Dems have an extremism problem

Mr. Deez

Mr. Deez

Beer Prophet
This has to worry Democrats. This is the second time in the last month that Black Lives Matter protesters have disrupted a speech by Democratic presidential candidates. If the BLM people think Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley are too soft, I can't imagine what they'll think of Hillary Clinton.

Of course, the BLM people aren't going to go vote GOP. However, if the BLM people are protesting HRC, that's going to blunt black enthusiasm for her, which already won't be as strong as it was for Obama for obvious reasons. That's going to be a big problem for them, because for Democrats to win, they need blacks to turn out enthusiastically and vote almost unanimously Democratic. If they don't turn out, the swing states go GOP. In fact, if they stay home in substantial numbers, lots of blue states turn purple.

What's tough is that the BLM movement doesn't seem to have a policy agenda that Democrats can adopt to appease them, nor are they satisfied with race-neutral rhetoric that still addresses their issues. What they seem to really crave is inflammatory, Afrocentric, anti-cop rhetoric. (Remember, it pisses them off if you say all lives matter, because they think you're dismissing their concerns about racial disparities.) They don't want Jesse Jackson rhetoric. They want Louis Farrakhan rhetoric. If Democrats give them what they want, it's going to turn off white moderates and police union members in urban areas, which they can't afford to lose.

It's a definite conundrum.
 
I guess I'm a tweener on this one. Cop kills and unarmed person running his/her mouth or running away, I got a problem. Cop kills an unarmed person who gets into a physical confrontatation, my sympathies are with the cop.
 
Mr. Deez said:
If they don't turn out, the swing states go GOP. In fact, if they stay home in substantial numbers, lots of blue states turn purple.
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If this happens, they get what they deserve from the next POTUS. I still don't get this protest - they have a problem with Bernie F'ing Sanders?
 
chango said:
If this happens, they get what they deserve from the next POTUS. I still don't get this protest - they have a problem with Bernie F'ing Sanders?
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They want someone who's going to appeal directly and exlusively to them. What they're hearing from Sanders and O'Malley is mostly stuff they've heard from Democrats in the past, which hasn't satisfied them. They think it doesn't give their concern its due respect and doesn't ultimately lead to real results.

Also, despite his "socialist" label, Sanders' doesn't really fit the bill of an extreme liberal across the board. If you listen to his rap, he's an advocate for the working class (single payer system, free college tuition, pro-union, etc.) and at least comes across as largely indifferent to identity politics. He's really a throwback to the old school union Democrats that would come out of places like Youngstown, Ohio or Rochester, New York.
 
I had a small firestorm on my twitter feed over the weekend about Sanders and the BLM nonsense...those trying to excuse the BLM taking of the stage first claimed that it was wholly in keeping with how democracy works (never mind that it isn't) to "well, if he is just going to walk away, then he isn't presidential material."

Those are also the same people that conveniently overlook the criminality of many of those who were shot and killed...the one in Arlington wasn't shot for singing too loud- he drove his vehicle INTO a building (you know, a felony). The protester last night was using a stolen handgun and the narrative is now being channeled to 'well, it wasn't right to have officers out of uniform in that environment.'

Do they have potentially valid claims to be aired? Sure. But politicos need not center every event around a single issue. The sooner BLM people realize that fact and attempt to work within the framework of the political arena, the sooner they might see some relief...instead, they seem more content to piss off the very people who might otherwise have at least listened to them and been sympathetic.
 
OK BLM folks, please communicate to people that if in fact your life, black or white, matters, don't get into a gunbattle with police or attack an armed officer. It's not just the cops. Attacking armed pimps, drug dealers, bounty hunters, etc. is extremely hazardous, not matter your skin color.
 
I don't really get the BLM movement. I loved the coopting of the "Black Lives Matter" to "All Lives Matter" because in the end that's what it's about, right? Protest police brutality, it shouldn't matter if it's black, white, blue, red, poor, or wealthy. The attempt to focus 100% on black at the exclusion of all others is what will ultimately lead to it's death.

I don't think the Dems have much to worry about. The BLM movement seems to be about as fringe at the Black Panthers. In fact, from a demography perspective I suspect they are one in the same. Of course, if they keep trying to disrupt Democratic events they'll find themselves without a position on stage and the NCAAP will distance themselves from them.
 
I read a note on Facebook the other day that explained it like this: "If you were at a cancer benefit, you wouldn't go around saying that all diseases need to be cured." I guess I get that, and certainly if you're having a rally specifically about one of the police issues, I understand the focus. But at some point, it has become a case of the cancer benefit advocates walking around to every event they can find, and saying "we need to cure cancer, and if you don't drop what you're talking about and focus on that, then you hate cancer victims."
 
ProdigalHorn said:
I read a note on Facebook the other day that explained it like this: "If you were at a cancer benefit, you wouldn't go around saying that all diseases need to be cured." I guess I get that, and certainly if you're having a rally specifically about one of the police issues, I understand the focus. But at some point, it has become a case of the cancer benefit advocates walking around to every event they can find, and saying "we need to cure cancer, and if you don't drop what you're talking about and focus on that, then you hate cancer victims."
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Thanks for the education. I understand both perspectives and agree with your response.
 
uh, Dems have an extremist problem? That's funny. Taken any looks at the base of the Republican Party lately? Ted Cruz, Donald Trump...et. al.
 
I think there is a problem with police violence in this country. I do think it occurs against all races as this story of a campus cop shooting a white student off campus in san antonio shows.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...ho-killed-UIW-student-yelled-Stop-6161597.php

I do agree that blacks almost certainly are the victims of unjustified police violence more often than anyone else. Something does need to be done. The problem is, the BLM movement seems to go about it the wrong way. The BLM movement protests sympathetic democratic candidates. The BLM movement gets mad when people say "all lives matter." They get mad when someone says "Black Lives Matter, All Lives Matter" in an attempt to show particular sympathy for black victims of unjustified police violence as well as all victims as a whole. There have been tapes of true unjustified police violence. I remember there was a tape of a black man shot in the back running away. Instead of rallying around those, the BLM movement seems to rally around the cases where violence may have been justified or at least unclear like with Michael Brown. Tactics like rallying around people that may not have been victims instead of clear victims (and yes they do exist), alienation of non-black victims of police violence or many of the other tactics discussed in this thread do not help the movement. It leads to lower sympathy and less action. I do understand and sympathize with the BLM movement's frustration, but they are not working for change in an effective manner.

(Disclaimer: I more than understand there are times when police have to use violence, even deadly violence. There are people of all races that force the police to use deadly force. I am not against the police in those situations. My post was just about those officers that use unjustified force or violence.)

Many fringe elements on the right and left have good intentions. I agree with lowering, if not eliminating, unjustified police violence against blacks and others. I am for saving the environment on the left. I agree with dealing with the national debt on the right. Unfortunately, the BLM movement, some environmental groups and the tea party hurt their central worthwhile causes with many of their tactics and antics.

Of course I could be completely out of touch with america. I could be completely wrong about the effectiveness of crazy tactics and antics. Hopefully I am not wrong, because otherwise Donald Trump will end up being president.
 
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Many of my extremely liberal friends are saying that the protestors were hired by Sarah Palin, and the disruption was actually financed by the Republican party. There were never any links I could find, but one posted a paragraph that stated the main female protestor had worked for Palin in the past.

I think it is ridiculous to protest at a Bernie Sander's event...and I don't know what the appropriate response is from any candidate. As dignified as Sanders appeared, I don't think letting a protester "win" by ending the speech is a good one.
Protestor/protester...I need to figure out which is the correct spelling!
 
accuratehorn said:
uh, Dems have an extremist problem? That's funny. Taken any looks at the base of the Republican Party lately? Ted Cruz, Donald Trump...et. al.
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Yes, and if you follow this page, you know I've discussed the GOP's problem at length on several occasions. However, the presence of the GOP's problem doesn't eliminate the Democrats' problem.
 
accuratehorn said:
uh, Dems have an extremist problem? That's funny. Taken any looks at the base of the Republican Party lately? Ted Cruz, Donald Trump...et. al.
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I don't get how Trump means the Democrats don't have problems as laid out by Deez.

Trump is an entertainer. If you're talking about or bring him up non-ironically on any political board, well...that says more about your intelligence than any post on his candidacy.

Cruz no doubt also may have "optics" problems. You would certainly think so...shocker. He is a constitutionalist and defined his bounds. Extremist are those who have no bounds.
 
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Trump isn't an extremist. He's an echo chamber. I'm not convinced I've heard him state a position that he's genuine about aside from that he thinks Rosie is a fat pig. I think he really believes that. But beyond that...
 
Here's a video of the protesters getting on the stage and interrupting Sanders and arguing with the organizer as well as part of the nutcase's "speech." If you've helped organize political speeches before and have seen attempts to disrupt them, you know that there's real political fear at play.

First, ordinarily people who storm the stage a political rally are immediately removed the from the premises, and if they touch anybody or threaten anybody, they get arrested. And that goes double if we're talking about sitting US senators. (Of course, if someone did this at an Obama function, she would have gotten decked before she could open her mouth and might have gotten shot.) Second, even if they aren't totally thrown out of the event, they sure as hell aren't allowed to take the microphone. Sanders let this woman completely take over his event and act like a maniac - calling the self-righteous white liberals (his core supporters) in Seattle racists (which actually made me laugh a little), using foul language, having a 4 1/2 minute "moment" of silence for Michael Brown, etc.

Sanders let this lunatic get away with this for one reason - he knows how bad the optics are of a screaming black woman getting dragged off the stage, which she would resist, which means she'd likely get roughed up some. It connotes images of blacks getting sprayed with fire hoses, bitten by police dogs, etc. That'll kill you in a Democratic primary and suppress black turnout in a general election more than voter ID ever could, and like I said earlier, that's big enough of a factor to turn a presidential election.

Mitt Romney won the white vote - in overwhelmingly Democratic California (53-45) and New York (50-48). That's how important black turnout is for Democrats. A drop-off in black turnout isn't going flip those states or even make them competitive because whites don't vote as a bloc, but would it flip Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Florida? Yep. Would that have given Romney the election? Yep.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Sanders let this lunatic get away with this for one reason - he knows how bad the optics are of a screaming black woman getting dragged off the stage, which she would resist, which means she'd likely get roughed up some. It connotes images of blacks getting sprayed with fire hoses, bitten by police dogs, etc. That'll kill you in a Democratic primary and suppress black turnout in a general election more than voter ID ever could, and like I said earlier, that's big enough of a factor to turn a presidential election.
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Bingo
 
Listening to Urban View today, BLM plans to continue to disrupt HRC and Sander's events. Strangely, they are not planning the same level of disruption with the republican candidates because they feel they will not listen anyway.

it will be an interesting election season.
 
In a strange way, I feel like they are going after the right people (in the wrong way). They play a large part in getting these put in office then largely get ignored other than a few comments.
 
theiioftx said:
Listening to Urban View today, BLM plans to continue to disrupt HRC and Sander's events. Strangely, they are not planning the same level of disruption with the republican candidates because they feel they will not listen anyway.
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My guess is that the real rabble-rousers of the bunch actually understand the 2nd Amendment and realize that the Republicans will have people who believe in open carry and 'stand your ground' even if that ground is at a podium for a campaign speech.

it will be an interesting election season.
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That it will...that it will
 
My eyes are old and I viewed this thread and thought I saw "Dems have an enthusiasm problem." It's a lot different than an extremism problem, but it can be fatal at the polls.

Except for Bernie Sanders, I don't see much show of enthusiasm or any of the Democratic candidates. I guess everbody knows I don't like Ted Cruz much, but I gotta admit that they people who like Cruz enthusiastically like him. There is power in that.
 
I guess here are BLM's explicit demands (gimme, gimme, gimmes except for items already covered by law)

  • We demand an end to all forms of discrimination and the full recognition of our human rights.
  • We demand an immediate end to police brutality and the murder of Black people and all oppressed people.
  • We demand full, living-wage employment for our people.
  • We demand decent housing fit for the shelter of human beings and an end to gentrification.
  • We demand an end to the school to prison pipeline & quality education for all.
  • We demand freedom from mass incarceration and an end to the prison industrial complex.
  • We demand a racial justice agenda from the White House that is inclusive of our shared fate as Black men, women, trans and gender-nonconforming people. Not My Brother’s Keeper, but Our Children’s Keeper.
  • We demand access to affordable healthy food for our neighborhoods.
  • We demand an aggressive attack against all laws, policies, and entities that disenfranchise any community from expressing themselves at the ballot.
  • We demand a public education system that teaches the rich history of Black people and celebrates the contributions we have made to this country and the world.
  • We demand the release of all U.S. political prisoners.
  • We demand an end to the military industrial complex that incentivizes private corporations to profit off of the death and destruction of Black and Brown communities across the globe.
 
Well that list should keep them pretty ticked off for the next century. I suspect someone had that in mind when they wrote it. But I'm cynical that way.
 
A few of those ideas are at least real policy agenda items, but most of them are nothing more than slogans.
 
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