Did GOP take away the right lessons

BrntOrngStmpeDe

BrntOrngStmpeDe

1,000+ Posts
The self-flagellation that is rampant within the GOP right now is moronic. What do they think they gain by so publicly dickering over 'their compass'?

I for one think they took the wrong lessons away from the last two elections. Now they are talking like they are going to cave on immigration reform, DOMA and all the 'social issues' when the big issue is really that people believe the GOP is directed by super rich patrons and the GOP priority of effort is to protect the super rich at the expense of the other 90%.

The GOP has to get back to a platform that seriously addresses economic opportunity and moderate income folks. The constant refrain of trickle down thinking rings hollow.
 
I don't think it's about the GOP, or the Democrats, or any politicians. We like to blame and ridicule the politicians, but the truth is that the American populace in the early 21st century is shallow and easily deluded, with an almost non-existent threshold for pain.

Losing elections at this point is a kind of badge of honor, as I see it--a sign that you intend to give the patient what he needs, as opposed to what he wants.
 
The last two GOP (actually three) nominees have been complete moderate douchebags, yet all we hear is how the party needs to move center and adopt liberal ideas. How about you nominate a true fiscal conservative? Liberal morons aside, the American people know that we spend way too much money.
 
HH
yes this is true
'the American people know that we spend way too much money.
"
BUT sadly too many people are getting some of this money and they aren't going to give it up, even to save future generations.
 
Agree that Romney's undoing was his pretty awful organizational approach to the campaign. Obama went dirty and partisan and divisive early and never backed off and sank huge sums into tarring Romney's image. That to me made the difference in the battleground states.
 
I really thought that Romney was the right guy to run. Partly because the field was so weak and partly because he had the right economic message. Social issues are a disaster for republicans and he did a good job of staying on message. I really can't believe that Romney let his image get trashed so badly so early. They really had nothing on the guy other than that he is rich and he belongs to the same party as Bush. He should have had an all out campaign of "look at how nice and generous I am". It's stupid but thats the way presidential are these days.

In the future, the republicans need to keep hammering the economic message. People may not be willing to accept the bad news now, but they will as the debt continues to pile up and it starts to change people's daily lives more. Promoting this to hispanics and the middle class is the key. Be the party of opportunity for all, not the party of anti-intellectualism and social issues. Focus on how great america can be if we can get on track without obsessing on every move the left makes.
 
I vote Democratic usually. In my opinion, the GOP has a winning message with fiscal responsibility, but the stand on social issues and failure to realize that the world is changing (for example, young people don't care about straight versus gay, etc.) will make it tough to be competitive in national elections. The world is not going back to what many in the GOP perceive as the "good old days". Those days are over. Just finding a new guy who has the same message on social issues is a loser. Sometimes you have to realize you have a losing hand and fold your cards.
 
You are right on social issues, but it doesn't matter if the middle class rejects the economic issues as they did in the last election. If you are a one issue party, you better be damn good on that issue.
 
I disagree. I don't think the social issues are the primary driver of the 6 point swing in popular vote. I think they are easier to articulate for the massess and certainly more emotional, but at the end of the day...If people really believed that the GOP had the economic answers that would lift the middle and lower economic tiers higher in relative terms, then it would be 53% GOP in the next election instead of 53% Dem.

Right now, people just don't believe that the GOP trickle down actually does trickle down to the rest of us.

IMO, most people look at the immigration and LGBT stuff through rougly the same lens.

'They are people and should be treated as such but that doesn't mean that we should abandon our border control or let them undermine the labor market'

'They are people and should be treated as such but that doesn't mean that we should abandon DOMA'
 
I disagree with those who say the GOP needs to totally abandon social issues. If they do that, their base won’t show up. However, I do agree that there needs to a major overhaul of how the GOP handles social issues.

On gay marriage and gay issues in general, they need to disengage and concede. People think we’re losing that debate, but we actually lost it decades ago. When the public started viewing personal morality as a largely subjective matter based primarily on personal whims, the justification for passing laws on the basis of protecting the public morality was lost. Once that happened, issues like gay marriage were lost.

I think the main reason public opinion polls remained against gay marriage for so long is the “yuck factor.” When I was a kid in the ‘80s, when you saw gays on TV, it was usually dudes walking in a parade in San Francisco wearing nothing but a freedom pouch licking each other, slapping their bare asses, and grabbing each other’s junk. They were also “in-your-face” hateful and offensive to religion. For example, I once saw a lesbian walking in a parade completely nude and carrying a cross. That kind of crap turned the public off big time.

Somewhere in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s, the gays “pulled a David Duke.” Realizing that the freak shows were hurting their image and their political agenda, they dragged the dudes out of the parades put clothes on them, made them look normal, and taught them how to talk without offending the whole country. Unlike with Duke though, the media and pop culture didn’t call ******** on them. Instead, they reinforced the new image in the news, entertainment, education, etc. After 20+ years of that reinvention, the “yuck factor” is gone, and most people under 30 have virtually never seen a gay person portrayed as having anything less than stellar character. The “yuck factor” was a weak basis for keeping the public against gay marriage in the first place, and now that it’s gone, public opinion is turning quickly. The anti-gay marriage agenda is dead for better or worse.

Abortion is a totally different matter. You can justify restricting abortion without resorting to personal morality arguments. (In fact, for me, personal mortality isn’t even relevant to the issue.) Most sensible people know abortion is not the ethical equivalent of having a mole removed. Furthermore, with every medical advance in prenatal care, the arguments that drove Roe v. Wade get weaker and weaker. In this day and age, you really have to work hard to intellectually lose on the abortion issue, and sadly, the GOP and the entire pro-life movement have done so.

The problem with the GOP is that its message on abortion is an incoherent mess, and it allows the issue to get polarized to the extremes. When the issue is polarized, that’s where most people will choose the moderate pro-choicer over the nutcase pro-lifer. That’s how your Todd Akins and Richard Mourdocks hurt you. Keep in mind that Mourdock didn’t lose to a pro-choicer. He lost to pro-lifer who knew how to articulate a sensible pro-life position and didn’t act like an ******* while doing it. Why the hell were they even arguing over the rape issue? Dumb, dumb, and dumb again.

The GOP needs to drop the constitutional amendment position on abortion and adopt a states’ rights position on it. If you have any respect for federalism like the GOP claims to, that’s where it belongs anyway. Individual states should be dealing with abortion in a practical and sensible manner according to the collective wisdom of their citizenry. Get the emotional ******** away from the issue.

Immigration is in the same bag as gay marriage. It’s time to concede the issue. The only difference from the gay issue is that the GOP is totally to blame and completely screwed themselves on the issue. Greed was more important to them than securing the border, so even though the GOP base hates illegal immigration, the GOP leaders celebrate it behind closed doors. It brings in cheap labor and decimates unions, so they look like heroes to their donors. However, they have to give the illusion that they care about illegal immigration, so they immigrant bash. (They can’t employer bash, because the employers are their donors.)

It’s a perfect storm for Democrats, even if the illegal immigrants don’t vote. Each one has 10 kids, and they’re all growing up hearing from some old, fat Republican white guy that their dad who lays bricks for 70 hours per week and mom who cleans hotel rooms for 50 hours per week are a couple of lazy sacks of **** who are only in the country to freeload. How much easier can it be for Democrats to win those votes?

So what can be done? Push for border security as hard as they can, but they have to offer legal status to the illegal immigrants, and they certainly can’t **** with the children of the illegal immigrants who are in the country through no fault of their own. They can require them to learn English first, pay back taxes, pay a fine, etc., but they pretty much have to offer legal status. The GOP’s greed caused irreparable political harm, and they can never fix it. They can only try to salvage things by hoping the Mexicans get sick of paying high taxes and being told they’re stupid for being Christians.

On fiscal issues, stop talking about tax rates and revenue as though they’re synonymous. That’s conceding a totally fraudulent position taken by the Democrats and playing right into their hands. That’s why they lose in these fiscal showdowns.

Stop being ******** to people who are struggling in the weak economy. Instead of badmouthing someone for being on unemployment, do what Reagan did. Explain why their bad situation is the fault of the Democrats (which isn’t hard to do), explain why your policies are better, show a little genuine sympathy for them, and win their vote.

Stop celebrating and nominating professional rich guys and holding them out as heroes. Get a little more populist. We need more John Kasichs (and even Paul Ryans) and fewer Mitt Romneys. Mitt’s not a bad guy. However, he has never bought a loaf of bread in his life and wouldn’t know where to buy one if he needed to get one. He talks about how many Cadillacs he owns and makes $10,000 bets on the fly. None of that’s his fault. That’s just the life he’s always been surrounded by, and I think that he truly didn’t appreciate how rare and how far removed from the ordinary his lifestyle really is.

As wealthy as he is, even George W. Bush could hang out with firefighters and other ordinary folks and not seem out of place. Can you imagine Mitt Romney standing on the pile of rubble at the World Trade Center with his arm around all those sweaty, filthy firefighters? He’d look like Niles Crane (from the show Frasier) at a David Allan Coe concert.

Finally, get an agenda for younger people and quit busting their balls. They’re getting ****** on tuition. They know it and can’t be convinced otherwise. Furthermore, it’s not market forces causing it, so stop acting like they’re just looking for a handout. The government’s enabling the problem. Come up with a market-based plan to fix it that will contrast with the handouts that Democrats offer.

I think conceding on the gay issues will help a lot with younger voters as well. Also, go states’ rights on the drug war. Like abortion, the federal government shouldn't be dictating whether or not someone can buy pot. That should be a state issue. If a bunch of hippies in Oregon want to legalize pot, why is that my business, and why is it Washington, D.C.’s business?

Ugh.
 
I agree with almost all of that. When I talk about social issues, I don't include anortion in that conversation. Long term, with medical advances, the abortion issue is a winner. The increase in the Hispanic population will also help.

The common thread in most of Deez's points was that republicans need to stop being ********. When your criticisms include include name calling of groups like illegals, gays, college students, the 47%, then don't expect them to vote for you. And yes, I know that illegals can't vote. But their friends, families, and soon their children all can and will.
 
It had nothing to do with anything Obama did. The two primary problems were Romney's own creations:

1) Romney's biggest problem was that he was forced to abandon support for his signature piece of legislation while governor, Massachusetts' health care law, by the dynamics of the Republican primaries and then couldn't very well go back on that. He allowed himself to be painted into a corner.

2) The 47 percent video. You can't get up in front of a crowd of extremely wealthy, well-heeled folks and slam 47% of the electorate when that 47% includes seniors, veterans, retired teachers etc....


Both of these things were Romney choices and nobody else's.
 
My post about how republicans need to stop insulting different voting blocs got me to thinking about where people get their political information from. With a few exceptions, most politicians stay on message and try not to offend anybody. But, how many people are deciding which party fits their ideals based on what the politicians actually say. It seems that tv/radio "personalities" have become a much more common source of information and are usually much more offensive in their delivery. Politically minded people that spout off their views are also likely to have an effect on how people view politics. While the R politicians, have a carefully crafted message, their mouthpieces are undermining their ability to win elections, IMO. Turn on talk radio, and picture yourself as one of the 47%. Would you vote for that?

And for the most extreme example, take the five minute texags challenge. Read texags for five minutes and see how many offensive quotes you can find.
biggrin.gif


Texags on free lunch:
Can I claim these kids as dependents now on my income taxes? Maybe we can somehow put something in the food to sterilize the kids so they won't continue to breed.
And they continue that life cycle to their kids, and their kids kids... Very few are motivated to better themselves and get out.

Would you be happy if I said we should send a food package home to their parents to eat that would somehow sterilize them instead.
Low income schools:
I agree with the military boarding school option.

Schools have transitioned from centers of learning to government provided day care already, might as well go the full length and essentially have the nanny state pay parents for their unwanted kids and take them off their hands.
Welfare:
I've said many times that in order to receive welfare payments you should be sterilized.
I also support forced sterilization.

I am being forced, against my will, to pay for these freeloaders food and also for the BC that they refuse to take. And they refuse to take it because they get mo money for mo kids!
It's why you see 35 year old grandmothers picking up kids at these schools.

I don't know if sterilizations will break the cycle, but continuing to reward the behavior with more money sure won't end the cycle
Fat people:
Good, **** fat people.

They're a constant drain on society and are bankrupting us as well.
 
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