diplomacy with Iran

NJlonghorn

NJlonghorn

2,500+ Posts
In Godfather II, Michael Corleone said it is smart to "keep your friends close and your enemies closer." This approach to the U.S. / Iran relationship played a role in securing a quick and painless resolution to what could have been a diplomatic disaster under different circumstances.

I'm not saying Obama's foreign policy is perfect (it isn't), or even halfway decent (that's debatable). But one good aspect of what he's done is improving relationships with various enemies around the world, including Iran. There is significant value in having a good working relationship with all nations, friend and foe alike.

I guess what I'm saying is, thank goodness we didn't have a knee-jerk militant in the White House earlier this week. Things could have gotten very ugly, very quickly.
 
Even in today's economy, amazing what 150 billion will buy.

Honestly, just happy those guys are safe.
 
I guess what I'm saying is, thank goodness we didn't have a knee-jerk militant in the White House earlier this week. Things could have gotten very ugly, very quickly.
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Someone could argue that if there were a more respected president in the White House than Iran may not have pulled this stunt in the first place. Don't get me wrong. I am not looking for a warmonger that will start WWIII because someone looks at the US funny. But you do need a president that our enemies believe is at least willing to fight back if necessary. I believe that Iran thinks this administration is weak and unwilling to retaliate under any circumstance which is a very bad situation for the US.
 
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I'm pretty sure if Michael's enemies entered into a non-aggression pact that included no more weapons, and then proceeded to drive a truck through the neighborhood brandishing shotguns and telling everyone they were ready for war, he would probably have taken some sort of action.
 
Who ******* knows what the **** is going on because would you have ever thought 10 years ago that we would be buying trillions of our own bonds to keep our interest rates down to keep the debt service on our 19 trillion dollar national debt reasonable? It is still unfathomable to me but brilliant, I guess, since it is/was working to some extent at least.

I only bring the above up in this context because the whole thing with the ships, Iran, etc, doesn't smell right to me. Not that it really matters.
 
So BO caves and kisses Iran leader's *** even as the leaders mock us with pics of the sailors on their knees with hands on their heads and even one Iranian General saying American sailors cried.
BO gave up 7 convicted or charged Iranians and got back 4 innocent Anericans and 1 who knows who decided to stay in Iran.
Now we learn that Iran captured 3 American contractors. Somehow according to CBS BO is surprised this happened> REALLY?
from link http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kidnapping-of-americans-in-iraq-raises-fears-about-security/
: "Officials in Washington had hoped the Iranian government would tell the militia group to hold off because of all the negotiations surrounding the prisoner swap that saw the release of five Americans."( not quite 5 and not the man who has been there the longest)


and this answer is right up there with " the Video did it"
: The State Department source said the fear was that one of the groups might have "gone off the reservation."
 
Horn6721 said:
So BO caves and kisses Iran leader's *** even as the leaders mock us with pics of the sailors on their knees with hands on their heads and even one Iranian General saying American sailors cried.
BO gave up 7 convicted or charged Iranians and got back 4 innocent Anericans and 1 who knows who decided to stay in Iran.
Now we learn that Iran captured 3 American contractors. Somehow according to CBS BO is surprised this happened> REALLY?
from link http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kidnapping-of-americans-in-iraq-raises-fears-about-security/
: "Officials in Washington had hoped the Iranian government would tell the militia group to hold off because of all the negotiations surrounding the prisoner swap that saw the release of five Americans."( not quite 5 and not the man who has been there the longest)


and this answer is right up there with " the Video did it"
: The State Department source said the fear was that one of the groups might have "gone off the reservation."
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Careful, your puppet strings are showing.
 
Now that is a cogent point that adds to the discussion.
Which part Husker causes you to think of puppet strings?
 
Husker
Yes my first sentence clearly shows my disdain for BJ'S policies. I do not need
a "site" to understand where BO is failing us.
That first point aside all the other points are fact and or quotes.
 
Horn6721 said:
Husker
Yes my first sentence clearly shows my disdain for BJ'S policies. I do not need
a "site" to understand where BO is failing us.
That first point aside all the other points are fact and or quotes.
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Did you point out that 6 of the 7 Iranians that were released had dual US-Iranian citizenship and chose to stay in the US? You certainly knew that one of "ours" chose to stay in Iran and apparently that was important to point out.

Did Iran capture the 3 contractors or a militia "backed" by Iran?

We got 4 US prisoners released. The last remaining one is a recognized CIA operative who was reportedly there on an "unapproved assignment".

What got me in the post is the spin that any positive news is negative yet when Bush was in the White House your posts were the exact opposite. I get it, "partisan" is how you roll but then bring REAL information to this board rather than a regurgitation of the daily Drudge headlines and snipes at the opposition.
 
Horn6721 said:
Please post any drudge articles that YOU think I pirated.
Facts that YOU do not like seem to upset you
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No, incomplete stories to bolster a predetermined narrative upset me. Drudge was an example. It could easily have been any other rightwing site that reports with a slant. Take your pick.
 
Husker
:rolleyes1: so you are saying CBS is a rightwing site? How was it incomplete when I included the CBS link with entire story. I did not pick the narrative, CBS did.

Amazing
 
SH, I didn't realize that 6/7 captives had stayed in the States.
Due to the nature of their crimes, why are we happy they are still here? It seems like this is exactly where they want to be, since they were helping Iran from the US to begin with.
I'm not trying to bash Obama, or the "swap", but shouldn't these guys at least have some type of ankle monitoring, or a method to ensure they don't resort to their old tricks?
Personally, I think their US citizenship should have been revoked, and they should have gone back home.


"Six of the seven have American/Iran dual citizenship and all of them had been convicted or charged with crimes related to selling sensitive equipment to Iran in violation of strict trade embargoes.

Three of them – 69-year-old Bahram Mechanic, 72-year-old Khosrow Afghahi and Tooraj Faridi – were caught up in an alleged conspiracy in Texas to illegally export equipment and supplies to Iran. According to the Department of Justice, the items they sent are frequently used in a wide range of military systems, including surface-air and cruise missiles. Many of them have families living in the United States.

The Other Side of the Iranian Prisoner Swap Play video

Mechanic was allegedly the head of the conspiracy in the U.S., and starting in July 2010 his network allegedly sent at least $24 million worth of commodities to Iran. Until Sunday, both Mechanic and Afghahi were in U.S. jail awaiting trial. Faridi had already been released on $75,000 bond and was awaiting trial.
 
Hollandtx said:
SH, I didn't realize that 6/7 captives had stayed in the States.
Due to the nature of their crimes, why are we happy they are still here? It seems like this is exactly where they want to be, since they were helping Iran from the US to begin with.
I'm not trying to bash Obama, or the "swap", but shouldn't these guys at least have some type of ankle monitoring, or a method to ensure they don't resort to their old tricks?
Personally, I think their US citizenship should have been revoked, and they should have gone back home.


"Six of the seven have American/Iran dual citizenship and all of them had been convicted or charged with crimes related to selling sensitive equipment to Iran in violation of strict trade embargoes.

Three of them – 69-year-old Bahram Mechanic, 72-year-old Khosrow Afghahi and Tooraj Faridi – were caught up in an alleged conspiracy in Texas to illegally export equipment and supplies to Iran. According to the Department of Justice, the items they sent are frequently used in a wide range of military systems, including surface-air and cruise missiles. Many of them have families living in the United States.

The Other Side of the Iranian Prisoner Swap Play video

Mechanic was allegedly the head of the conspiracy in the U.S., and starting in July 2010 his network allegedly sent at least $24 million worth of commodities to Iran. Until Sunday, both Mechanic and Afghahi were in U.S. jail awaiting trial. Faridi had already been released on $75,000 bond and was awaiting trial.
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Yep, it seems the ones that stayed were primarily white collar business owners who the US Government charged with violating the sanctions we had in place.
 
C'mon now, sending items used for wide range of military systems, including surface-air and cruise missiles to a place where people are trying to harm us, is a bit different than the usual white collar crime.
I'm a moderate, but to paint them as the guys who embezzled some money from an employer is more than disingenuous.
 
Hollandtx said:
C'mon now, sending items used for wide range of military systems, including surface-air and cruise missiles to a place where people are trying to harm us, is a bit different than the usual white collar crime.
I'm a moderate, but to paint them as the guys who embezzled some money from an employer is more than disingenuous.
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Sorry, it wasn't my intention to paint them as innocent. I'm sure these individuals will be monitored intently by the FBI for as long as they remain in the US. Honestly, I was surprised they had the option to remain in the US.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...flew-drone-over-us-aircraft-carrier/79505322/

Iran flew a surveillance drone over a U.S. aircraft carrier and took photographs of it as part of a naval drill, Iranian state TV reported Friday.

The report, which did not name the vessel, said the incident happened on the third day of Iranian naval exercises. The channel's website and the semi-official Fars news agency published footage said to be of the drone’s flight.

Fars said an Iranian submarine was also deployed near the U.S. vessel to gather intelligence and capture video of its movements.

"The Iranian submarine managed to take clear pictures of the aircraft carrier without catching the attention of the staff on board," the news agency reported.
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Last month, the U.S. accused Iran of carrying out rocket tests near American warships and commercial traffic in the Strait of Hormuz. In January, Iran captured and briefly held 10 U.S. Navy sailors who entered Iranian waters.

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani arrived back in Tehran on Friday from a five-day visit to Europe where billions of dollars worth of trade deals were signed between Iran and Italian and French companies.

It followed the lifting of many international economic sanctions on Jan. 16 after a landmark deal with the United States and five other world powers in July to curb Iran's nuclear program in return for an end to sanctions.

On Jan. 17, the U.S implemented sanctions against 11 people and companies involved in Iran's ballistic missile program, just one day after President Obama lifted sanctions based on the nuclear program.
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Maybe they figured that sending a drone to buzz one of our ships would get them another prisoner exchange?
 
ProdigalHorn said:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...flew-drone-over-us-aircraft-carrier/79505322/





Maybe they figured that sending a drone to buzz one of our ships would get them another prisoner exchange?
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There are 2 distinct camps with Iran. The diplomats and the hard liners. On one side is Rouhani who appears to want to take Iran through a glasnost type period. On the other is the religious and military hardliners. The sabre rattling is the hardliners.

Wait, that has a strong resemblance to our 2 party political system.
 
Seattle Husker said:
What got me in the post is the spin that any positive news is negative yet when Bush was in the White House your posts were the exact opposite. I get it, "partisan" is how you roll but then bring REAL information to this board rather than a regurgitation of the daily Drudge headlines and snipes at the opposition.
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You're barking up the wrong tree, although I give you props for trying over and over and over again.... Think "Sheldon Cooper" when you think H6721. He honestly doesn't see it.
 
there are more than two sides in Iran but the characterization of Rouhani is correct. Keep in mind that lots of middle class Iranians despise their religious whacko leaders and like the US>

I knew a lot of Iranians when I was going to school in Austin 40 years ago and then in Lubbock afterwards. Many did not want to go home. Some married US citizens just to stay here. There is a lot of goodwill among some of them towards the west in general and the US in particular. If you were a middle class Iranian, where would you rather vacation, in the US or France or in Baghdad?

Breaking the ice with them in terms of commerce is huge and Obama and Kerry should be applauded for being willing to swallow all the zhit that goes with it.

It is not the normalization faction in Iran that is jacking with us, it is their enemies. We need to do what we can to strengthen the moderates' position within their country.
 
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