Dichotomy Is The Word..............

PhxHorn

25+ Posts
.....that comes to my mind when discussing our running game, or lack of same. On the one hand, you've got statements by Brown that we need to run the ball in short yardage situations, in the red zone, and to consume clock and protect a late game lead. You've got Davis talking about a balanced offense and the need to take what the defense gives you. On the other hand, while we did work more on the run in spring training than the prior year, that portion of the game still accounted for significantly fewer snaps than the passing game - ditto the amount of time the OL spent on pass protection technique vs run blocking.

As I've stated before, I personally could give a **** how we get yards and points, as long as we get them. If the easiest way to do that is through the air, then let's replace Run The Damned Ball (RTDB) with TTFT (Throw The ******* Thing). IMO, this is a squad that has many more weapons and more favorable outlook for success in the passing game vs rushing the ball.

Possibly, this is one of those areas where rational thought is hard to come by - some sort of rite of passage and manliness, where there's simply a visceral need to pound your opponents into submission. Well, that's all well and good, I suppose, but the desire for some event does not necessarily translate into fulfillment. Were that the case, then my "personal equipment" would be considerably enhanced and my frequent, and generally erotic, fantasies involving Elle McPherson, quantities of Wesson oil, and leather fashion statements would be reality.

I've taken issue with the RTDB crowd in the past, not because I necessarily disagree with their sentiments, but because most of them don't bother to state how we're going to get the job done. From my POV, establishing a solid running game involves (1) designing the offense to match your personnel (which means you don't pound Mitchell or Ike between the tackles, (2) developing blocking schemes somewhat advanced from the flying wedge, which would place our OL in a position to be successful, and (3) spending the requisite practice time, both in position drills and in scrimmages, to teach the OL to run block. I don't claim to know anything about coaching or practice time allocations, but I can claim to know a helluva lot about complex training situations and the most effective way to get results. That way, to put it simple terms, is to make the training enviroment parallel the live environment as closely as possible and then to get lots of reps in that enviroment. Practice, to paraphrase the old saying, may not result in perfection, but it certainly results in improvement.

The reason for my suspicions about the running game are fairly simple. To implement what I've outlined above is going to take a lot of practice time and effort and that time must come at the expense of other parts of the team - either the passing game or special teams. As well, I would be equally skeptical about our ability to implement those schemes and techniques, should we elect to do so, during August two a days. Consider that UNL - who I consider to be the model for OL play and rushing effectiveness - likely spends about the same amount of time practicing the run as we spend on the passing game. As well, UNL typically redshirts their OL in one of the first two years and rarely do those guys see the field until their third year and frequently until the fourth year. That means they've got a lot of time to master Tenopir's blocking schemes before they have to do it in live action.

In my mind, Brown's reasons for a running game are legitimate and maybe we'll see success in those areas. We're already pretty effective in the red zone, but short yardage and clock consumption are obviously areas for improvement. However, to spend a lot of time trying to build a running offense, given the amount of passing game talent around, strikes me as contrary to rational thought. After all, the pass can be used to set up the run, and, with our receiving talent, we're not going to see eight in the box very much. I won't be surprised if the normal alignment against us features five-six in the box. When that happens, we should be able to find some running room, even with our relatively straightforward schemes.

PS Assuming anyone is interested in this topic and responds, I may or may not be able to join the dialogue. I'm having considerable difficulty accessing the board.
 
I would like to hear the credo " we need to run the ball in short yardage situations, in the red zone, and to consume clock and protect a late game lead " preached by Davis instead of Brown...and I haven't heard that.

I can't add anything substantive to what you just said, which is in accordance with what you've said all along. Like NU and numerous previous Texas offenses, power running is a team mentality or persona if you will. Lord, if Brown sticks to his guns and we get the run down when it counts...good night Irene...

All of the points you make about practice, repitition, and OL depth/redshirting play into establishing a true system for a running attack. Perhaps the practice and repitition will evolve more when the staff identifies an RB or two or three who deserve the time and energy commitment. Not that RB's don't as of now, but the passing game potential was nowhere near mature last season with no TE's consistently playing and true Fr WR's getting oriented. That being said, I can understand the continued emphasis on the pass during practice.

As you stated, the best antidote for the anemic run offense is a blistering pass attack...for now.
 
Phx: I've been thinking about the issue you bring up and I've come to a somewhat half-assed theory. My theory is that Mack and Co. came in and inherited a reasonably well thought out running game because of our feature back in Ricky. So, they say to themselves, well, we got this guy that can get us 2G's in a season, a question mark in qb(Richard Walton)and some pretty fair receivers. How should we do this? It seems as if they came to the conclusion that, given the personnel and the understood offensive scheme by the players, Brown and Co. decided to leave the offensive philosophy in place. A reasonable thing to do given the circumstances.

Then Ricky and his offensive line leaves and the staff begins to impliment its own offensive philosophy and schemes more related to a fairly sophisticated and complicated passing offense. Thus, what we have seen over 99-00 is the pangs of a new system being put in place. They have recruited personnel to fit it and they continue to orient their practices to putting into place the offensive system they intend to run. The dichotomy that you speak of is really in the two different styles of offense that we've seen since Mack has come on board. Just a guess, fire away at the flaws of my observations.

The best is yet to come.
 
It does seem rather odd that there is a sudden urgency in the "coach-speak" realm to establish an effective running game at this point in the evolution of the Horns under Brown. We have a pedigree at QB, who by all accounts appears ready to assume his status as legend on the 40 acres, surrounded by the best collective group of receivers ever to walk the campus. It only makes sense that the OL should spend time assuring they are not to the passing game what midnight was to Cinderella.

Hearing what Coach Brown has said and witnessing the effort in practice regarding the running game, it only stands to reason that coach-speak was in full effect to toss a bone to the avid "3 yards and a cloud of dust" crew that still lurks. Afterall, in a parking lot full of Benzes, Ferrari's, and BMW's there is still those who stare admiringly at the dirty four-wheel-drive with the big knobby tires.

I don't expect any changes to the running game. I expect it to still come in the delay draw variety with no real pizzaz added. I think we'll see a variety of reverses that prop up rushing numbers and a collective hail from Davis et al proclaiming a successful, balanced rushing attack.

All of this said, I agree with PhxHorn in that I don't care how it's done, I expect to see more points for Horns and less for everyone else, no matter how that is accomplished.
 
I'm on board with Phx, who cares how we get the yards.

That being said there are several reasons I think that the running game will be better next year.

A) Play calling, I think GD will spread the field more and keep our opponents guessing instead of 2 WR, FB, TB TE in close, here we come with Hodges up the middle.

B) Offensive sets, closely related to play calling. 3 WRs to one side Roy to the other, draw to Williams/Ike/Hayter/CB should be good for 6-8.

C) TE play, sorely missing last year. Stack the line or drop back into zone, Simms really needed a safety net and he seems to love the TE.

D) Chris Simms. His growth and maturity as a QB and his quick release/strong arm will prevent teams from trying to crash the line to either sack the QB or disrupt running lanes.

E) I'm thinking a bigger back Hayter/Williams/CB will be more effective than Hodges last year if GD chooses not to change the play calling. Would have loved to seen the 1st team get one or two more series in the spring game to just work on running plays.

JMHO

"The future's so bright we gotta
wear shades"
 
We need to run the ball WELL, not just send the RB up through the tackles for no gain. You can still protect the lead, eat up clock, and wear down the D while gaining 4 yds. a play.

Give 'em hell, give 'em hell....
 
I think you do indeed have to "scheme" to your personel. Heaven knows we look to be loaded at QB and receiver.

However let me play devils advocate for a minute as to why I think the running game is especially important. It buys you time! More importantly it can buy our defense time to adjust to schemes like....the one OU used to rip us a new one last year. Theri defense was good, shut us down three and out and their offense was trotting out with us unable to make the proper adjustments. not saying we would have beaten them with a better running game but I doubt they score 60 on us!

The running game to me is important this year because we do need to be able to control the clock. While a 5 yard pass is just as effective from a yardage gained perspective each incomplete lenthens the game for our defense.

I tend to agree that you can use the pass to set up the run as well as the run to set up the pass. HOWEVER, if you screw up with the pass the first two series and the other team scores twice gringing it down the field I think the emotional momentum shifts to the running team.

I also might say that I think we will be able to execute the pass pretty well and that perhaps we can get away with a little more emphasis on the run in scrimmages. Balance is good, quality balance is best!

Ike I think can be very effective if given the snaps and not sent mindlessly into an 8 man front. Perhaps as PhxHorn noted if we are successful passing, 8 man fronts will be seen about as often as White Elephants.

">
~
 
You know, Phx, I've told you before. If you really want to meet Elle and show her some new uses for Wesson Oil, I can set that up for you the next time you come to Houston. Well, maybe not. The closest I could probably come to getting you Elle is having BRAGG show up somewhere for you in a Speedo.

You lay it there excellently in your post, as always. The simple fact is that we need to play to our strengths next year. Follow the KISS method and simply let the guys play catch. Why have a fullback anywhere near the field unless it's short yardage. Let's see what kind of damage we can do with 3,4, and 5 wides out there on the field with a healthy dose of double tights as well. The running game will suddenly look a **** ton better if we start throwing the ball like this. The difference between Mitchell running into a box filled with 7,8, or 9 animals and CBenson running into a box filled 4,5, or 6 guys rocking back on their heals will be staggering. It is at this point, when the O is clicking and the OL is opening some holes that we'll begin to witness the onslaught of posters on this board screaming "See! Look what Tim Nunez has done! I told all of you meanies that he was the man! I told you!". I can't wait and I'm sure you can't either.

Of course, our success along these lines is predicated upon the idea of Brown and Davis making the consious decision to simply go with our strengths and put the ball up early and often. If we do go out on a "mission" to stuff the ball down the opponents' throats with the running game, I will have to do some adjusting with my screenname. Something more like "already jumped" may be more appropriate.


----------

Poster ineptitude has put me on this ledge, Greg Davis will send me soaring off of it.
 
Nice thoughtful post Phx. I agree that they should do whatever it takes. Go in with a game plan, but throw the book in the shitcan if it is not working. Establishing a running game is great for achieving balance, but if it is not working do not spend the first 45 minutes of clock time trying to force it to work while falling behind. Use the strength that has been so masterfully recruited to the great 40 acres - TTFT and build an early lead, then mix it up with a little more emphasis on the run - but creatively. I sometimes found myself calling the plays before they broke huddle the last two years in those early possessions - and surely if it is so predictable that I see it coming then the defense is all over the calls like stink on poop! With a 14 or 21 point lead acquired by virtue of playing to your strength there is a lot more flexibility to try some draws, pitches, reverses, etc. because the defense is now spread in defense of the outside burners. Giving the rock to a RB/FB/TB when the line isn't stacked is not only more effective in giving him room to move, it allows the entire O to orchestrate the play closer to design and perhaps more importantly allows the ball carrier to build some confidence, which will mean he hits the defender harder and the hole faster because he believes that bigger gain is his to take.
Hook 'Em!!!



Please help slow the overpopulation of aggies and sooners - spay or neuter one TODAY!!!
 
Sign me up for the TTFT club until Benson gets a hang of the plays. Hopefully, he will be functionally in gear by the OU game. 3 wides and double TEs sound great to me. Is there any chance one of you could kidnap GD and assume his identity? You can hide him in my trunk.

-------------------------
COLD REALITY
 
I thought Grease was the word...

"You'll be getting more than just a lawyer, Mr. Simpson. You'll also be getting this exquisite faux pearl necklace, a $99 value, as our gift to you." - Lionel Hutz
 
We need to care how we get the yards, because in two nasty losses last year, we had 6 net yards rushing, COMBINED, in both games (13 yards vs. Stanford, -7 vs. OU). It matters little all the junk rushing yards we get against the hapless, patsy teams, like Kansas (396 yards rushing), or Mizzou (212 yards rushing) when we can't do the same against the zeros and Stanford.

Despite all the big 300 pounders we had, and one All-American, we couldn't get the job done on the ground in these two games. There were games I was wondering why in the world Hodges couldn't get behind Big Leonard and get 5 yards every play. We didn't even get positive yards against the Sooners.

Not that it's a big deal, because a&m didn't have a clue how to stop the passing game, but we only had 109 yards on the ground against the ags, and we were in control. Ditto against baylor (90 yards).

I long for the game when we decide not to pass the ball even one time, because the ground game is chewing up the clock and the scoreboard. Had we mustered a decent drive against OU, consuming the clock on the ground in the first half, things might have been different.

It does matter how you get the yards, when you play the better teams.
 
triplehorn - I posted sometime in the past, and only partly tongue in cheek, that I think Davis only runs the ball to give himself time to figure out his next eleven passing plays. Frankly, that's never bothered me all that much, but our insistence on pounding a 180 lb scatback into eight man fronts became intestinally distressing after awhile. Same deal with Vic Ike - if we're going to put Vic in the prime role, get some plays that get him into the open field. Victor is not going to make anyone a living pounding it inside.

Right now, our offensive approach sometimes strikes me as the old saying about people who keep repeating the same actions and expecting different results. Generally, their sanity is questioned and my own may be in doubt if this approach continues. With the passing attack components in our arsenal, I simply see little reason to not concentrate on that aspect of the game, even though my own personal preferences would be to more fully develop the running game.

Sharpe, your theory is as good as any I've read. I think part of the 1998 offense was simply a felt debt to get Ricky the carries in recognition of his decision to stay. A second part, as you note, was the presence of a very experienced OL.

I looked at Brown and Davis' last two years at ONC at one point, and they ran a fairly balanced attack - about 53-47 run pass. We upped that to 58-42 for 1998, but the passing %age have increased substantially in the last two years. Part of that may be that they haven't found the big back that Brown traditionally favored with the Heels, part of it may be that certain recruits didn't develop to their expectations.

As to what the offense of the future is to be, I haven't a clue. I don't know how much of what we're hearing is coachspeak designed to placate the neanderthals among us and how much ofit is sincerely what we intend to accomplish.

Bullseye, see my comments directly above. I am with you, in that I can't figure out how much of what we're hearing is cake for the huddled masses and how much of it is real. Based on what I saw in spring, we did spend a little more time on running the ball, but (a) it wasn't that much more, (b) I didn't see a lot different in terms of schemes and playcalling than I saw last season, and (c) we still weren't very effective.

echeese, you make some decent points. I too hope we spread the field more - four receivers, of the quality we can field, be it in three wide or two TE sets have got to be a DC's worst nightmare. Mismatch potential oozes from every collective pore and I simply see no way that most of them are not going to opt for nickel or dime coverages. If that occurs, all of a sudden the running lanes are a lot less clogged and we should be able to muster some decent yardage.

As to Hayter and Williams, I simply didn't see it in spring. Kenny still runs tough, but lacks breakaway speed and demonstrated very limited elusiveness, He also continues to cough the rock. Ivan is just too slow of a starter to get to the hole - if he has the opportunity to build up speed, he runs tough, but unless he improves between now and fall, he's going to have a tough time being successful in this offense.

UTViking, I don't think any rational person would dispute your statements. However, what is at issue is, IMO, is the likelihood of our success in doing so. I think, based on my observations of last season and the spring, that likelihood is problematic, especially against quality defenses ( of which we face few next year). Then, the question becomes, again IMO. what we do in those situations or what do we do differently in our approach to game preparation.
 
You bet your top dollar that Dichotomy is the word, Phx...
It should be no secret by now that Brown and Davis have an affinity for running some abherrent form of the WCO. Brown has alluded specifically to finding RBs that are talented enough to block in pass protection (when needed)and more importantly, get yards after contact... better known as YAC.

Ricky Williams was the ultimate YAC guy-- all you needed from Ricky was a small hole and a head of steam and he could get some serious yards. The OL was indeed good, but all we did was zone blocking. Ricky's effectiveness in YAC gave Davis some nice passing options when we had 9 in the box.

With Mitchell, it becomes a different story altogether. The YAC factor, depite Hodges efforts, goes way down. The zone blocking schemes essentially don't change because Davis doesn't have the ability to adapt to the talent he has. Passing becomes somewhat more successsful and numerous, but other teams begin to figure out. Then, we actually begin to telegraph plays we want to run by always running on the side of the offset FB. Pure genius.

Bottom line-- the Greg Davis offense has been terribly dependent on finding that back who has the innate physical and mental ability to get serious YAC. The same can be said about finding like receivers-- Brown and Davis love yards after contact.

This year Davis needs to realize we might not have the type of RB we need to be effective. This means running more misdirection as well as using the pass the set up the run, which admittedly we didn't do well last year. This means the OL has to do a little more than learn zone blocking technique, and may need to hold their blocks a little longer.

My sense is that we will continue to revert back to zone blocking schemes. If one of the RBs, including Benson step up, that's fine-- this offense can be very productive if we find that YAC-type back Davis needs. If not, Davis better be more creative than he was last year.

Otherwise, just get the 4 wides out and play "Chuck n Duck"...


________
Go Horns Go!
 
Nice thread. Hard to disagree with anything here or add very much, except of course to state that the mental image I get of a leather clad Phx cavorting with Elle makes keeping the lobster salad I had for dinner down a real interesting proposition...

Random thoughts...

Balance and Domination on the ground may be mutually exclusive, at least to the degree that UNL takes it, and frankly, even if we wanted to dominate on the ground I don't think we could without a hardcore passing attack to soften up the box. I don't think we have the horses, plain and simple.

After spending some time leafing through web incarnations of Milt Tenopir's Assembly Line , I have serious doubts that our personnel could master that sort of attack at all, unless we started recruiting differently and spent serious years waiting for the pay-off. The OL personnel we have, aside from being the wrong size, don't tend to move well enough laterally, or at least they haven't been put into position to pull effectively in the game tapes I've seen, which I'll admit is what I base 99 percent of my opinions on- on field play during the regular season. Not to mention my questions of the current OC's ability to install and develop that sort of system at all, but that's another thread.

Putting a bigger back in who takes shuffle steps in the backfield or is timid hitting the hole is regression, and definitely does not a power running game make. Hodges, one of the toughest players on the team in my opinion, all 180 pounds of him, started for a reason. If we had a 215 lb back last year who ran as hard and protected the ball as well as Hodges did, he would have started and Hodges would have been given more time in the slot. I guess there are only two ways to solve this- Let someone develop and get mean and confident, or switch horses. We'll see which happens.

If there is a renaissance on the ground next year for the old RTDB crowd, I predict better center play and a truly formidable passing attack creating softer zones and a more forgiving box will be the two biggest reasons. That and the early schedule of course, but I've said that the last 2 years and been wrong...


bo.
 
Thanks guys for some great thoughts and comments. It has been a lot of fun to read.

Here are some of my thoughts.

I look at the situation this way... either you keep the enemy off balance by mixing up your plays or your execute them so well that they can't stop you anyhow. You want to do both, but the more you keep your opponent off balance the
execution of the play matters less.

THUS if GD will keep the defense guessing, the running game does not have to execute perfectly (say as Nebraska) since it is not what the D is expecting us to do. If we can be creative, that in itself will help make the running game effective.

IT doesn't matter if you run or pass, it's the ability to do it when you want to or need to, is what matters. I think this is what Mack Brown wants to get us to.


By default, the offense has the initiative. The attacking D's (in my way of thinking) is to attempt to take some of the initiative away from the O. When you blitz, you hope to either disrupt the timing of the play or even make the play behind the lines.

I would like to see us try, try mind you, a screen pass just to make the D to prepare for something else.

Your thoughts..



When you say TEXAS, you've said it all!
 
Phxhorn, As far as the offense is concerned, I totally agree with the premise that we ought to do one thing and do it really well. The schools that have dominated college football over the years have 3 things in common. They play great defense, get good play from their special teams, and they normally are extremely proficient at either the running or passing game, but rarely both. The FSUs,Oklahomas and Nebraskas of the world have won multiple National titles over the past 2 decades using the above formula.

The first thing that comes to mind when a OC says he wants a balanced offense is " we'll be mediocre at both." Although they won a National Championship a few years back with a freakish defense, Michigan, along with Ohio State, USC and a few other so called national powers, are prime examples of what I'm talking about. Their offenses have no rhyme or reason, not to mention being as predictable as hell. Run on first...run on second 8.. and throw on third and long. It's know wonder these schools underachieve year end and year out with great talent. A deaf, dumb and blind man could come up with a scheme to defense such a inept, predictable offense.

BTW...I was awfully impressed with Will Allen on the RIR Video. This kid not only has great physical tools, but he understands the physics of playing the OL. Lets just say he knows how to use blocking angles and leverage to his advantage.

psy·cho·path-- A person with an antisocial personality disorder, especially one manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior.
 
PHX:
I agree I don't want to see the chris line up in the wishbone and start running the triple-o, but I also contend that if we are going to run the ball at least once a game(maybe more,) then maybe we should have some type of less predictable play set up. I remember thinking about how Mack2 finally learned that the Mc1's draw play wasn't the best and started running the counter-trey. I even think we had a bit of success with it. I would love to come up with some type of bread and butter running play that would hint to the run so much and still give the option to audible out of it into a pass if the "box" gets too crowded. I do love the passing possibilities and am entertained by the "edwards h-back" theory, but don't want to give up on the run. What is the solution.

I would kill everyone in this room for one drop of sweet beer.
-Homer J. Simpson
 
Great post and replies. This reply is really long, so skip it if your in a hurry.

When we recruited the Great Wall of Texas last year, I set aside any visions of a multi-dimensional running game. Frankly, we're built for the lead draw series of 90's Cowboys - provided our FB can win ISOs or kick out DEs. Sigh.
I posted a thread on another board that discussed the fact that IF we want to have a good running game, we need to have a play that is so dominant, it requires the D to adjust to it - then we have intelligent complimentary plays that punish the DC's gamble. I then provided a detailed example, one that Horn fans would know about, but certainly not the only possibility - the counter-tre series. I explained how the 2 pulling linemen look to the inside for blitz, if none - read the DE, if the DE is upfield (a no-no BTW) then the pulling gaurd kicks out and the trailing tackle turns upfield and the RB reads his block. If the DE squeezes down in his C-gap (a yes-yes BTW, when you guys figure that out you will know when Corey makes a nice play w/out a tackle stat), then the pulling gaurd logs or hooks him and the trailing tackle runs around outside of that block with the RB still following him. Notice the if-thens?? The if-thens make the play less of a guessing game and more viable vs different fronts, stunts, blitzes and w/all the playside linemen blocking down (to whoever is there) based on their blocking rules. Every blocker has an angle advantage - the draw doesn't guarantee this. To compensate for that advantage, the DC starts dicking around with his shades and MORE IMPORTANTLY his secondary run support. The good guys in the box see this, and start calling the complimentary plays like the trap - which vary by formation. The prob with our draw series is that the DC doesn't have to worry about a horizontal stretch (the equivalent of the verticle stretch to the passing game). He can safely blitz the pocket and not be caught with too many guys in the congestion while the ball goes outside WITH NUMBERS ADVANTAGE FAVORING THE OFFENSE.
That's like 1/3 as long as what I did previously.

Now for all of you guys like me who skim the long paragraphs, you still picked up on "pulling" or "trap". If a kid can't open his hips and take two steps for a block 6 feet away, with an angle advantage, w/out having to maintain that block for more than .5 seconds - he shouldn't be playing football at any level. It requires much more atheleticism to straight ahead block on a LB and drive him which ever way he goes than to pull to a sitting DE. Believe it or not. Probably the most demanding is the stretch or reach play of the Broncos - they ask their OL to basically run horizontally to the sidelines with Bubba and then let the RB read and cut off of their butts. THAT's tough, we can trap and we can pull, even with the guys we have.... Just not 45 times a game like UNL.
It's not the threat of passing or running outside that prevents DCs from blitzing, it's the threat of getting the ball outside with a numerical advantage of blockers vs defenders. Counter-tres do this, so do screens, so do reverses... Now our bionic QB won't get killed by a blitz when throwing on 2nd and 9. Now safeties walk up on play-action and the Big 3 have room, Chris doesn't have to worry about "robbers" and our receivers don't get the **** knocked out of them when they are up in the air in a helpless situation in front of a 3rd safety...
Hell yea, I want to run the ball - with authority and with a purpose.
IMO, Stoops biggest success was having a tough nosed defense, with a pass oriented offense. I've read some really well respected coaches mention the difficulty of obtaining this. That's another positive to the running game - a tough team.
Mismatches - we all know we will have mismatches vs most secondaries, but in looking at our schedule, we will have mismatches in the trenches too. What if that is the only place we have mismatches vs OU, or FSU, or Ohio State?? It would be nice to know that we can dominate wherever we can find it.
Cedric freeeeeekin Benson.

Sorry about the novel, my way of pointing out that our running scheme sucked last year and how we could avoid it this year.

Do we have to reach such and such yardage to win next year? You never know when the answer to that question will be yes. What if Oregon couldn't stop our running? We would have won - and probably on a pass. Those drops were b/c it was crowded back there - footsteps.


Fundamentals are job one in 2001
 
Nice thread.

Just want to point out one factor that may have hindered the coaches' decision to work on the running game this spring: injuries. With AKH and Holloway down on the offensive side coupled with Stevie Lee's broken foot and the sad loss of Cole there were a limited number of bodies to execute physical drive blocking drills. Sometimes coaches want to work on a particular skill but are hampered by resources(in this case personnel) which can be very frustrating. I'm not pointing this out as an excuse, perhaps the coaches could have run other drills that would not have risked further injury to the interior line positions, but it is a factor when developing a practice schedule.
 
First, I have no intention for this post to come off as argumentative. Second, I agree with the entirety of your post. Third, my comments may turn out to be the dumbass comments of the week. Being fearless as I am, though, here's my spin:

How hard is it to block straight ahead? Since Ricky left, I concede that it's been pretty hard to block straight ahead, sideways or any other way here in Longhornland. Now we have been able to run post-Ricky, at least on paper, because Hodges Mitchell has run up 1000+ seasons.

The problem at RB has been between the tackles and in 3rd and 2 and 3rd and 3 type situations. Hodges wasn't big enough to get those jobs done even though he was big enough to stave off the others.

The premise I throw out, then, is how much has our RB personnel been responsible for our running deficiencies? Will Hayter or Williams or Beltran or Ike "grow up" this off season? Will Benson transfer his HS exploits to level 2?

If any of the backs get a hair better or if Benson comes on -- and by this I mean a RB who gets the 1st down once in a while, to hell with the blocking -- then won't the OL come together that much more quickly?

It seems to me that we've got to spend alot of time on pass blocking. Pass blocking takes much more finesse that straight ahean run blocking. And we've got the beef to block straight ahead.

Now I will further concede that trap blocking and other types of finesse run blocking take more practice than the straight ahead "there's your man, block him" game, and I also note that Mack and Davis have stated that they want to run some traps, etc., but I still think we've got to be able to pass the ball. And that means continue to devote lots of practice time to pass blocking.

I feel like I'm starting to wander, so I'll quit for now, but hopefully I have made some kind of point in all this verbiage. If not, what else is new?
 
Okay, ex-Offensive Linemen of the world, make your opinions known.
As a person who has played all OL positions at one time or another in a previous life, XOVER, I give you my opinions.

Assignment blocking is easier than zone blocking. In the former you are going after a warm body in the latter, you are reponsible for an area. Who do you block if 2 people are in your zone? And can you rely on to pick up the one that you miss?

In the other instance, any block that positions you for better angles against a defender is preferable to one-on-one base blocking. We used to run a simple quick trap play as a staple play in our offense. As a guard, I either double-team a 2-techique with the center (that was fun) or I pulled and plowed into the unsuspecting 5-7 technique on the weak side (even more fun). If they don't know you're coming and you are agile enough, you can make a good share of pancakes.

So, in order for easiest to hardest: double-teaming, seal-blocking, trap blocking, base/assignment blocking, and then zone blocking. The exception is at center, where it takes exceptional skill to snap and execute a trap block. The Nebraska guys do it all the time.

Now to this offense. The Greg Davis scheme emphasizes pass blocking... and that has never really changed. Nor do I expect it to change. Most running plays require the offense to execute base or zone blocking techniques. One of the reasons behind this is that the offense doesn't quite know what it is going to run until after the QB reads the defensive set. Better that the offense understands "drive block the guy in front of you" after an audible rather than "was I supposed to trap block or double team" after the audible. You really look goofy if you miss the audible and trap block on a passing play. I'm speaking from experience.

Given our preference for pass blocking, all we really have been asking the OL to do in run situations is to hold their blocks long enough for the RB to break the LOS. Most of us really underestimate the importance of the Tailback in this offense. We are looking for someone with size who can bust arm tackles with ease, block effectively when needed for pass protection, has good enough hands to go out wide and be a 4th receiver... and so on. Ricky Williams fit the bill perfectly, and we were spoiled.

If nobody steps up at RB, Davis needs to get out the playbook and run more traps, sweeps, and other misdirections-- or just pass the ball. Moreover, we might just need to go out there and run assigned plays like a counter-trey WITHOUT bothering to read the defense. Why we spend 30 seconds to read and react to the defensive alignments just to run a dive play on 3rd and 2 is not only uncreative, it's destructive.

Before I start to foam at the mouth, I'll stop for now...

________
Go Horns Go!
 
Horn in Oz,
I'd like to see our coordinator read defenses!!
I don't care what we run, but I'd like to see 2 things from it:
1) We're better at running it than they are at stopping it (from their base).
2) Have intelligent complimentary plays, or complimentary blocking schemes.

Hell, I'd settle for "wedge" vs that 2 technique!
If they can't stop it.......
I bet "wedge" brought back memories, huh? Those are really fun.

Fundamentals are job one in 2001
 
For those who responded, thanks for some excellent commentary and insight. Circumstances resulted in my being unable to participate in the discussion as much as I would have liked, but I'll see if I can catch, at least in part.

Horn4Life, I would agree that some ball control does give the defense time to regroup, and the OU debacle is an excellent example of what happens when an opponent gets on a role and your offense goes three and out. Whether that's done vis the ground or the air is a matter of indifference to me, but, based on the talent on hand, it looks to me like the air game offers the best bet.

ctj, it's good to see you figured out a way to get your PC out on the ledge with you. As to Bragg in a speedo, that creates a mental picture of such unpleasantness that I'm going to have to put up a post advocating redshirting Benson to get it out of my mind,

As to one back sets, I'm in complete agreement. With four receivers on the field, be it two TEs or three WRs, that's going to create some interesting matchup problems for most DCs. I would anticipate we would see a lot of nickel packages thrown at us, which right away puts only six in the box. As well, I suspect the LBs are going to be thinking about their drop zones more than shooting the gaps.

HorninOz, having read your two responses, I would say that you and I are on the same page as regards our offensive situation. I've long thought that the brute force blocking schemes favored by Nunez and Davis requires a "big back", which was what Brown seemed to employ much of the time at UNC. As you note, Ricky was the perfect type, but, unfortunately those types of players are tough to find. I think both Ivan Williams and Kenny Hayter were recruited with that type of offensive need to be filled - unfortunately, neither has really stepped up, as yet. Possibly, Benson will prove to be the answer - let's hope so.

I think doberbo, in the response directly under yours, hits on the key point and it's one wich I completely agree. I simply think we have neither the personnel, nor will be spend the practice time, to implement the types of blocking schemes to be a strong rushing team. That begs the question of whether Davis can design such a system and whether Nunez can teach that type of run blocking.

Capt, I would agree that keeping the defense guessing is a good thing, although we haven't seemed all that interested in doing so the past couple of years. That hasn't seemed to matter against weaker teams, where we can simply overpower them, but it certainly hasn't helped us when tougher guys are on the other side. I have no feel, in spite of various coaching proclamations, as to whether we might actually diversify. I'm all for it, but agree with the statements already made that I think passing to set up the run offers us the most promising avenue to do so.

Homer, thanks for the discussion of one of my favorite plays, the counter trey, which was noted previously by mudboy. One of the things that stuck in my mind when Brown and Davis showed up was the announcement that we would see no more counters. Well and good, I thought to myself, there are other ways to skin the offensive cat and, with Ricky around following a veteran offensive line, it turned out to be so. With the departure of those components, it turns out that the offense, especially against good defenses, is not quite so productive.

I've read, in several places, that one of the reasons we can't run the counter is lack of tackle speed to get out on the pull. Possibly, that's true, but it's hard for me to believe that our current tackles can't match Oct Bishop for footspeed.

As an aside, I continue to believe one-back sets are the way to go as the base offense, with the two back set coming into play in short yardage situations. IYO, can you still run counters and get the offside linemen out on the pull to lead the way, or does that simply present too much exposure to the backside rush?
 
Welcome back Phx - I hope your absence was either fun or made $ to enjoy later.
I don't equate # of receivers to profficiency via the air, but I do like the stresses different formations put on the players in the wrong colored jerseys. We can throw just fine with 2 backs, 1 back or empty.
Backside on the tre = FB to DE, and center to DT. Neither block requires dominance for a long period of time - just can't whiff. Of course it would probably help if we ran some complimentary plays to that side so they have to at least look at the FBs belly for the ball.
One thing I think helped Ds key our plays (not that that was particularly difficult - but interesting still) is if we do lean on zone blocking vs smaller stunting fronts, I bet we are reducing our splits. If that is picked up on film or field - we're screwed.
I think we are going to start seeing our gaurds pulling more each year. With Simms under-appreciated mobility and with Brock waiting in the wings, I can't imagine us not rolling the pocket - that requires pulling as well. Also, we can buck or power sweep with just the gaurds in ref to your OT speed concern. Plus you don't have to pull the Gaurd accross the center to get a trap or kick-out, playside Gaurd can kick DE out or lead through the alley if DE slants inwards - called a G-block FYI, the O-block would be the backside gaurd doing the same solo. ANYTHING TO DIVERSIFY

Practice time, I just can't imagine these schemes being new to our O-linemen and requiring lecture time 101. I'm sure all of them saw this in HS. As Oz pointed out, these schemes are designed to simplify blocking from a mechanical standpoint, not to mention the huge psychological edge coming from deception. If a DL or blitzer isn't sure where his attacker is coming from, and if he knows that blind penetration is exactly what we want from him, it tends to slow them down and make them conscious of reacting to blocking patterns. If we just straight ahead block or straight drop pass block - we lose those advantages, physical and mental.
Hook-em

Fundamentals are job one in 2001
 
cutter, it's good to see you posting and I agree completely with your comments about "balance equals mediocrity". I don't follow pro football, but it strikes the same thing seems to be true there, even with unlimited practice time. With the NCAA mandated practice limitations in place, I doubt there's enough time available to be good at both facets of the offense.

The other thing that sways towards the pass, other than our QB-Receiver talent lode, is that we recruit for that approach in the line. The majority of our guys fit the profile of the prototypical pass blocker - tall, long arms, and feet quick enough to cut off the outside speed rush. Contrast those guys to the Nebraska linemen, who tend to shorter and somewhat smaller but faster in terms of run blocking. Even with our haul of this year, all of the incoming players, save Mike Garcia, fit the pass blocking model.

DIMYH, there's no doubt the OL injury situation had some impact on the spring work. Still, position drills are about individual effort and are not affected by injuries. For the first time since I've been going to practices, we did spend some time working on run blocking, although pass protection got the majority of the drill time. So be it, but let's forget the balanced offense mantra that we're hearing and put it up.

XOVER and HornInOz - I think HIO has covered the run blocking situation pretty thoroughly. I especially agree with his comments about the requirement for the TB to be able to break tackles. From watching the various tapes, in the Davis/Nunez run blocking schemes, it's pretty much the Samson approach - grab the jawbone of an *** and proceed to beat the **** out of the guy across from you. Manly duty and not for the faint of heart. Unfortunately, that type of scheme rarely results in the gaping holes that both running backs and fans like to see. Rather, it results in what I choose to call seams - small and ofter short-lived cracks in the defensive front. That means the running back has to have the vision and instincts to see the seam developing, the speed to get though it on a timely basis, and the strength to run through the invariable arm tackles.

I realize there are teams that make the above work successfully - hell, we did in 1998. We haven't the last two years, however, for a variety of reasons already discussed. That causes some amount of frustration among the Longhorn faithful, since most of us are curious as to why we pound a Hodges Mitchell or Victor Ike between the tackles and behing an OL that has demonstrated it is not proficient on run blocking. As HIO suggests, it would seem to me that it might be wise to modify that strategy with some more counters or traps that give the OL those coveted blocking angles. To that end, we were pulling the guards more in the spring, although I can't honestly say that the results were all that encouraging.

HIO, I agree completely about merely calling the play and running it, be it a counter or a pass.I think we spend far too much time trying to read the defense pre-snap. As I understand it, most good DCs like to show one or two looks presnap, but don't move the defense into it's final alignment until the QB begins the snap count.
 
Homer, you put up your last post while I was composing another response. I think your earlier two points are well-made and, if we're doing it, it has not been apparent to me, especially the part about complementary plays. It always strikes me that each of our plays represents an independent event, unlinked to any overall offensive strategy. Possibly that's untrue and there's some underlying theme that I've simply missed, but all too many of our opponents, not to mention several posters, have commented on their success in reading our probable playcall, likely based on formation, personnel, and down and distance.

As to base formations, you're likely correct that we can be successful in any number of different formations. However, I actively hope Davis and Brown figure out what kind of offensive front they want to display and then get the right personnel on the field to execute it. My opinion, as is probably fairly obvious by now, is that our personnel - across the board - are much more skilled in the passing game than in the run. If that's the case, then it certainly makes sense to me to replace our least utilized position - the fullback - with an additional receiver, or use your H-back suggestion to get the best of both worlds.
 
Your thoughts regarding settling into one "base" would help create an identity akin to KCHorn's pleadings of a year ago.
I do like multiple looks, b/c I think it uncovers D gameplans quicker. Just as long as we don't overcoach ourselves. Somewhere between the painstaking stubborness of last year and the imaginative fury of off-season posters is a balance that fortunately we have the personnel to execute.
Great thread.

Fundamentals are job one in 2001
 
Many here seem to advocate abandoning the run because we have so many weapons in the passing game.

Others who don't take as strong a stance state that the manner in which you gain yards doesn't matter.

I agree we have the chance to have an unbelievably prolific passing attack, but lacking any sort of viable running attack is a prescription for trouble.

Chris Simms will, at some point in 2001, have an off day throwing the football. There's a decent chance we'll play a game in very inclement weather. We will play at least one team with a very talented secondary, who might even (gasp!) hang with the Big 3. Then what? What if two of those happen in the same game?

When you have to turn to the run, and it gets you 13 yards, or -7 yards, or whatever, you are cooked. And all it takes is one time per year to ruin your run for the MNC.

So, yes, it doesn't matter how you get your yards, as long as you do, in fact, get your yards. But there will come a time during the upcoming season when we will absolutely have to produce in the running game, against a tough damn defense, and the result will determine whether we're a contender or a pretender.
 
So... does anyone want to put this thread in and envelope and send it to Mack?
There are so many good points here, it's hard to disagree with much of anything.

The one thing I will add has a bit of a silver lining-- I don't think we are really all that far off from having a superb offense. We've got almost all the personnel Davis needs to get this thing clicking. If a dependable RB emerges-- one who can break the tackles that Hodges couldn't-- we can give even good defensive teams fits. It was only 3 years ago that teams sold their souls to stop our running attack: the blocking schemes really have not changed much at all since 1998.

Today, as compared to 1998, we have much greater phyical talent at just about all receiver positions, a QB who is so talented he his starting ahead of our very good 1998 QB, an offensive line that isn't quite as good as in 1998, but not all that far off. The missing piece is RB-- and from what I've seen from Cedric Benson, he has the ability to be that back.

So do we need the run? Yes, we do. As GOBH aptly pointed out in a previuos post, we may need to run due a bad day in the office in the passing attack.

Does that mean we have to train our OL to be like Nebraska? Certainly not. We can live just fine on base + zone blocking schemes as long as we can find that one special RB who can find the seam and hit the LOS quickly. If we can't find the RB we need, Davis needs to put more effort on what PhxHorn well describes, as schemes where we create "gaping" holes with better blocking angles, as opposed to those smaller "seams" that only stay open for a half a second.

I love the counter trey, and think we have the ability to run it and execute it well. One way to keep the opposite DE honest is to run a few sweeps and misdirection his way to keep him at home. It takes a pretty athleticly gifted and heady DE to read the scheme and collapse down quicky enough to get to the ball carrier. If the DE has figured it out, you've run the counter trey too damn much.

One other thing: I'm clearly in the similar camp with most others about the FB. If you don't intend to give your fullback any touches-- at the very least use the position as a decoy to keep the defenses honest. The H-Back concept is particularly appealing, especially if the TB position turns into a strength. The less the defense knows, the more you'll keep them guessing-- that goes for formations as well as blocking schemes. And right now, everyone knows we base block and use the FB as a battering ram and not much else.

Wouldn't it be nice if we ran a "hard" script of 20 plays-- without having to waste time and read every defense set (and most teams do indeed tend to disguise until the very last second)-- and hammered on the 3 or 4 plays that actually worked the best? It seems to work pretty well for most WCO teams I've seen over the past 10-15 years...



________
Go Horns Go!
 

Weekly Prediction Contest

* Predict TEXAS-KENTUCKY *
Sat, Nov 23 • 2:30 PM on ABC

Back
Top