Doctors and their Licenses?

M

Mrs.Macanudo

25+ Posts
With all this Bar exam talk among the lawyers, why is it so hard to pass?

Would you go to a physician who failed one of their MULTIPLE (at least 4) licensing exams they must take to practice 4 times?

I wouldn't. Yikes.
 
Law schools need somethin to weed out the piss poor quality that all the thousands of fouth tier trash law schools put out every year.

There's no such thing as a "fourth tier trash" medical school, so you dont have to worry as much about getting standardized, quality graduates out of it.
 
I'm forgiving of someone who might have failed the bar exam once. There are all sorts of reasons that it could have happened. The same would hold true of the medical exam.

More than that, however, and I start to question their ability and dedication not only to themselves in order to pass the exam, but by extension their dedication to the client/patient to represent/treat them adequately.

I also think there is something to be said with the manner in which medical student education defers from law. (I'm no medical Dr., so forgive me if this isn't entirely accurate, but you get the point) - Med students must spend a year or whatever in residency, getting actual hands on training that further benefits their training and understanding of their field.

Lawyers are not held to this requirement. With only some very few exceptions, and attorney is considered to be able and competent to engage in any field of law immediately after passing the bar. Now we know in all practicality, that this isn't at all true, but that's the theory, at least. The fact is, law school rarely provides any practical training, and I think attorneys, new and old, are the lesser for it.

I really wish there were a similar requirement for some sort of "residency" for attorneys as well.
 
Mrs. Mac, you probably could shed some light on the exam procedures in med school. When I started law school, I was looking for any help I could get on how to get ready for exams. So, on a routine visit, I asked a doctor what kind of med school exams she had. Turned out she couldn't help me at all -- they are completely different from the largely essay style of law school.
 
The bar exam has little to no correlation to your ability to be a good lawyer, and ultimately, has little to do with your actual legal knowledge. It's simply an epic test of your endurance and memorization skills. No matter how good of a law student you were or how much you know, if you don't take a bar prep course that basically tells you what what might be on the test out of a quadrillion things, you'll have NO idea what you're facing on the exam. So passing or failing (at least the first time) really doesn't say much. I passed the first time, but I still think the exam is in no way designed to test legal acumen.
 
While the bar has nothing to do with your ability to be a lawyer, the inability to pass would worry me. Either you are not real smart or you are lazy. Take the review class and spend a little (or a lot of) time memorizing everything. 75-80% pass, so it's not like it is really hard.
 
National Boards part 1 after second year of med school. National boards part 2, Federal licensure exam, Texas Jurisprudence after graduation. National Boards part 3-specialty boards-at the completion of residency. Subspecialty boards following fellowship. I am old enough (53) not to have to take re-certification exams-many of my younger partners have to get recertified every five years or so. Surgical subspecialties require testing after five years of practice to become board certified. God as my witness, I will never take another test.
 
I understand the point of this thread but wanted to point out something. Many professional schools use the curriculum to weed out people not the licensure exams. These exams are required to obtain licensure but are not as tough as what I would guess the BAR exam is. Medical school requires years of specialized training to obtain competency. The competency to practice medicine is granted by the supervising physicians who pass these students forward.

What would scare you a bit though about the Texas State Board of Medical Examiners though is to find out how behind they are in investigating complaints on physicians. They do not do a competent job in protecting the public by investigating complaints in a timely fashion. Thus you may have an incompetent physician practicing for years before anybody in the public knows about it. Last time I checked they didn't even have subpoena power to get the records on a physician who transferred into Texas from another state.
 
There is a weed-out in law school. You don't make a two-point your first semester at my school, you are out (and allowed to come back the next year for a last chance).

I've heard the weed-out used to be at a higher level back in the day, as in, "Look at the person next to you... by graduation, one of you won't be here."

I dunno which way is the correct path... be harder in school or give people a chance to make the cut.
 
Is there a qualification process you have to go through to be eligible to take the bar exam?
No i dont mean law school.

Is there something you have to show upon your registration for taking the BAR exam that let you be "allowed" to walk in and take the exam?

I ask because I thought that anyone who poneyed up the cash to pay for the exam would be allowed to take the bar.

If thats the case, then whats stopping a memorization genius from taking 2-3 prep courses, spend a total of 3-4 months studying before the bar, and taking the bar

I know Law school helps in teaching you the various rulings, but if some random yahoo takes the test and passes, does that mean they can legally practice law in their state?
 
The Link

In addition to the background check noted above, you have to graduate from law school or be within four hours of graduation to take the exam. You also have to pass the national professional responsibility exam. If you haven't graduated when you take the bar exam, you have to graduate before you can become a lawyer.
 
Being board certified as a doctor does not guarantee you are a good physician. But failing it four time is very good evidence that you do not have the requisite skills, determination, and intelligence to be a good doctor. As a board certified MD I am biased, but I would avoid anyone who cannot pass the boards.
 
Having said all that about lawyers, the only question I ask my doctor is "you weren't the last in your class in med school, were you?"

I suspect the same thing holds true for doctors as lawyers. Five years into practice, your GPA, class standing, bar scores, etc., don't really come into play
 
USMLE (medical licensure examination) step 1 typically between "preclinical" (first two years) and clinical portions of medical school. Step one is pure multiple choice that is designed to make sure future doctors learned the scientific underpinnings of the medicine they will practice. USMLE step two is typically taken during the final year of medical school. It has two components: a multiple choice test and a clinical skills test in which trained mock patients evaluate the future physicians' history-taking and physical-examination skills. USMLE step three (combination multiple choice and computer simulator) is taken at different times based on particular states' laws. In Texas, most take it during the first (intern) year of residency training. To have a license in Texas (one of the hardest states), one needs to have passed all three steps, to have completed at least one year of residency, and to have passed the medical jurisprudence exam (there are other ways, but they are no cake walk).

Specialty boards differ by specialty, and their purpose (in Texas) is to allow one to present himself as a specialized physician. You don't need them to practice as a specialist, just to call yourself one. With that said, there are precious few orthopaedic surgeons making a living without their boards. In that field, one takes a written examination after completing five years of residency and then an oral one two years later based on surgeries performed during the interim. Recertification is required in the form of a written exam every ten years.

All of these tests help ensure that board certified docs are good test takers. What they do not ensure, of note, is whether the particular physicians exercise good judgment. I can think of one local guy in my field who never passed his boards and one who may or may not be entirely on the up and up. They are not the same fellow. Really no jokers who are not qualified to practice (again, my field only).

I have a friend (in another field) who got sideways with drugs a few years ago. The (Texas State) board came down on him in a swift and terrible fashion. Depending on whether the correct code words are used (in particular, ongoing danger to the public), the board is not required to take immediate action against troublemakers.

Despite being one of those forced to jump through hoops, I am glad not just anyone can walk in off the street and start practicing medicine; the exposure (literal and figurative) of patients to their doc is often extreme, and it should be greatly respected.
 
within reason, i don't care how many times it took my doc to pass(hopefully just once). just as long as he/she is not an untalented overachiever. but they're easy to spot, even in writing.
 
People may have cirumstances on any one day that might affect their performance. But if you have failed it 3 or 4 times there is a problem. Most boards pass the top 90%. That means only the lowest 10% fail. In all honesty, I wish they failed a higher percentage.
Let me put it another way, I have never met a doc who could not pass the boards who I viewed as a good doctor. On the other hand, I do know plenty of docs who have passed the boards who are not good. Think of it as a basic minimum that all reasonably talented physicians should have no problem with.
 
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