Do Humans have an Innate need to create divisions?

H

Hornius Emeritus

2,500+ Posts
So I'm driving around yesterday and I was pondering something my dad had said to me, which is that, if you think about it, war is really a stupid activity for humans to engage in. Now I realize that is a rather trite observation, but it is also true: war kills, injures and maims but it also runs the risk of destroying one's economic base. My house gets destroyed, your house gets destroyed. Why kill each other when we can trade with each other?

So this line of thinking lead me to consider this: we make war on those who are not like us in some way. "We" are us and "they" are them ----- and "they" are not like us. We are Protestants, they are Catholics. We are Jews, they are Muslims. We are Germans, they are French. We are rich, they are poor. We are Longhorns, they are Aggies. They don't believe what we do, so they suck/are dirty/are ignorant/must die.


But the ultimate sad irony is that all of these divisions don't exist in the "real," physical universe but are solely the creation of men. And even if these divisions DO exist in the physical, quantifiable universe (like, say, racial divisions) the divisions are still only important in our own heads, because we --- of our own free will ---- all agree that they are important. Ad yet they are frequently so real and so vital to the human experience that we feel the need to kill others solely because of them ---- because of the man made divisions, these abstract, artificial, arbitrary mental constructs that we cling to.

So I ask the question: do you think that it's possible that this "wantingness" to create boundaries or dividers that exist only in the brains of those who agree to believe in them is an innate, organic part of being human? Do you think that this willingness to kill because I am a Muslim and you are a Jew may just be the natural, genetic extension of what animals do when they establish heirarchies and pecking orders?

Of course, we all agree that OU sucks. But does OU suck in the quantitative, verifiable, "real" universe or does OU suck only because everybody agrees that they suck? And do you think that their is an innate human "need" to establish divisions between ourselves and, if so, why? And if you agree that it IS an innate characteristic of humans, what is the point, evolutionarily speaking? How does it make sense. And does it still make sense when there are six billion of us trying to cohabitate and share a single resource? And will we ever be able to "undo" the perception of divisions that generate so much tragedy and that ONLY EXIST IN OUR OWN MINDS?


Sorry for the ramble and if I am in any way unclear about what I'm getting at. This is sort of the way my mind works when I'm driving.
 
great topic which i'm going to respond to...but let's get it out of the way. ou sucks, and that suckage is real.
 
Agree with JohnnyM. OU's suckage is a universal truth.

As to the original topic, I would say that we, not as humans, but rather as animals have an innate need to create divisions that are ultimately based on survival instincts -- I want/need something that you have and I will take it by force.

The author questions the fundamental rationale for war. Wars are almost always fought over property, although they are usually prettied up with some moral imperitive to make people believe in the righteous of war since HUMANS are usually not inclined to kill one another over property. Animals, for the most part, don't give a ****. If one animal has something that another wants or needs and the other has the wherewithall to take it, he usually does. There is no morality of property rights in the animal kingdom. There is no trading or bartering. There may be symbiotic (i.e, mutually beneficial) relationships but not trade in the way that humans participate in that activity. There aren't that many peaceful animals actually. Those that are tend to be food for the more cruel forms of nature, but they get to have lots of sex to keep their numbers up.

Even the most religious of wars usually amount to issues of property. Although the disenfranchised to whom martyrdom in a religious war is generally an appealing option are usually banking on the property reward in the afterlife.

We are, in very large part, self-interested creatures, with some of us expanding that self-interest to family, to a lesser extent friends, to an even lesser extent community, to an even lesser extent country or race or political affiliation or any other arbitrary grouping that ultimately results in a me/us vs. them.

It is the very finest of us, the very most human of us, that act not out of self-interest. And don't kid yourselves that most moral/religious imperitives are not ultimately self-interested.

It is our humanity that keeps us from the savagery of war. The world would be a better place if we better understood and appreciated our humanity.
 
Short answer......these traits are hard wired in our beings through thousands of years of evolution.

There is a book out recently that discusses your topic, but the title escapes me now.

BL
 
Haven't read much on this topic but agree with the others that it's simply part of being human. It's a part of our code. Regrettable but inescapable.

Sadly, I fully realized this when I watched the movie Independence Day. The only thing that could ever lead to the unification of all humans on this planet is an alien threat. I guess I kind of knew it before that, but it was the first time I actually thought about it.

For some reason the vast majority of humans can't function unless they identify with a group that has an identifiable enemy. This thread will not be allowed to go much further down the road I'm about to reference, but look at how absolutely hateful and ugly politics is. Some people identify with smaller groups and others identify with larger groups.
 
While we might have an innate sense of right and wrong, we are also innately selfish beings and that selfishness takes over most of the time. I'd call it a sinful nature, but you can call it what you want.
 
Yes, and my theory is that in this way we have not yet completely evolved from our lower brain tendencies, which are selfish in nature anyway.
 
The OP gets it right even in relationto it not being exhibited as maniacally as war; schisms in a church, divisions in a neighborhood, etc.

Even in Communism (where "property rights" are a liability so to speak) there is still an element or mentality of "we will not comingle with you because you are different / we are better".

We are always trying to differentiate & subdivide ourselves into categories of superiority.

You're minding your own business @ a traffic light & someone pulls up next to you with their windows down & an earth shaking $ 5,000.00 sound system is drowning out your ability to think... they want you to know how they roll & man, it ain't like you.

From a nationalistic standpoint, we further subdivide ourselves by region, then down by further regionalities, then eventually we're to the point where we'd probably be better off hunting game on our own 1/10th acre of land & raising crops... collect rainwater & try to get our sludge to go downhill on the next poor sap instead of letting it collect here on our own plot 'o heaven.

Probably need to erect a fence & post the kids with guns @ 2 or 3 hour shifts overnight... I'll take the morning 6, then the wife will take another 6 hours.

Funny examples are schisms that happen even within "White Power" type groups. As it is they want their own version of the promised land & even then they find a reason to disagree about it.

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Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

Key point being nothing to kill or die for... Nothing to live for either.

Without us thinking there is some altruistic reason for doing the things we do (beating OU in football for example) we would not have the motivation to excel and improve. If there is no threat to me or my honor, I can spend my life quivering in a corner watching American Idol.
 
Creating a division is not exclusive to humans. As example some species of monkeys move in groups and attack each other just for territory and the occasional female.

It's absolutely useless to try and figure out why we do this. It is what it is. I mean hell, people that think division is wrong are creating division by disagreeing to the opposing ideas.
 
It is human nature and animal nature to compete for dominance. this is bound to cause conflict. It is the way it will always be.
 
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