Chicago Teacher Strike
- Thread starter theiioftx
- Start date
Larry T. Spider
1,000+ Posts
That would be a bad idea. They are pretty much the highest paid teachers in the U.S. in a state with a struggling economy. You will probably see another round of union busting if they are dumb enough to do this. I'm all for fair teacher compensation and they are fairly compensated.
I'm not anti-teacher union per se. My wife is a teacher, and she is unionized. They can play an important role in protecting whistle blowers, keeping hiring/firing decisions from being political, etc. However, this is where they lose me.
If they want more money, fine. Take a hard line stance in negotiations. If the district doesn't go along, then take their case to the public. Encourage voters to pressure their officials to give the union what they want. If the district still doesn't go along, then bankroll candidates who will support a pay raise.
However, the union should not be able to disrupt the delivery of essential government services like public education, police, fire protection, etc. This is where you need a public official with balls (like Reagan with the air traffic controllers) to order these teachers back to work, and if they don't comply, $hitcan them.
Another line that pisses me off - "This is a difficult decision for all of us to make," said Karen Lewis, the union president . "But this is the only way to get the board's attention and show them we are serious about getting a fair contract which will give our students the resources they deserve."
Nonsense. This has nothing to do with students getting the resources they deserve. This is about the teachers getting more money - nothing else. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but cut the bull$hit. Don't insult my intelligence by hiding behind children who just want to go to school and learn.
If they want more money, fine. Take a hard line stance in negotiations. If the district doesn't go along, then take their case to the public. Encourage voters to pressure their officials to give the union what they want. If the district still doesn't go along, then bankroll candidates who will support a pay raise.
However, the union should not be able to disrupt the delivery of essential government services like public education, police, fire protection, etc. This is where you need a public official with balls (like Reagan with the air traffic controllers) to order these teachers back to work, and if they don't comply, $hitcan them.
Another line that pisses me off - "This is a difficult decision for all of us to make," said Karen Lewis, the union president . "But this is the only way to get the board's attention and show them we are serious about getting a fair contract which will give our students the resources they deserve."
Nonsense. This has nothing to do with students getting the resources they deserve. This is about the teachers getting more money - nothing else. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but cut the bull$hit. Don't insult my intelligence by hiding behind children who just want to go to school and learn.
BTW, they make $76,000 BEFORE benefits. Assuming a 28% burden rate, the average compensation exceeds $100,000 per year.
I believe this becomes a big problem for the Democrats leading up to the election. Everyone is for good pay for quality teaching, but nobody will be supporting these clowns walking out on students.
Unions are a big reason the local governments are in financial trouble.
I believe this becomes a big problem for the Democrats leading up to the election. Everyone is for good pay for quality teaching, but nobody will be supporting these clowns walking out on students.
Unions are a big reason the local governments are in financial trouble.
JohnnyYuma
500+ Posts
JYuma is correct
I wonder how media overall will handle it.
How can they spin it away from away from turning down 16% pay increase when the state and most of the nation is in such dire straits?
How will they spin it away from the teachers already making in most cases twice what the parents make?
Like it or not Unions, especially teachers unions are linked to the Dem party.
I really feel sorry for all the parentrs who had to scramble to find places for their kids OR be forced to leave them alone and pray nothing happens to them
Chicago, even near BO's home is one of most dangerous places in USA.
Shame all over those teachers.
Like AustinBat dsaid I hope they get fired.
?? Can they be fired?
I wonder how media overall will handle it.
How can they spin it away from away from turning down 16% pay increase when the state and most of the nation is in such dire straits?
How will they spin it away from the teachers already making in most cases twice what the parents make?
Like it or not Unions, especially teachers unions are linked to the Dem party.
I really feel sorry for all the parentrs who had to scramble to find places for their kids OR be forced to leave them alone and pray nothing happens to them
Chicago, even near BO's home is one of most dangerous places in USA.
Shame all over those teachers.
Like AustinBat dsaid I hope they get fired.
?? Can they be fired?
Larry T. Spider
1,000+ Posts
Considering that the average teacher in Texas makes less than 50K/yr, they could be doing much much worse.
Edit to add that cost of living is clearly a factor but they make 10k more than Cali teachers on average.
Edit to add that cost of living is clearly a factor but they make 10k more than Cali teachers on average.
majorwhiteapples
5,000+ Posts
I think the $76K includes Hazard pay.
How can this strike be defended by anyone?
This is pure greed and shows complete lack of caring for any of the kids.
reminds me of all the teachers who got sick to protest against Scott Walker.
when you already make MUCH more than nearly all the parents and your benefits are at least twice as good as the average taxpayer paying your benefits these teachers look like greedy selfish people.
This hurts so many kids wouldn't you think BO would say something? it is his homestown and his woird might carry some weight.
This is pure greed and shows complete lack of caring for any of the kids.
reminds me of all the teachers who got sick to protest against Scott Walker.
when you already make MUCH more than nearly all the parents and your benefits are at least twice as good as the average taxpayer paying your benefits these teachers look like greedy selfish people.
This hurts so many kids wouldn't you think BO would say something? it is his homestown and his woird might carry some weight.
He won't have an opinion except that's concerned about the children (won't somebody please think of the children).
He can't come out against unions.
He can't come out in favor of unions lest he be accused of bending to special interest, plus it doesn't seem that america is too sympathetic with the strikers. He'd be a fool to say anything other than no comment.
He can't come out against unions.
He can't come out in favor of unions lest he be accused of bending to special interest, plus it doesn't seem that america is too sympathetic with the strikers. He'd be a fool to say anything other than no comment.
Larry T. Spider
1,000+ Posts
While I think the strike is a bad idea (for the teachers and the community), I agree with their opposition to linking teacher pay to student test scores. It is a terrible idea that punishes the best teachers instead of rewarding them.
I was recently a teacher at a school that adopted one of these schemes that are becoming popular. We were a middle class school that was academically recognized. Two years later, 50% of the teachers are gone and the school is barely academically acceptable. Many of the best teachers at that school left teaching for good. Completely broken.
The best teachers consistently get the toughest kids, and for a good reason. It sucks for them, but they rarely complain when they get the third grader reading on a first grade level. Well, when their pay depends on how the students get divided up, things start to change. Your struggling student is no longer a challenge testing the skills of the best teacher in that grade, its a reason that somebody got paid less this year.
The best teachers will simply go to the best school where they can make more money teaching kids whose parents have them reading before they even start school. I now teach at a very poor school that actually scores well on tests but I would still be out in westlake in a minute if something like this ever became the norm in Texas. Why teach kids that know nothing when they walk through the door when I can teach kids that already know the entire curriculum?
I have lived the unintended consequences of "merit pay" and it is a flat out disaster. I hope the Chicago teachers win that battle.
I was recently a teacher at a school that adopted one of these schemes that are becoming popular. We were a middle class school that was academically recognized. Two years later, 50% of the teachers are gone and the school is barely academically acceptable. Many of the best teachers at that school left teaching for good. Completely broken.
The best teachers consistently get the toughest kids, and for a good reason. It sucks for them, but they rarely complain when they get the third grader reading on a first grade level. Well, when their pay depends on how the students get divided up, things start to change. Your struggling student is no longer a challenge testing the skills of the best teacher in that grade, its a reason that somebody got paid less this year.
The best teachers will simply go to the best school where they can make more money teaching kids whose parents have them reading before they even start school. I now teach at a very poor school that actually scores well on tests but I would still be out in westlake in a minute if something like this ever became the norm in Texas. Why teach kids that know nothing when they walk through the door when I can teach kids that already know the entire curriculum?
I have lived the unintended consequences of "merit pay" and it is a flat out disaster. I hope the Chicago teachers win that battle.
Larry, there's no question that pay based on test scores is going to screw some (in fact many) teachers unfairly. Personally, I'm all ears on other methods.
However, I've never heard of a teacher or a teacher union/organization suggest anything, other than the current method, which is basically that a teacher's performance is irrelevant to his or her pay.
Frankly, that's consistent with the teacher union agenda in general. Because every accountability system has the potential for unfairness, we shouldn't have any accountability system. (And by the way, give us another raise, and whatever you do, don't give the parents of the kids we're failing a voucher.)
However, I've never heard of a teacher or a teacher union/organization suggest anything, other than the current method, which is basically that a teacher's performance is irrelevant to his or her pay.
Frankly, that's consistent with the teacher union agenda in general. Because every accountability system has the potential for unfairness, we shouldn't have any accountability system. (And by the way, give us another raise, and whatever you do, don't give the parents of the kids we're failing a voucher.)
Knoxville-Horn
1,000+ Posts
^^
He's right. I'm a first year 3rd grade teacher in an inner city school - 90% African American. The testing stuff is out of hand. I barely have a few minutes to even touch on science and social studies because I have a grade leader, math coach, reading coach and principal hanging over my head stressing the L.A., Reading and Math scores. Lots of teachers are leaving. It sucks to bust your *** and then get taken down because your kids - that go straight home and watch tv all night because their parents don't care about their schooling - make terrible test scores.
As to the strike. Screw them and screw the unions. I'll never join a teacher's union though I'm constantly pressured to do so at work.
He's right. I'm a first year 3rd grade teacher in an inner city school - 90% African American. The testing stuff is out of hand. I barely have a few minutes to even touch on science and social studies because I have a grade leader, math coach, reading coach and principal hanging over my head stressing the L.A., Reading and Math scores. Lots of teachers are leaving. It sucks to bust your *** and then get taken down because your kids - that go straight home and watch tv all night because their parents don't care about their schooling - make terrible test scores.
As to the strike. Screw them and screw the unions. I'll never join a teacher's union though I'm constantly pressured to do so at work.
Knoxville-Horn
1,000+ Posts
My ^^ was to Larry T. Spider's post though I also agree with Mr. Deez. There should be accountability. I'm all for the "value added" method in which you are scored based on how much your individual students improved from their last grade through the year that you teach them. That's the only fair method IMO. This business of comparing, say, the students in my school with, say, students in an ultra-rich school district is incredibly skewed.
Larry T. Spider
1,000+ Posts
The solution is easier said than done. Do away with unions and write teacher protections into state law to make sure that they have a lunch time, etc. Put the ineffective teachers on a growth plan. If they meet the expectations, great. If not, they don't get a contract for the next year. This is pretty much what Texas does. If there is a consistently crappy teacher in Texas, blame the administrators because they can easily get rid of him/her.
However, if you look at how Texas compares to other states, you will see that teacher quality and unions are not what is driving down student scores. Some of the most heavily unionized states have the best SAT scores. All of the states w/o unions are in the bottom 20% of SAT scores. This is a culture issue, not a teacher quality issue.
However, if you look at how Texas compares to other states, you will see that teacher quality and unions are not what is driving down student scores. Some of the most heavily unionized states have the best SAT scores. All of the states w/o unions are in the bottom 20% of SAT scores. This is a culture issue, not a teacher quality issue.
So here we are 60 days before the presidential elections. Obama's former Chief of Staff is on one side of the dispute and the teachers unions, a tremendously powerful Democratic party special interest group, are on the other. If Obama takes a side, it has to be with the teacher's unions, or Obama's union supporter's across the country will revolt, which could seriously undermine his re-election chances.
No doubt Mayor Emanuel would prefer to show what a great benefactor to education he is by just giving the teacher's unions everything they are asking for here. But the State of Illinois and the City of Chicago are on the verge of financial collapse, so financially he just cannot do it. And the performance of the Chicago public schools has reached a level that is simply intolerable, so that has to be addressed here as well.
We can talk philosophy about what all the most wonderful factors to include in a package for the teachers unions should be, and that is all very nice and fine. But one thing that has been missing from the conversation until now is a discussion of available financial resources. For anyone who has somehow missed it, we are rapidly approaching a collective day of reckoning. Those states and cities such as Illinois and Chicago that have been most aggressive in appeasing these sort of union demands are arriving there first. If they want to somehow pull themselves out of the financial toilet, they are going to have to get this sort of thing under control, much like Scott Walker has done in Wisconsin.
And the money is just one part of it. The performance of these schools has been a disgrace. Steps have to be taken to improve student performance, and Mayor Emanuel is attempting to do that to a limited degree, including holding teachers more accountable. This last element, the teachers unions will not stand for. It is this probably more than the money that this strike is about. This is a struggle for control of the schools and the classrooms in Chicago. And the answer can no longer be to just concede to whatever demands that the teachers unions insist on.
No doubt Mayor Emanuel would prefer to show what a great benefactor to education he is by just giving the teacher's unions everything they are asking for here. But the State of Illinois and the City of Chicago are on the verge of financial collapse, so financially he just cannot do it. And the performance of the Chicago public schools has reached a level that is simply intolerable, so that has to be addressed here as well.
We can talk philosophy about what all the most wonderful factors to include in a package for the teachers unions should be, and that is all very nice and fine. But one thing that has been missing from the conversation until now is a discussion of available financial resources. For anyone who has somehow missed it, we are rapidly approaching a collective day of reckoning. Those states and cities such as Illinois and Chicago that have been most aggressive in appeasing these sort of union demands are arriving there first. If they want to somehow pull themselves out of the financial toilet, they are going to have to get this sort of thing under control, much like Scott Walker has done in Wisconsin.
And the money is just one part of it. The performance of these schools has been a disgrace. Steps have to be taken to improve student performance, and Mayor Emanuel is attempting to do that to a limited degree, including holding teachers more accountable. This last element, the teachers unions will not stand for. It is this probably more than the money that this strike is about. This is a struggle for control of the schools and the classrooms in Chicago. And the answer can no longer be to just concede to whatever demands that the teachers unions insist on.
Obama basically isn't taking sides. He's just calling on the parties to reach an agreement and end the strike. Though he's doing it for the wrong reason (politics), the President shouldn't give a comment beyond that. Ultimately, this is a local issue for the citizens of Chicago.
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