Findlay Prep = Barnes' big mistake

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Nic

25+ Posts
With word that Kabongo is likely gone, can we please close the chapter on recruiting from Findlay Prep? I would contend that for all of the criticizing that our fan base has done of Barnes coaching over the last 3 years, his real flaw was locking arms with the 3 Findlay Prep guards. Bradley, Joseph and Kabongo were all recruited to be big time guards who would be instant starters and difference makers... with the caveat that they would probably each only stay a year.

Barnes got the 2nd part of that deal (only 1 year), but was completely fleeced on the first part. Not one of the 3 showed up on campus (or left) with any true play making ability. All 3 were given huge minutes all season, but never showed any material progression. The past 3 seasons we desperately needed each of them to step up and become a consistent play maker and offensive threat....none of the 3 came close to filling that role.

Was it unreasonable to project that from freshman? Usually, the answer would be yes, but none of these 3 were billed as typical freshman. They were each big time recruits with similar rankings to Kidd-Gilchrest, Austin Rivers, Pierre Jackson and even John Wall. Barnes clearly expected all 3 to be able to play at the level of other elite freshman guards. He expected each of them to step in and carry a big chunk of the scoring and they weren't capable. That is the reason for Texas' rough three seasons.

I would argue that had those three guys been 75% of what Barnes thought he was getting, we would have three more sweet 16s and maybe a deep tourney run or two. The disappointment of the last three years hasn't been about Barnes' inability to coach; it has been about him whiffing on the three Findlay guards.

Can we please stay away from Nevada on future recruiting trips???
 
I really think the whole Findlay thing is odd. How often do 4 kids from the same school all choose to go to the same college in a completely different state that none of them has ties to? Its not like they were all coming here to play together. They were here at different times.

The whole deal feels to me like something fishy was going on. Not sure I want to know, but it sure seems like Barnes got some bad karma out of the whole deal.

Hopefully Barnes gets back to recruiting mainly Texas kids.
 
Here is the link to the article about Findlay:
The Link

Interesting that the take is Barnes is getting players not worthy of 5-stars.... is Barnes not developing them properly? The rap on Barnes is he is an inferior offensive coach. It could stand to reason that he doesn't know give proper guidance. Now maybe the expectation is that these guys should just walk in and take over but is that realistic?
 
Agreed on the Findlay stuff. It seems like the dude started the school just to be a pipeline for colleges... why would a coach take a risk on a kid who prioritizes this way?

I'd like to think that with Lanier helping out, we'll probably get out of the one-and-done doldrums. His UF teams didn't make all of their waves by getting guys who wanted to move on to the NBA immediately. They wanted to win.
 
Findlay Prep. was once the subject of an USA Today article, if different than the link provided I can try and find it. The details in that article which I can recall are the following:
Findlay himself is literally an used car-salesmen in Vegas. Findlay prep. is or formally was a smaller, separate part of, or shared the campus with a different, academically powerful college preparatory school. The entire school body of Findlay Prep. consists of the players who all shared a house in Vegas. Now if that doesn't scream stay away, then you could work for John Calipari. But somehow all of those, uhm, err, gee student athletes qualify at the University of Texas? And Scott Drew is shady? Let's all hope Lanier move us in a more clear cut direction. As it is, the Findlay Prep. (also, by relation, Toronto) pipeline has certainly not translated into wins in March or Big 12 championships (we screwed up the 2011 league title despite a January win at Kansas, didn't we?).
 
The Link

Yes, Lanier was here from 1999-2001 and was responsible for the "uberclass" of 2000 and getting TJ Ford to sign in 2001. His teams (whether he's the head coach or not) always seem to rise above expectations. Some of the past few years at UF were paltry, but he still seemed to get the 20+ wins.
 
The rap that Barnes can't coach offense is just a bunch of bull. Probably the same group who thought that Penders was an offensive genius. Look at where Texas was ranked in overall offense 2003 thru 2007. I guess the players overcame all that awful coaching.

What is key about those years? He had a point guard. He has not had one since. I agree about no more one and doners, with the exception of a rare and exceptional talent like Kevin Durant or currently, Anthony Davis.

Barnes can coach offense and defense. The players are not executing what he is calling during the games. He can only draw it up, he cannot execute it.

We got screwed by the ref in the Arizona game. In 2011, he called a timeout and set up a play to get the ball to Brown and he was to hold it because he wanted Browe to shoot the FT's against Wake. They threw it to Brown who promply threw to I don't remember who and promply missed the free throws and Wake ran it down to win the game. Not Barnes fault. He set up the play to win the games, the players did not execute. Another good example was TTU in Lubbock this year. He had Brown, his best FT shooter, inbounding the ball. Great call, Brown inbounds the ball so TTU cannot prevent him FROM taking the inbound pass. He was going to step in and Lewis was supposed to immediately pass it bach to Brown who would be fouled. Barnes did not anticipate Lewis would fall down AFTER Brown was in the process of passing to him. Great call by Barnes, really a very good call. Should he has known Lewis was going to fall down? I guess some people think so.

We need more 3 and 4 year players and a true point guard. Ford and Augistine were not that great as freshmen, but were outstanding as sophs. Kabongo is not nearly as good as those two. He was so bad against Cinn. that he had Brown running the team with Kabongo on the bench. Brown is not a point but he played as hard as he could and brought us back, but crumbled in the last three minutes. Again, Brown is not a point. Look at the games won or lost by 4 or fewer points when Ford and Auginstine were in their 2nd year. Look at out record in these game since Augistine. There is a big difference.

You had better be careful what you wish for. You never know what you are going to get. If we get rid of Barnes, what good coach is going to want to come here....I doubt you will find one.

We might be back in the bark days of Weltlik(?). Any of you remember those days?
 
so here's another guy telling us we either have to have Barnes or Weltlich. Did you watch the first half of the game against Cincinatti? You think Barnes can coach offense? That was as embarrassing display of non-offensive basketball as I've ever seen.

And I am old enough to have seen 38-39. Yes, that first half against Cincinatti was WORSE than that slowdown loss to ....Aggy? (SWC tourney game in late 70s, I think)

No good coach would want to come here? Excuse me, we pay what? Top 5 salary? uhh, I think you're wrong on that too.

So, you're also saying Kabongo is not a point guard? He's a five star recruit and he can't run the point?

What will you say when Kabongo leaves for the pros in a couple of weeks? he could play in high school, and good enough for pros, but somehow wasn't good enough to play for Rick. What happened?

Here's what I really think. There comes a time when players stop listening to a coach for whatever reason. Barnes has it great that his good players leave after one year, so he doesn't have to try again with the same players.

But we can see it. Barnes has actually started hinting that they're not listening. Well, they need to be on the bench, if they can't listen, and I mean well before the NCAA tourney.
 
Thompson was from Findley and he lived up to expectations for a first year player. Not many first year players are going to be be sensational. I don't think I would have expected all of them to be sensational as first year college players. We really need these guys to comes back for even just a 2nd year IMO. TJ Ford, Gibson, Augustine, Aldridge all played at least 2 years and it helped their games tremendously. Each had areas they needed to see improvement on and that happened during their second year and those were the years that Texas saw great on the court results.

Those guys also saw good draft status and are doing well or did well in the pros, compared to some of these other 1 and done players that I haven't heard anything about since they left.

Kabongo is the last player Texas has gottenf rom Findlay and there were no players from this current class from there. So perhaps that pipeline isn't being explored anymore, don't know. But bottom line is that Texas needs to get players to stay more than 1 year. They don't need to get 1 and done players, even if those players somewhat live up to expectations. It would be one thing if we had a team full of juniors/seniors and you added a talented freshmen scorer or defender to the mix.
 
This was the worst offensive exhibition of offensive basketball I've ever seen:

Mar. 3 #9 Arkansas______________ L_____ 38-39

1979, SWC tourny game.

Until the first half against Cincinatti. And then the same bad old things happened at the end of the game. Barnes would have been better off to just let the team play in the final 6 minutes of the game, BECAUSE THE PLAYERS WOULND't LISTEN TO HIM.

Is that a good coach?
 
stat is on the money with that comment. The thought just occurred to me, compare Penders in his prime at Texas to Barnes.

With Penders' team, you knew what was coming. Breakneck speed by whomever the point guard, incredible moonshots by Lance Blanks, drives to the basket by Travis Mays, and one undersized big man rebounding like his hair was on fire.

The team knew exactly what to do, and they never stopped doing what they knew, shoot.

if one of the big three, BMW was out, do you think Penders' offense would quit doing what they knew to do? of course not, and they would be able to continue, maybe not as high a level, but still the coaching was evident.

Now compare Barnes and his team. If you pull T.J. out of Barnes lineup, what is the team gonna do? I dont' know, but I sure feel more comfortable with Penders team losing a star than Barnes losing his star point guard.
 
Shouldn't there be a regulation on a state institution handing scholarships to players who don't take full advantage of the opportunity? For every player who does not stay, then the program has paid for their education and paid a coaching staff to work with them -- and that money and effort could have gone to someone else.

As I see it.
 
I don't want to give up on Barnes. While most of the criticism on this thrrad has validity, there is also a lot a valid praise that he deserves. I can't think of a basketball comparison (someone please help) but I think of a Tom Osborn or Bobby Bowden: sometimes it takes decades to finally won ot all.
 
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