I don't think needs testing will fly with people.

I think Rubio's potential would be wasted as VP. He could be a headliner. Jeb just had a bad night. I don't like common core, but his record in Florida will speak for itself. Being a debater has very little to do with being POTUS. What you look for in televised debates is thoughtfullness, the candidates' grasp of the issue and of their position, and intelligence.

I'm going to do some research on a consumption only tax. Just superficially thinking about it. I can see how that would help industrial competiveness, but I need to think about it more. Even if it was a solid idea, there is no way our current system gets overhauled in the next 10 years (but I guess they said the same thing about Obamacare).

 

[Clean]

I didn't watch, but I was bombarded with Trump, Christie, Paul, sound bytes on the way to work.

I don't think a single person mentioned Scott Walker yet. Did he show up?

 

[texas_ex2000]

LOL. The guy does have delusions of grandeur. Always has.

You're right. But I think his integrity is uninpeachable. He may have delusions of grandeur, but I don't think it's his ego driving it (or at least any more than any other politician). I just think the guy is unabashedly and sincerely in love with Jesus and the Constitution.

That's not POTUS candidate material, but that would be great VPOTUS stuff.

 

[Crockett]

Walker seemed to do fine to me. He didn't hurt himself at all. He must be good at the nuts and bolts of politics. Seems amazing to me that he's so unapologetically conservative and keeps winning elections in a state that has gone for Obama in that last two presidential races.

 

[WorsterMan]

Why just a VP? Because she's a woman and you want their votes? SMH. She has what it takes to win and be POTUS.

Fiorina was impressive and I think she is presidential timber. I said at this point, she would be a good VP pick but not because she is a woman. I would put her at the top of the ticket but, she is a newcomer to politics and the GOP. I don't think the GOP in the end will give her the baton - I could be wrong.

 

[Crockett]

The problems with Fiorina is her record. Basically no history in elective office. Served a HP President and got fired. In my mind I associated her with illegal wiretaps, but my memory was incorrect. That was a subsequent Chairwoman at HP.

 

[NJlonghorn]

I think Cruz would be the ideal VP.

If Cruz is on the Republican ticket, I vote with the donkeys. I don't care who the presidential pick is. I'd vote for Sanders/Warren (yech!) before anybody/Cruz. And there are millions upon millions of moderates who agree with me.

If the Dems put up Sanders/Sharpton, I guess I'd give Cruz a look. Anything short of that, no way.

 

[mb227]

I also think it is unfortunate that many voters will rule out voting for someone that could be a good candidate simply by this one issue. But that is just the way it is.

For women, it goes far beyond just being 'simply' an issue. When men start legislating the female body, women tend to get a little miffed. This is especially magnified when that legislation leaves no room for rape/incest or where life is at risk. Oh...and about those mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds...that is about as invasive as one can get with legislation. So yeah, some women are going to be quick to cross someone off the list for JUST that one issue...

 

[texas_ex2000]

The problems with Fiorina is her record. Basically no history in elective office. Served a HP President and got fired. In my mind I associated her with illegal wiretaps, but my memory was incorrect. That was a subsequent Chairwoman at HP.

Every exec was getting fired in tech during that period. Let me put it this way, you have to be incredibly accomplished to get fired as the CEO from the world's largest computer company during the tech bubble. Stock prices before and after firings often have very little to do with a departing CEO's competence. Investors are trading on volatility and change.

Except for a very few cases, in most cases good ole boy network situations, CEOs turnover often.

People also bring up that she laid people off. Well that's what you have to do when you're CEO to keep the company afloat and save everyone else's job. That's what a POTUS may have to do with all these bloated government agencies.

One reason I wouldn't like her as VP is that she doesn't have legislative and federal bureaucracy experience. That's a plus for a POTUS candidate, but in my view a negative for a VPOTUS.

 

[Larry T Spider]

Walker seemed to do fine to me. He didn't hurt himself at all. He must be good at the nuts and bolts of politics. Seems amazing to me that he's so unapologetically conservative and keeps winning elections in a state that has gone for Obama in that last two presidential races.

Strange. I seemed to think it was a bad night for walker. Came off flat to me and didn't really stand out in any way. I think the no exceptions for life of the mother position will hurt him, even in the republican primary. Remember, I'm the guy that thought he would get the nomination a month ago so I'm not out to get him. I do think he can pick up support as voters look to pick a "new guy" as their guy drops out.

 

[Mr. Deez]

For women, it goes far beyond just being 'simply' an issue. When men start legislating the female body, women tend to get a little miffed. This is especially magnified when that legislation leaves no room for rape/incest or where life is at risk. Oh...and about those mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds...that is about as invasive as one can get with legislation. So yeah, some women are going to be quick to cross someone off the list for JUST that one issue...

I think there are more single-issue pro-lifers than pro-choicers. Nevertheless, this is an issue where consensus should be sought rather than extremism. That's going to mean making exceptions for rape/incest and obviously the life of the mother (should be a no-brainer). Never been a fan of the trans-vaginal ultrasounds. That's about as invasive as it gets, and it doesn't ultimately serve the interest of stopping or discouraging abortions.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Just for the record, I'm finally watching the debate. I'll also add that I'm on my third half-liter beer of the evening. Sorry, but I can't take these guys seriously enough to watch them stone sober.

BTW, the commentator formerly known as Megyn Kendall is still hot. I don't like her, but she's hot.

 

[MudHorn]

BTW, the commentator formerly known as Megyn Kendall is still hot. I don't like her, but she's hot.

Keep drinking. She gets cuter, almost likable.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Keep drinking. She gets cuter, almost likable.

I figured. When Scott Walker started defending his pro-life with no exception for the life of the mother position, I cracked open Beer #4 of the night. For those watching at home, it's a Staropramen from Prague.

 

[chango]

BTW, the commentator formerly known as Megyn Kendall is still hot. I don't like her, but she's hot.

Agree on both counts - but good old Trump has a way of bringing people together. His asinine comments make me want to defend her.