Could BO and his minions be any more dangerous?

[Horn6721]

"One of the guns used in the November 13, 2015 Paris terrorist attacks came from Phoenix, Arizona where the Obama administration allowed criminals to buy thousands of weapons illegally in a deadly and futile “gun-walking” operation known as “Fast and Furious.”

A Report of Investigation (ROI) filed by a case agent in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives (ATF) tracked the gun used in the Paris attacks to a Phoenix gun owner who sold it illegally, “off book,” Judicial Watch’s law enforcement sources confirm. Federal agents tracing the firearm also found the Phoenix gun owner to be in possession of an unregistered fully automatic weapon, according to law enforcement officials with firsthand knowledge of the investigation.

The investigative follow up of the Paris weapon consisted of tracking a paper trail using a 4473 form, which documents a gun’s ownership history by, among other things, using serial numbers. The Phoenix gun owner that the weapon was traced back to was found to have at least two federal firearms violations—for selling one weapon illegally and possessing an unregistered automatic—but no enforcement or prosecutorial action was taken against the individual. Instead, ATF leaders went out of their way to keep the information under the radar and ensure that the gun owner’s identity was “kept quiet,” according to law enforcement sources involved with the case. “Agents were told, in the process of taking the fully auto, not to anger the seller to prevent him from going public,” a veteran law enforcement official told Judicial Watch.

It’s not clear if the agency, which is responsible for cracking down on the illegal use and trafficking of firearms, did this because the individual was involved in the Fast and Furious gun-running scheme. An ATF spokesman, Corey Ray, at the agency’s Washington D.C. headquarters told Judicial Watch that “no firearms used in the Paris attacks have been traced” by the agency. When asked about the ROI report linking the weapon used in Paris to Phoenix, Ray said “I’m not familiar with the report you’re referencing.” Judicial Watch also tried contacting the Phoenix ATF office, but multiple calls were not returned.

The ATF ran the Fast and Furious experiment and actually allowed criminals, “straw purchasers,” working for Mexican drug cartels to buy weapons at federally licensed firearms dealers in Phoenix and allowed the guns to be “walked”—possessed without any knowledge of their whereabouts. The government lost track of most of the weapons and many have been used to murder hundreds of innocent people as well as a U.S. Border Patrol agent, Brian Terry, in Arizona"

more at Judicial Watch
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2...un-used-paris-terrorist-attacks-came-phoenix/

IIRC nothing happened to anyone involved with Fast and Furious get fired or arrested? even after one of the guns was used to kill a Border
Agent?
Can't wait to hear apologists say BO etc are not responsible for this.
Or maybe use the well Bush did itn too.

 

[NJlonghorn]

"One of the guns used in the November 13, 2015 Paris terrorist attacks came from Phoenix, Arizona where the Obama administration allowed criminals to buy thousands of weapons illegally in a deadly and futile “gun-walking” operation known as “Fast and Furious.”

A Report of Investigation (ROI) filed by a case agent in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives (ATF) tracked the gun used in the Paris attacks to a Phoenix gun owner who sold it illegally, “off book,” Judicial Watch’s law enforcement sources confirm. Federal agents tracing the firearm also found the Phoenix gun owner to be in possession of an unregistered fully automatic weapon, according to law enforcement officials with firsthand knowledge of the investigation.

The investigative follow up of the Paris weapon consisted of tracking a paper trail using a 4473 form, which documents a gun’s ownership history by, among other things, using serial numbers. The Phoenix gun owner that the weapon was traced back to was found to have at least two federal firearms violations—for selling one weapon illegally and possessing an unregistered automatic—but no enforcement or prosecutorial action was taken against the individual. Instead, ATF leaders went out of their way to keep the information under the radar and ensure that the gun owner’s identity was “kept quiet,” according to law enforcement sources involved with the case. “Agents were told, in the process of taking the fully auto, not to anger the seller to prevent him from going public,” a veteran law enforcement official told Judicial Watch.

It’s not clear if the agency, which is responsible for cracking down on the illegal use and trafficking of firearms, did this because the individual was involved in the Fast and Furious gun-running scheme. An ATF spokesman, Corey Ray, at the agency’s Washington D.C. headquarters told Judicial Watch that “no firearms used in the Paris attacks have been traced” by the agency. When asked about the ROI report linking the weapon used in Paris to Phoenix, Ray said “I’m not familiar with the report you’re referencing.” Judicial Watch also tried contacting the Phoenix ATF office, but multiple calls were not returned.

The ATF ran the Fast and Furious experiment and actually allowed criminals, “straw purchasers,” working for Mexican drug cartels to buy weapons at federally licensed firearms dealers in Phoenix and allowed the guns to be “walked”—possessed without any knowledge of their whereabouts. The government lost track of most of the weapons and many have been used to murder hundreds of innocent people as well as a U.S. Border Patrol agent, Brian Terry, in Arizona"

more at Judicial Watch
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2...un-used-paris-terrorist-attacks-came-phoenix/

IIRC nothing happened to anyone involved with Fast and Furious get fired or arrested? even after one of the guns was used to kill a Border
Agent?
Can't wait to hear apologists say BO etc are not responsible for this.
Or maybe use the well Bush did itn too.

Congrats, Horns6721 -- you finally got Obama!!!! As I understand it, Barrack Obama was an FBI agent in the Phoenix field office between 2006 and 2011 (maintaining cover as a Senator and later President). He personally organized the Fast and Furious operation, personally sold guns to dealers, and personally ensured that the guns fell into the hands of drug kingpins, mass murders, and terrorists. The blood of all of the victims is on his hands.

 

[Horn6721]

NJ
Is that the best you can do? It has been pointed out if you are in charge YOU are in charge. Did you read the part that said AND his Minions?In which branch is the DOJ? Hint it is not the Legislative or Judicial.

But let's say BO did not know about this at first> Did any of his minions?
Tell me NJ What action did BO do after he found out that his minions had lost track of the guns? What did BO do after it was proven one of the Fast and Furious guns killed an American Border Agent?

 

[NJlonghorn]

Did you read the part that said AND his Minions?In which branch is the DOJ? Hint it is not the Legislative or Judicial.... But let's say BO did not know about this at first> Did any of his minions?

The term "minions" refers to unfailingly loyal, sycophantic henchmen. In the case of a US President, this would include top political appointees who work closely with and at the pleasure of the President, but it does not encompass all 2.5+ million federal employees.

I've never seen evidence that any "minions" of Presidents Bush or Obama were involved in or knew about the operation. And no, I don't hold Bush or Obama responsible for things done several reporting levels below them and without their knowledge.

What action did BO do after he found out that his minions had lost track of the guns? What did BO do after it was proven one of the Fast and Furious guns killed an American Border Agent?

Based on the limited information available to me, you, and the rest of the general public, it is fair to question whether Obama and his minions (a proper use of the term, btw) should have done more after the gun-running operations were discovered. Based on that same limited information, however, it is NOT fair for us to answer that question. We simply don't know enough about what was done, or why.

 

[Seattle Husker]

It has been pointed out if you are in charge YOU are in charge.

Did you advocate for George Bush to step down for starting the Iraq War under false pretenses? Didn't think so Mr. Partisan. Yes, I recognize the response will be "Bush...yada yada" but clearly the only thing consistent in the arguments you present is the partisan bias and hypocrisy.

You can say there is no legislative impact here but then also ask why we've had an interim Director of the ATF since 2011. Congress won't confirm the appointment. Do you want to visit ATF funding too? It also doesn't put Congress in a favorable light. You could ask yourself why the ATF has no official leadership and is underfunded but then you'd have to expose the NRA who dictates most of what Congress allows the ATF to do.

It's all partisan ******** with ulterior agendas. Somebody screwed up at the ATF. It may have been a brilliant plan to get intel on Mexican druglords that was executed poorly. It may have been flawed from the start. Without a doubt it was conceived by career bureaucrats and executed poorly.

This conspiracy theory being espoused by Judicial Watch is interesting if any of it can be validated. Keep in mind, it is a conservative nonprofit though who's roots were in attempts to pin Vince Foster's death on Bill Clinton. They provide a valuable service forcing government transparency through FOIA requests and lawsuits. Any evaluation of their lawsuits expose a pro-Republican bias.

 

[Horn6721]

NJ
Is the reason we do not know what was done is that NOTHING was done?
Do you truly think there was an investigation done by the DOJ and they fired the people at the ATF that the DOJ deemed responsible and there was no coverage or record of it?
That is mind boggling.

I bet the people killed in Paris 5 years later wished there had been an investigation and perhaps weapons recovered.
If you were the elected head of an organization that did something so colossally stupid and dangerous would you not make sure you did everything you could to see no more harm was done? We know the Border agent as well as Mexicans were killed by the F & F weapons years ago so I am sure BO knows as well. I wonder if he knows innocent people in Paris were killed as well.

 

[Horn6721]

Husker Just Wow
I am trying to understand how what to ATF did with F&F can possibly be tied to funding.
And false pretenses? Really? You are still trying to stick to that bs?
Is everything a " but but he did it too excuse with you?
Can you stay on topic at al?
The topic is that a gun that the BO admin allowed to walk into Mexico 6 years ago killed innocent people in Paris. It is a fact.

 

[NJlonghorn]

Do you truly think there was an investigation done by the DOJ and they fired the people at the ATF that the DOJ deemed responsible and there was no coverage or record of it?

Of course not. If heads rolled, the heads would have been paraded on the streets as proof that action has been taken.

But for all we know, the investigation might have led to non-public commendations of those involved, and a conscious decisions not to punish anyone. There could be a top-secret justification for the program that makes it worthwhile. By and large, the law enforcement community keeps its operations secret. From time to time, the public learns about a small sliver of what law enforcement is doing. Judging an operation based on that small sliver is unreliable.

I believe that the relevant committees of Congress should have full access to top-secret information when programs are questioned, as a check on the executive branch. Unfortunately, both Congress and the Presidency have become so partisan in recent decades (both parties) that I know longer trust Congress to play that watchdog role. They are not interested in doing the right thing; instead, they either (a) protect a president from their own party no matter what he does or (b) look for "gotchas" against a president form the other party. Then, each side blames the other for being partisan, and the truth becomes an afterthought.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Husker Just Wow
I am trying to understand how what to ATF did with F&F can possibly be tied to funding.
And false pretenses? Really? You are still trying to stick to that bs?
Is everything a " but but he did it too excuse with you?
Can you stay on topic at al?
The topic is that a gun that the BO admin allowed to walk into Mexico 6 years ago killed innocent people in Paris. It is a fact.

Stay on topic? Hypocrisy is a continuing topic Mr. Partisan. Just holding you accountable since accountability appears to be important.

Now, how can a program fail due to lack of funding? Do people and technology grow on trees where you live? Again, you aren't looking for a solutions but merely a partisan gotcha to pin on an opponent.

Hit this link for a list of stories about ATF funding challenges: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=atf+underfunded

Here is an article from the USA Today that lists roadblocks the NRA has put in front of an effective ATF.

A review of congressional legislative records, federal lobbying disclosure forms, as well as interviews with former ATF agents, shows how the NRA has repeatedly supported legislation to weaken several of the nation's gun laws and opposed any attempt to boost the ability of the Bureau of the Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to enforce current laws, including:

• The Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986. This law mandated that the ATF could only inspect firearms dealers once a year. It reduced record-keeping penalties from felonies to misdemeanors, prohibited the ATF from computerizing purchase records for firearms and required the government to prove that a gun dealer was "willful" if they sold a firearm to a prohibited person.
• The Tiahrt amendments. Beginning in 2003, the amendments by then-representative Todd Tiahrt, R-Kan., to the Justice Department's appropriation bill included requirements such as the same-day destruction of FBI background check documents and limits on the sharing of data from traces.
• Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Reform and Firearms Modernization Act. Most recently introduced in 2011, the bill proposed changing several regulations, including redefining the burden of proof for agents investigating firearms dealers accused of selling to prohibited individuals and capping fines for other violations.

 

[Horn6721]

Husker
Take a really deep breath and come into the real world. Fast and Furious was a stupid dangerous idea that has caused many deaths including an American. There was no issue of funding . It was the plan and execution.
Do you even have a thought about the people on Paris who were killed by a gun the Administration knowingly allowed into Mexico?
And btw the only person at ATF that was fired that I can find was a whistle-blower . None of the people who thought up and implemented this insane scheme list their jobs.