Collapse of Christianity Wrecking British Society?

I don't think that people are changing their religions (I.E. chritianity is being replaced on an individual level by Islam) rather I think they are substituting worship of self for worship of God. It will be really interesting to watch what happens to Europe as they continue to lose their religion. A church I went to had a missionary project to stockholm. Most think Africa with missions, but it made sense to me to go to stockholm and share the good news with people there- I will be very interested to see if stuff like this gets traction as I think that there is a yearning in all of us for something greater that secular humanism just doesn't satisfy- I see that in myself anyway and don't know about others.

As to Islam taking over on a nation state level that's not really due to conversions but immigration. Couple that with the thread on Europe's lowest low birth rate and I believe that unless something changes stat, in our lifetime Europe will be more or less a muslim conitinent.

That scares the crap out of me- I'd tend to laugh about those goofy mulim's and their propensity to take offense to stupid ****, but they are scary b/c many times when they take offense they get even with a bullet or a bomb. The peaceful middle (if there really is such a thing in that society) need to freaking reign in the nut cases ASAP.
 
I more or less agree with Wulaw except I don't think people should go over there on missions to attempt to convert nonbelievers. Islam is not filling a void for non-believing Europeans with European roots.

As far as Muslim immigration, I don't think it will be a problem. Children born in England to Muslim parents are generally much more tolerant than their parents. These are going to be the future of Europe, not their parents who were born in foreign lands.

Just like our future here is not in the hands of the Latino immigrants that don't speak English. Its in the hands of their kids who only speak Spanish at home and type crap like ZOMG. Those non-English speaking immigrants' grandkids probably won't speak Spanish at all.
 
Fondren- as a christian you are commanded to go and preach the word to all peoples of all nations.

We used to think that just meant places in africa that don't hear the word, but in places like stockholm for example, less than 1% of the populace attends church, so it makes sense to send missionaries there. If what you mean is that all missions are pointless than that directly contradicts one of the main tennants of the faith, and the idea of "oh my gosh, this is so wonderful I have to share it"

Longwinded way of saying I don't think missions are going away anytime soon, and I think more will probably go to europe in the future
 
Radical Muslims (are there any other kind really?) will take over Europe and then the world. I already have a new screen name picked out...YChang Abdul-Hamid al Houstoni.
 
Is it ever really interesting when a man of the cloth laments the state of society and the absence or ebb of religious devotion?
 
I just got back from the UK. I noticed many of the old churches have been turned into music venues or bars. In fact, my fiancee and I spent the evening drinking local beers at one of those churches.... it was an interesting experience.
 
Stabone-

I really don't understand how that viewpoint is insulting, there is nothing wrong, imo, with sharing something important to you with somebody else- it's sorta what we were made to do. Put it to you this way, you ever have someone see you wearing horn paraphanilia, they make a comment and then you talk their ear off over texas sports?

I do that all the time, I'd say, at least strike up a conversation when someone throws horns up at me when out of the state or out of the country. I sure don't go around handing out tracts or Bibles- Maybe I should and that would make me a better person, but it's not where I'm at or what I'm about in life right now.

Fondren- I don't know how to really answer your charge other than to say that some people are good at what they do, and some people suck at it. I don't think that winning someone over to God through fear or physical need is probably the best way to go about it, nor particularly effective.

I think we as christians need to do a damn sight better job of acting as salt and light as Jesus commanded, and make the joy of living the christian life radiate throughout us, so that others will be banging down our doors to know what it is that makes us so happy.

Haven't you ever just seen someone so together and with it in life that you wanted to know- what's their freaking secret- how are they such an awesome person? That's I think, the only really effective way of ministering.

I think missionaries that are really successful get it, they have to want to go and help people and do good and if the people then ask them their story they can tell it, not fake it or be deceitful or surface help only, so that they can cram their world view down someone else's throat.

And I would seriously question anyone saying America is losing it's faith, I think in many ways there is a revival sweeping accross the land. Youi can't swing a dead cat around without bumping into a 10k plus mega church in the south, and even NYC and the like were responding to stuff liike the Billy Graham cursades and what not post 911. Atheism is gaining but so is christianity in my opinion. I really reject the notion that it's a relic of the past that modern science will overthrow. Maybe our opinions will evolve and our understandings change some but Man has been trying to kill God for 3 or 4 centuries at least in Europe without too much success.
 
Fondren-

I think you are right about the polarization. I don't know if I agree with you about the numbers being in decline. Perhaps total attendence numbers, but I would be willing to wager not total christian numbers.

It used to be you'd get a lot of atttenders b/c that was all there was to do (blue laws) socially required (bible belt) the place to meet girls (most guys) etc. Now, that there is more secularization those reasons don't necessarily exist, and the attenders are more likely to be there for christian purposes then for other purposes.

This also leads to the polarization we agree upon, b/c you lose the buffer of hey- I'm just doing this b/c it's expected socially of me.

jmo
 
The CoE has spouted this stuff pretty much constantly for the past 500 years, though certainly less so recently. Dissenters, atheists, deists, and always, always, always the Catholics.
 
Stabone-

I guess I'm just diffent then you in that regard, I don't have a problem with someone honestly sharing a different viewpoint. Now, if they are rude, picky, pushy or a jerk about it I don't want to have that discussion, but that's b/c of their character trait, not b/c they are telling me something different.

And, I'm much more likely to listen to a friend tell me about something different then anyone else, thus my point about peope being good at their job.


How about this, I'll give you a real world example:

I think credit card companies are basically scum, and debt is more or less bondage and servitude. I see credit card companies signing up the less advantaged (or stupid if you want to include college students) all the time, and they do so by giving away free t-shirts and umbrellas.

it doesn't make me mad, maybe sad for the people getting themselves into trouble.

I've had plenty of discussions on religion and philosophy with Jew's, atheists and other eastern/mystics. Not so much Muslim's b/c my experience has been they don't particularly like to talk.

I've never considered that elitism or been put off by it.

That's basically the point I was trying to make about missions- you have got to want to reach out and help someone on a human level, and then when they ask you about it you tell them about what motivates you or gets you going. I just really disagree with your characterization of how missions works.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen that way (and didn't throughout much of time) just that it shouldn't and isn't best.
 
As human civilization matures, the time of religion, as we have known it, will wane. The only problem is that there is no clear successor yet so we are in a time of flux. A new kind of religion, that is more inclusive and friendly to both science and mysticism, will ultimately emerge.
 
1. British society is fine. It's just becoming more cosmopolitan. For an example of why this is a good thing, see British cuisine.

2. It's outrageous from our point of view. There's other things that we might find outrageous but they wouldn't. Also, certain things are offensive based on history. You can't look at it like an isolated incident.

Also, Christianity is just as rigid as Islam. It's clouded by cultural differences and the vocal minority.
 
Also, Christianity is just as rigid as Islam. It's clouded by cultural differences and the vocal minority.
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well, it's obvious you know very little about either religion....most of the western world is slowly collapsing due to a number of different issues...less real communication (emails instead of a phone calls), too much technology(kids are growing up too fast, having more social issues and are generally more f%$ked up), police state mentality (I think england has a camera for every 4 people, the only place you are not watched is inside your home), envy (advertisers have bombarded us with a desire to have what others don't increasing an imaginary need for more equality and fairness...whatever that is), growing distrust of government (i mean seriously, i could list all of the taxes that have been added in the last 100 years but it would take too long and we are not getting any of these rights back, they will only be slowly taken away), religion (for those that hate it and although they deny it, it has kept the human race together and given a hope that humanity needs...it has also done much more good than harm in the big picture) I realize that atheists like to throw around the few thousand killed in the name of allah and the crusades as evidence of religions cruelty but they pale in comparison to the millions upon millions killed by dictators in countries where religion was not allowed for very specific reasons....hope would be a bad thing.
keep in mind, i am not that religious, i appreciate its history and benefit to society as a whole.
 
When, exactly, was Britain so wonderful to begin with? Every country they ever misruled hated their guts for a century or two after kicking their whiney butts out, including us.

They are so arrogant it is beyond belief and actually believe everybody should be grateful to them for conquering them and looting them for a century or two.

If you look at the problems in the middle east right now a lot of it has to do with how the brits mucked the place up to begin with. They promised the arabs their freedom in return for revolting against the Turks in WW I and then stabbed them in the back immediately after stabbing their french allies in the back.

They are the ones who put Iraq together, not seeming to understand the Iraqis hated them and that putting the Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites under the same ruler was an insane idea. And then they made a Hashemite sheik the king of Iraq. He had never even been there before.

And then there was the wonderful way they treated the Irish.

A few centuries of insane moslems running the place would probably be an improvement.
 
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