CNN - Biofules may threaten environment

T

Texas Wahoo

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They are clearly a mixed bag. I just got back from Malaysia and it appears that much of the country has been turned into Palm Oil plantations. Just 15 years ago, it was all rainforest. Very sad.
 
Can those of you who are calling ethanol a scam please elaborate and cite sources? I've never heard so much hyperbole in my life. It is so much more complicated than that, but of course you can't expect CNN to delve into that in a few paragraphs, I suppose.
 
In the WSJ a month or so ago, they revealed it takes 1,000 gallons of water to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. So, the ethanol producers are sucking all of the water out of the midwest.

THAT is the real problem the U.S. will face over the next 30-40 years. Lack of water. It's not gasoline, global warming, etc. We simply don't have enough water for the growing population. And ethanol policies simply exaggerate the problem.
 
Corn ethanol is not the future - anyone remotely familiar with this topic understands that. It's a placeholder for more effeciently produced ethanol, but you've got to create demand and infrastructure before you can commercially produce the more efficient ethanol from ag waste, commercial waste, etc.
 
It is more complicated that net energy efficiency.
AS the post above points out water usage is and will increasingly be a huge issue maybe THE issue
.But we can't ignore the cost of corn as food to US and third world countries or the unintended consequence that is emerging of the increase in fertilizer run off to our water supply.
The Mississippi River delta is showing effects of that now which will increase.

I reallly don't understand why all these factors are not considered before something like using corn for ethanol is offered as a way to cut down on oil/gas.
 
The headline should read "Corn and cattle raising threaten the environment." Some diesel cars and trucks running around getting McDonald's used grease and reusing it as fuel is a good thing, but converting half the U.S. to make ethanol is not. Not for the environment, at any rate.
Why aren't we pouring massive amounts of research dollars and government grant money into a real possible solution, like the hydrogen fuel cell car, or non-polluting power plants to fuel electric cars? Doesn't make much sense.
 
ousux is right - water is going to be a BIG problem, and in many places already is.

so my question - where can i send some vegetarian cookbooks, bud? because all that red meat you're eating has been raping the land of water for years.

takes about 2,500 gallons to get a pound of beef.

pass the carrots.
 
Re Hydrogen... seems to me the research effort is not badly under scale. The car designs are fairly well understood. Delivery and infratstructure technologies are being tested.

The hiccup is that the only economical source of hydrogen is natural gas. Duh. No net gain.

Hydrogen generation technology is a research need. Shall it come from water? Expensive and energy intensive, and, well, we're short of water...
 
It's fun to be on the same side of an issue as you, 6721. Let's hug!


Re: Hydrogen- it's for that and many reasons that I am becoming more and more convinced that we should begin to convert our generation to nuclear power.
 
BG
Nuke energy makes sense until you get to the part of the spent fuel.
France has more nuclear plants in opertation than anyone and they still haven 't come up with a good plan for the spent waste.

I noticed Russia who has shipped tons of uranium to Iran will be taking that waste back to Russia, At least we know where it is going and we probably know what they will do with it
mega hugs
biggrin.gif
 
Cellulosic ethanol: absolute ideal case, you get a solution of 20% ethanol and 80% water. So you have to boil up 5 gallons of EtOH/ water solution to get 1 gallon of ethanol. That's like finding out that your date has male genitalia when you're in the home stretch: seemed like a good idea at first, but the party's over.
 
If the water is being recycled, then what's the problem? And what happened to all the switch grass talk? Whatever happens, it would be politically nice to be off of oil above all else.
 
Here is a great link. Older, but still basically valid, as it included assumptions about cellulose fermentation. Note that the bold output figures are not the energy contained in the fuel product. Compare the energy input to the ethanol output column.
Link
 
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