Ehlinger and Herman

Htown77

Htown77

5,000+ Posts
I have seen enough of Ehlinger. He is 2-5 as a starter. His wins are against San Jose State and Kansas State. The Kansas State game seems to be the outlier. At the end of the game in Sam's 5 losses, he folded. I cannot say I have seen any Texas QB ever do this so many times or regularly. I hate to say it because I like him as a person, but Ehlinger is the worst starting QB I have ever seen at UT. Swoopes > Ehlinger. Richard Walton & Marty Cherry? Yes, probably > Ehlinger. Even his successful passes are usually terrible throws. I know he was great in high school, but so were a lot of unsuccessful college players. Today we actually had good offensive line play. Sam had time. We have a great receiving corps. They are making all kinds of crazy grabs of Sam's off target throws. It looks like between Ingram, Young and Watson, we can actually have a good running game (with better play calling). We need a QB that can throw the ball. I do not know if Buechele is the long term answer or not, but I do know he has always thrown the ball better than Ehlinger and does not suffer from end of the game mental collapses. Buechele was 5-2 as a starter last year. Buechele deserves the nod through the OU game. After that, we can re-evaluate and maybe give one of the freshmen a try if Buechele is not working out.

Herman right now only appears to be slightly better than Charlie Strong. His teams are competitive, but like Charlie, Herman is stubbornly sticking with things that do not work. I have had enough of his refusals to pull Ehlinger in clear late game passing situations. It is obvious Ehlinger is a terrible passer and going to mess up. Herman sticks with it and takes the loss. Whether Buechele is the answer or not, he is not a guaranteed L like Ehlinger. Also, there is no way Ehlinger is any more an accurate passer in practice. DKR could adjust to his personnel. Mack Brown could adjust to his personnel. If Herman, like Charlie, cannot adjust to his team, he is going to meet the same end. Like Strong, for me, Herman gets three years to prove himself. The bare minimum standard for a 4th year is at least tying 8-5 aka the record that got Mack Brown fired (and that fourth year better be 10 wins). Right now, especially if we continue with Ehlinger, I see us going 7-6 yet again.

As for the defense, I have no idea what is going on there. I do not know if it is like game one last year where they did not have their act together yet OR if it is like Manny Diaz where everyone figured him out year 2. We'll have to wait and see.
 
I waited awhile to post because I am on record as being team Shane and was livid when coach announced Sam would be starting. I tend to shoot from the hip so I was afraid I would say something that would get me in trouble. I was also hoping that since coach was starting Ellinger that my instincts against him would be wrong. Unfortunately my instincts were right on the money.

One of the issues with Herman and Shane is that he inherited him from the previous coaching staff. Herman was on record as saying that he refused to watch game film from the previous season so he didn't see the flashes of brilliance that we saw (like the bomb against Notre Dame.) Also Shane has a different mind set and personality than Herman relates and responds to. Herman views Shane as a passive doormat rather than a quiet introvert who leads by example. Shane is a perfectly fine leader and the team responds beautifully. It is on Herman that he can't recognize Shane's leadership. He wants Shane to change his personality which is a red flag on Herman not Shane. You don't have to be loud and obnoxious to be a good leader.

Sam lost his father and Herman fills the roll of second father. Sam also has the loud, bold personality that Herman recognizes. You can tell in moments like when they made fun of Mizzou's QB in the bowl last year, that these two are peas in a pod. Herman's soft spot for Sam has him soft pedaling Sam's mistakes and really highlighting Shane's mistakes. The decisions which seem so backwards to their records smack to me as almost nepotism in a way. Sam is definitely the teacher's pet and Herman doesn't seem to like Shane much even though he's the nicest kid on the team. Any respect he gives Shane is grudging.

Shane is 5-2 as a starter and he gets that record by playing smart. Keep in mind the Iowa State game and the brilliant 9 and 1/2 minute drive he ran to kill the clock at the end of the game. He had sixty some odd yards rushing on that drive on a high ankle sprain. He would slide to avoid contact and stay in bounds to keep the clock moving. I don't think he passed once on that drive. He doesn't have many turnovers in general but none of them came with the game on the line. He knows how to use the clock and the sideline. He doesn't go head first into the the defense putting him in concussion protocol. He would rather take a sack, punt, and play defense or kick a field goal than make a stupid turnover trying to do too much. Shane isn't risk adverse, he just doesn't take unnessessary risks. Sam is like a riverboat gambler and he is gambling with the last of the family's milk money. The rewards he gives you are outweighed by the risks because of his 4th quarter and overtime turnovers. He also doesn't play smart like going head first into the defense at end of runs rather than sliding or going out of bounds.

I love Shane' s arm and half the time Sam can't hit the wide side of a barn at 50 paces. I think that Shane is the immediate answer. We also have a couple of Freshmen that could be our future. What I don't see is riding Ellinger to success. I don't see us with a winning record if he keeps him in.
 
Sometimes you need to switch halfway through like Case McCoy bailing out Ash against Kansas. True you don't want to do it all the time but if a guy is ineffective, the other guy could light a spark and get things going. In this case I think they started the wrong guy in the first place. Keep in mind the Tech game and Herman answering the media that he thought about putting Shane in. Again he took a loss riding with Sam rather than putting his proven passer/winner in a game where we were coming from behind.
 
Sorry misread your post. The only Bueschele game that he started that he didn't play much after as West Virginia. He played most of first half of bowl and was ahead when he got injured. Most of Shane's starts came with Sam in concussion protocol where he didn't even dress for the game or make the trip. Sam's starts were Sam's starts.
 
Horngal12 said:
I love Shane' s arm and half the time Sam can't hit the wide side of a barn at 50 paces.
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Sam's accuracy wasn't the issue. He missed some, but he didn't throw the ball particularly badly today. The issue was his decision-making.

Posted this on another thread, but he basically said after the game that "you have to take risks" in explanation of his second interception, and that people who haven't played the game don't understand that. There's an underlying arrogance and stubbornness in that statement that tells me that he's never going to understand why throwing a pass deep downfield into triple coverage on third down with plenty of time left on the clock is not the right decision. What REALLY concerns me is that he might be getting this reinforced from Herman and Beck. They love the swagger, but you have to take the stupid with the swagger with Sam.
 
ProdigalHorn said:
Sam's accuracy wasn't the issue. He missed some, but he didn't throw the ball particularly badly today. The issue was his decision-making.

Posted this on another thread, but he basically said after the game that "you have to take risks" in explanation of his second interception, and that people who haven't played the game don't understand that. There's an underlying arrogance and stubbornness in that statement that tells me that he's never going to understand why throwing a pass deep downfield into triple coverage on third down with plenty of time left on the clock is not the right decision. What REALLY concerns me is that he might be getting this reinforced from Herman and Beck. They love the swagger, but you have to take the stupid with the swagger with Sam.
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I wish I knew how to edit video because that boy badly missed at least 5 open receivers down the field. Even the first TD was overthrown and Duvernay made a great catch.
 
unless my math is incorrect, Sam has lost four (4) games in the waning seconds the last 2 years---USC, Okie lite, Tceh and yesterday. Am I missing another?
 
OU he kept throwing it out of bounds on 4th down. His last drives were anti-clutch like all his last drives.
 
Sam's accuracy wasn't the issue.
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Yes it was. His WR did not have a chance at the ball on the last interception. All day his passes were not accurate. I agree his decision making is also a problem. Inaccuracy + bad decision making = why we’ve never seen a QB this bad... well also every other coach in Texas history would actually pull such a QB long before Herman has.
 
It's a results driven game. Period. 2-5 says he's not the guy. Give the ball to Shane and see how we do against Tulsa and USC.
 
ProdigalHorn said:
Sam's accuracy wasn't the issue
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You are correct if you are saying it isn't his biggest problem. Please put them in your own order of importance:

1) Cannot read a defense

2) Stares down one receiver, never looking for other receivers

3) Cannot read a defense

4) Rarely overthrows because he doesn't have arm strength beyond 30 yards. (last pass was a first and a total shock)

5) Doesn't see the field well

6) Cannot read a defense

7) Constantly forces a ball into double/triple coverage, which means someone else is in man coverage

8) Cannot read a defense

Herman said something yesterday that I interpreted as saying "OJT" was in place. He had all spring, summer, and how many weeks in August to TEACH with his MENSA mind. The appear to have learned NOTHING! (They used loosely because we only saw "the chosen one". Sometime during the twelve games is not the time to "learn".

After yesterday, it should be "WIN ONLY EIGHT, YOU GET THE GATE"

As I told Mackovic face to face, " I was here when you got here, and I'll be here when you're gone". I don't want to be Herman's buddy or beer drinking pal, I want to be his ardent supporter, but he is making it impossible.
 
Sam Ehlinger on third down yesterday:
Incomplete pass - no conversion
Incomplete pass - no conversion
Rush for 2 yard gain - no conversion
Sacked - no conversion
Incomplete pass - no conversion
Rush for 3 yard loss - no conversion
Rush for 15 yards - conversion
Incomplete pass - no conversion
Rush for 2 yard loss and fumble - no conversion
Complete pass for 33 yards - conversion
Complete pass for 11 yards - conversion
Complete pass for a 1 yard loss - no conversion
Complete pass for a 6 yard gain - conversion (but watson “fumbled”)
Complete pass for 7 yards - no conversion
Interception - no conversion

Ultimately Sam converted 4 out of 15 third down attempts.... this is not our starting QB my dudes.
 
Sam actually reminds me a lot of Swoopes. Big powerful kid, with some athleticism. Not fast or fluid, but runs with determination. Just doesn't have it between the ears or in the arm to be a good QB.

On that thought, Sam should look to Swoopes' example and if he wants to play in the NLF, give TE a try. I think he'd make a good one.

Shane should have started the second half last week (I think he should have started the whole game but...) And brought in Sam in special situations.

In fact, Herman should eat some humble pie and go watch the tape of the Notre Dame game from 2 years ago to see how he could use Shane and compliment him with snaps for Sam.
As SMRT Smart as Herman is, he can still learn from Charlie's few successes (as well as his many failures which TH seems to be repeating... But that is another conversation). After all Strong beat a much better team that night than the one that just took TH to the woodshed. And he got fired that year...
 
DS, I am not sure any tape or electronic captured video exist of Strong's games as Herman has admitted he never watch any 2016 tape. Besides Coach Mensa doesn't need pointers from a Group of 5 coach.
 
Tommy Boy isn't going to admit he was wrong. He's too arrogant for that. It's a situation no different that what many of us go through on a day to day basis in the business world. Manager promotes X employee because he's "bled for the company" rather than making the effort to go out and getting the right person. X person fails of course, but it's everything but X persons fault.

I've been in many situations where if X person reported to me they would be gone. Often X person is a great person, fun outside of work, etc., but can't do a job. I also have friends, really good people, but I would never hire them to work for me because I know they would be worthless. By all accounts Tim Beck is a great person, but he has no analytical skills or common sense. Sam E is a great kid, but's he's not a Power 5 QB.

Ultimately manager gets canned because they couldn't make a tough choice. It may come to that with Tommy Boy. And the fans have to suffer through more years of misery.
 
Hey Tommy, no one but you and your immediate family cares you're in Mensa. I'm too near the end to give a crap. Get it done or get the hell out of town.
 
I'm sorry, but I have a problem with both his accuracy and his decision making. There were times he made the right decision but his throw was terrible He throws a flair pass to the RB and the dude had to jump up to catch it which forced him to lose all forward momentum and it allowed the defense to get to him faster.

There is another play it was about 3rd and 6 and Sam was flushed to his right as the defense closed one defender left the guys he was covering, Sam saw this and made the right decision by trying to get the ball to his now wide open receiver only to throw a bad pass that was batted down by the defender.

Sam had some good decisions and good passes, but they were few and far between. Sam's issues can be fixed, but not in one season, and not in this season, he gets a tight butt hole and makes horrible decision. He needs to be put in situations where he won't have to worry about the game being on the line. He needs to work on his accuracy and get a little success in situations when his decisions only mean Texas punts, not Texas loses the game.
 
Here's my question. It seemed clear to me that Sam was coached to not run because there were several times with only three or four rushing he could have easily gained 6-8 or more yards with everyone else defending down field.

So why coach your running QB to stay in the pocket while sitting your pocket passer? This seems to be the epitome of square peg round hole. Herman keeps thinking his mensa brain can figure out the complicated puzzle when the solution is right in front of him. Just let the qb's do what they naturally do and play the one who fits what you want.
 
2-5 says he's not the guy.
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And we're still touting this....

Plenty of reasons to be worried about Sam, but this stat continues to not be one of them. It ignores that Sam played the majority of the West Virginia and Missouri games, as well as ignoring the quality of opposition - Shane started against 3 of the weakest 4 teams on our schedule (and we lost 1 of those 3), while Sam started against 3 of the strongest 4 teams on our schedule (all 4 were Texas losses).

OU he kept throwing it out of bounds on 4th down. His last drives were anti-clutch like all his last drives.
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* His 3rd to last drive was a TD drive that gave us the lead. The defense promptly gave up the lead with blown coverage.

* His 2nd to last drive he opened with 2 plays for 20 yards and then went out of the game. When he went back in, he inherited a 2nd and 24, and then got half of it back on a scramble. On 4th and 12 he made the infamous decision to throw the ball out of bounds. It was the wrong decision but needs context. We had a penalty on the play. The only way we gain from him throwing the ball up for grabsis if we catch it for a first down (otherwise OU declines the penalty), and then we successfully convert s 4th and 22 on the next play. So, yes, he made the wrong choice, but there's probably around 1-in-500 odds that this had anything to do with why we lost.

* His final drive started with 49 seconds left in the game, no timeouts, from his own 4 yard line. We got to near midfield and ran out of time.

So, both of the quoted assertions are misleading at best if not outright false.

With so many legit complaints about Sam, it's amazing how so many of us are working so hard rounding up illegitimate ones.
 
There definitely seems to be a bro-mance between the two that is kind of embarrassing...
I just hope that what he says in the media and what he says and plans to do behind closed doors are very different things, and I imagine they are.
In the film room I bet they are asking "what were you thinking there? No you cannot, just cannot keep making that same mistake over and over. And Shane is ready to go if you can't figure this out."

Horngal summed it up pretty well I think, above. I think Herman favors a certain type of kid and that is natural.
But one does not have to be jocular to be a leader and Shane IS a good quiet leader. I have no doubt Shane could have stood in that pocket we had Saturday and delivered a win.

For example: on Sam's first interception, he says his arm was tipped and it was pressure. Sure but what I saw was a guy who actually had a little bit of time, got pressure, but still had pocket, and instead of stepping up into it to find the open receiver, he heaved it into triple coverage right away.
And then chewed out his lineman. If I was his lineman I would be like "yeah I got a piece of that guy but you still threw a duck into triple coverage so FU man. Give me Shane."

A good coach should be able to adapt to their talent on hand and make the offense over if the strengths dictate that. Has Herman ever proved he can do that? He had a decent couple of years with UH but that was not long and maybe he sees a little Greg Ward in Sam and is going to the only thing he knows...
 
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It is very simple
Sam is TH's QB type
Shane is not an extrovert QB TH type
per TH the QB is the Orchestra Conducter not 3rd string violin.
TH is doing Sam a diservice
 
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