Cuba, Saudi Arabia: Give me consistency

Musburger1

Musburger1

2,500+ Posts
So after nearly 60 years of communist rule, the US is moving toward normalizing relations with Cuba. The rhetoric had always been that the dictatorship has a horrendous human rights record, and therefore pressure and sanctions must be applied in order to weaken the regime to the point the government dissolves or the impoverished people overthrow the regime and then reap the benefits of freedom and democracy. After more than five decades, it's not unreasonable to conclude the policy has failed. And probably the biggest advocates for continuing the policy are the far right among the Republican Party; the neocon wing, if you will.

Across the ocean, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is among the most brutal regimes on the planet. Whereas Castro imprisons dissenters, the King cuts off their heads. Does the US impose sanctions on the Kingdom? Far from it. The US now sells more weapons to the Saudis than any other country. We consider them allies, and look the other way as they fund Wahabi Islam and establish Madrassas around the globe. The Wahabist teachings provide the authority for the most extreme jihadi groups. And yet, our holier than thou right wing zealots who denounce normalizing relations with Cuba dare not speak a word against the Saudis. While they demand we step up against terrorism, they refuse to take on the source. Nor will the media address the obvious contradiction. The hypocrisy is something to behold.
 
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The Saudi regime is brutal and repressive, but more reliable in protecting Western interests than a Saudi Democracy would be. What would replace the brutal regime? I'm guessing an equally brutal and repressive regime dominated by the religiously intolerant. In Syria and Egypt brutal dictators at least protected the safety of religious minorities (something the Saudi's don't do). The fundamentalist Islamic replacements, not so much.
 
To be fair there have been many conservatives or Pubs or right wingers who have called out Saudi Arabia for repression and violation of human rights.
There have been many Dems who have also denounced SA.
 
The Saudi regime is brutal and repressive, but more reliable in protecting Western interests than a Saudi Democracy would be. What would replace the brutal regime?
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I don't think anyone was talking about America should replace their regime, but rather being less cuddly of them. Honestly, I don't hear much from the right or the left (as far as the big & influential folks go, anyway) challenging our position on Saudi Arabia, although at the local level I know plenty of people on both "sides" who do.
 
Statalyzer said:
I don't think anyone was talking about America should replace their regime, but rather being less cuddly of them. Honestly, I don't hear much from the right or the left (as far as the big & influential folks go, anyway) challenging our position on Saudi Arabia, although at the local level I know plenty of people on both "sides" who do.
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The reason the United States caters to the Saudis is quite simply geopolitics. The US requires continuity in terms of the Petrodollar agreement. Human rights has never been and will never be part of the equation. It's merely a propaganda talking point used by politicians to promote agendas.
 
Musburger1 said:
The reason the United States caters to the Saudis is quite simply geopolitics. The US requires continuity in terms of the Petrodollar agreement. Human rights has never been and will never be part of the equation. It's merely a propaganda talking point used by politicians to promote agendas.
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I wouldn't say it's a talking point but it's certainly lower on the priority list than military and economic agenda items. The flipside would be to take the Russia approach and keep it off the priority list completely.
 
Saudi Arabia is a major producer of oil, upon which we are very reliant for our economic and military strength (though less than we used to be.) We can't afford to piss them off. Cuba is a major producer of rum, sugar, and cigars. We can make our own rum, sugar, and cigars. We can easily afford to piss them off. That's the difference.
 
it is not just a matter of our not being able to pizz them off; we have to protect them because if they fall, the islamic holy sites fall to the care of a bunch of people whose problems for us do not consist totally of just refusing to sell petroleum to our chief trading partners. The new bunch would likely be crazier than ISIS because their passions would be more aroused because now they would have both the holy sites and the tool to destroy the infidels or enslave them.

We don't have any choice but to prop up the Saudis and never have. Try to imagine what you would get if they had a fair and free election in Saudi Arabia. Remember when we encouraged that in Palestine? Did not turn out as expected did it? And recall when we overthrew the tyrant Saddam and the Iraqi people were free to elect their own Shiite oligarchy? Recall how well that went over with the Sunnis who had been running the place? All the Iraqi people basking in the light of freedom! And how about Syria? Want to see an elected government there?

In this dangerous world there are rarely good choices to be made and so choices are made among bad alternatives and then you try to work on improving things. Fifty years ago I had a college roommate who was Saudi. He wanted democracy for his country and could detail the sins of the House of Saud for an evening and did. When you asked him what he wanted to replace them with, he said he wanted a democratic republic, like what we have. I asked him what the chances were of that happening if the Saudi royal family all moved to Houston and he said the populace was ignorant and of a fundamentalist bent and it would take some time and more education to get something better. Which is why we have been hauling Saudi kids over here for educations for the last few decades. Too bad more of them haven't studied liberal arts instead of engineering, but you work with what you get.

THe destruction of the Saudi monarchy would be a disaster for Saudi Arabia, for all the middle east and for Europe and to some extent to the US.

Big things can go poof and disappear. Ask the Aztecs.

We aren't safe and aren't going to be for a long time, if ever.

I don't watch much television but a friend showed me the final scene from the show The Sopranos the other day. We are Tony sitting in the diner trying to enjoy dinner with our family. What happens next? Dono for sure, but chances are it is not going to be good.
 
Musberger, that is why someone like crazy Trump has a chance in this election. Career politicians have ruined this country (for their own interests), and people are fed up. Someone running for office without a corrupted political past is refreshing.
 
Of course she's not the only one. All career politicians learn to play the political game for their personal gain. The government is a corrupted mess.
 
Corrupt? When did this happen? Was it corrupt when Andrew Jackson removed the Indians so his electorate could settle on their land? Corruption is as old as government. And our government is a piker at it. I spend some time in Mexico and those guys have made a science and an art of corruption and it is so ingrained that it can't be cured. We are hopelessly backwards compared to Mexicans.

Most of what we call corruption here is merely business buying protection from the government and the rest is business buying business from the government. Again, this goes back to the early days of the Republic.

Corruption is a minor problem here. Compared to some of the other beasts straining at their leashes. Collapsing levels of entry level jobs for all the illiterates is a bit of a long run problem, no? Idle hands deal drugs to make ends meet and they rob people and steal to buy drugs and they sit around getting high all the time. And they play their zhitty music too loud for my tastes. I would rather see them re fabricating radiators or something like they used to.

Roads and bridges and other infrastructure items are not up to par and are not getting replaced or repaired because nobody wants to raise the revenue to pay for it. Even though there are a lot of corrupt construction companies, big ones, who would love to do the work.

Etc.

Quit bhitching about corruption.
 
this is one of the few times I am not being sarcastic. We don't have the funds for the repairs because the source for funding highway repairs, for example, has remained static for years. No politician wants to risk losing his job because he voted to raise the gas tax a few pennies. Ask George H.W. Bush how that whole thing works out.

Corruption here is penny ante stuff compared to most places in the world. It is a source of never ending bs among people who haven't spent much time working with the government of our states. The most corrupt place in Texas is the Rio Grande Valley and the place is booming in spite of the corruption because the corruption is penny ante stuff. If you doubt me compare the levels of corruption of our cops with that on the other side of the river.
 
’60 MINUTES’: Lawmakers Say Redacted Pages Of 9/11 Report Show Saudi Official Met Hijackers In LA

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016...ort-shows-saudi-official-met-hijackers-in-la/

"Lawmakers are calling on the White House to declassify more than two dozen pages in the 9/11 Commission report that they say outlines evidence for possible support from the Saudi government for two hijackers who settled in Southern California.

A CBS News “60 Minutes” report quoted officials familiar with the 2003 report as saying 28 pages of redacted information raises questions over whether Saudi officials were involved in assisting Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar upon their arrival in Los Angeles in Jan. 2000.

Former Democratic congressman and U.S. ambassador to India Tim Roemer told “60 Minutes” the two Saudi nationals found a way to gain access to housing and flight lessons upon their arrival despite “extremely limited language skills and no experience with Western culture.”

“L.A., San Diego, that’s really you know, the hornet’s nest,” said Roemer. “That’s really the one that I continue to think about almost on a daily basis.”

According to the report, witnesses say both al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar met at the King Fahad mosque in Culver City with Fahad al-Thumairy, “a diplomat at the Saudi consulate known to hold extremist views.” He was denied reentry to the U.S. in 2003 for suspected terrorist ties.

Thumairy was a “a ghost employee with a no-show job at a Saudi aviation contractor outside Los Angeles while drawing a paycheck from the Saudi government”, according to the report......"
 
If the Saudi government was complicit in aiding the 9-11 attacks, I say we invade Cuba as soon as possible to rectify the situation.
 
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