Can't Blame Bush
- Thread starter theiioftx
- Start date
Ag with kids
2,500+ Posts
Of course you can blame Bush...
He has been responsible for all of the following, in no particular order:
Global Warming
The Peloponnesian War
The Great Recession
The Bee Gees
White people
Discontinuation of Dublin Dr Pepper
The hangover I had the night after graduation from A&M
Bill Miller's BBQ
OU
Lima beans
The economy from 1789-2012
And last, but not least...
Ryan Seacrest
He has been responsible for all of the following, in no particular order:
Global Warming
The Peloponnesian War
The Great Recession
The Bee Gees
White people
Discontinuation of Dublin Dr Pepper
The hangover I had the night after graduation from A&M
Bill Miller's BBQ
OU
Lima beans
The economy from 1789-2012
And last, but not least...
Ryan Seacrest
Uninformed
5,000+ Posts
^^^^^
Plus Edward Cullen and the Twilight movies
and all the people who name their kids Bella
Plus Edward Cullen and the Twilight movies
and all the people who name their kids Bella
Uninformed
5,000+ Posts
and Rebecca Black, Scrappy Doo, and Priapism.
hornpharmd
5,000+ Posts
I always wonder makes you guys wake up and decide to post such a generalized thread on a false premise.
I can only speak for myself, so I will. I never blamed past President Bush for high gas prices. The President of the U.S. can only do so much in lower the price at the pump. Too much is driven by speculators and global factors. What the President can do is alter policy in order to plan for the future. President Obama has done just that by getting legislation that will increase fuel efficiency standards in the future. He has also supported the auto's industry and consumer demand for alternate fuel vehicles such as electric vehicles. This is in stark comparison to the drill baby drill mentality of Bush supporters and the campaign of John McCain.
Now consumers need to make their own decisions in regards to their vehicles fuel efficiency. They should realize that gas prices are likely to continue to trend upward due to increased global demand, specifically from China. Since about 2005 the consumer mindset overall has switched and people are wanting, demanding, and purchasing more fuel efficient vehicles. I think they do this b/c they realize where prices continue to go and what is best for their financial situation.
I can only speak for myself, so I will. I never blamed past President Bush for high gas prices. The President of the U.S. can only do so much in lower the price at the pump. Too much is driven by speculators and global factors. What the President can do is alter policy in order to plan for the future. President Obama has done just that by getting legislation that will increase fuel efficiency standards in the future. He has also supported the auto's industry and consumer demand for alternate fuel vehicles such as electric vehicles. This is in stark comparison to the drill baby drill mentality of Bush supporters and the campaign of John McCain.
Now consumers need to make their own decisions in regards to their vehicles fuel efficiency. They should realize that gas prices are likely to continue to trend upward due to increased global demand, specifically from China. Since about 2005 the consumer mindset overall has switched and people are wanting, demanding, and purchasing more fuel efficient vehicles. I think they do this b/c they realize where prices continue to go and what is best for their financial situation.
Uninformed
5,000+ Posts
"Speaker Pelosi blasts President Bush over gas prices"
McCumber joined Speaker Pelosi Monday to dramatize the tough times businesses are having because of fuel costs. The speaker blames what she labels the Bush-Cheney big oil agenda, using graphics to point out gasoline prices have more than doubled in the Bush administration. "This is a scam of the greatest magnitude," says Speaker Pelosi. The Link
"Bush Oil Buddies Divvy Up Iraq (Money Doesn't Talk, It Swears)"
Paul Krugman wrote about it in his New York Times column, but there was very little hard reporting on it. There should be more, and here's why.
Last January, when President Bush announced the surge, he said that its purpose was to give Baghdad time to accomplish so-called "benchmarks," the most important of which is a fair and equitable oil sharing agreement between all three major stakeholder groups in Iraq (Shiite, Sunni and Kurd).
But now, Bush's Texas pal Ray Hunt has grabbed a big 'ol piece of the Iraqi oil patch pie for himself. He's getting his before the government has even worked out its own revenue sharing plan. Bush's crowd is apparently the country's fourth stakeholder.
"Public Faults Bush for Lack of Action on Energy"
Networks Link Bush to 'Skyrocketing' Gas Prices 15 Times More Than Obama"
The Link
All three broadcast networks together averaged just one story about rising gas prices per day. In contrast, when gas prices rose similarly in 2008, the networks averaged more than one story, per network, per day.
It took 24 days, from Feb. 1, to Feb. 24 for the national average for unleaded gasoline to climb from $3.101 to 3.228. The last comparable period of "eye-popping" gas prices: the 20 days between Feb. 21, 2008, and March 11, 2008, when the national average climbed from $3.086 to $3.227.
Some 2008 reports including the March 6, 2008, "Early Show" exaggerated the already rising prices by emphasizing extremely high prices. That morning CBS showed viewers a California gas pump that was charging $5.19-a-gallon for regular unleaded before mentioning the national average for that day, which was $2.02 lower. Some 2011 reports have reversed that trend by downplaying the impact of currently high gas prices on consumers by using words like "inching" to describe rising prices, or calling U.S. prices "a bargain compared to Europe."
And Obama on Bush Oil policies:The Link
And on hornfans:
In reply to:
I thought he went to war for oil.
Or was it some oil pipeline?
Or because Saddam tried to kill his daddy?
Or because he wanted to make Cheney's Halliburton friends rich?
Or was it a ZOG conspiracy?
YoLaDu - Wash, it was all those things. The synergy the Administration felt must have been orgasmic.
LonghornCougar - I think this might be debatable. And are you saying his cabinet wasn't? Cheney might be one of the most corrupt VP's in quite some time. Unless you think that Halliburton's govt contracts were completely clean and on the up and up.
LittleBunnyFooFoo - i don't think anyone's blaming the army. i think the article was pointing the finger at a corporation the vp headed that was awarded a no-bid contract. that's electrocuting soldiers.
In reply to:
Let's get someone in office who cuts government spending and redestributes a smaller budget to the right places.
AustinTxUSA - And would that still be Halliburton?
And there were about a million of these posts before 2008. I remember Roger had a ton of posts on Halliburton and KBR.
McCumber joined Speaker Pelosi Monday to dramatize the tough times businesses are having because of fuel costs. The speaker blames what she labels the Bush-Cheney big oil agenda, using graphics to point out gasoline prices have more than doubled in the Bush administration. "This is a scam of the greatest magnitude," says Speaker Pelosi. The Link
"Bush Oil Buddies Divvy Up Iraq (Money Doesn't Talk, It Swears)"
Paul Krugman wrote about it in his New York Times column, but there was very little hard reporting on it. There should be more, and here's why.
Last January, when President Bush announced the surge, he said that its purpose was to give Baghdad time to accomplish so-called "benchmarks," the most important of which is a fair and equitable oil sharing agreement between all three major stakeholder groups in Iraq (Shiite, Sunni and Kurd).
But now, Bush's Texas pal Ray Hunt has grabbed a big 'ol piece of the Iraqi oil patch pie for himself. He's getting his before the government has even worked out its own revenue sharing plan. Bush's crowd is apparently the country's fourth stakeholder.
"Public Faults Bush for Lack of Action on Energy"
Networks Link Bush to 'Skyrocketing' Gas Prices 15 Times More Than Obama"
The Link
All three broadcast networks together averaged just one story about rising gas prices per day. In contrast, when gas prices rose similarly in 2008, the networks averaged more than one story, per network, per day.
It took 24 days, from Feb. 1, to Feb. 24 for the national average for unleaded gasoline to climb from $3.101 to 3.228. The last comparable period of "eye-popping" gas prices: the 20 days between Feb. 21, 2008, and March 11, 2008, when the national average climbed from $3.086 to $3.227.
Some 2008 reports including the March 6, 2008, "Early Show" exaggerated the already rising prices by emphasizing extremely high prices. That morning CBS showed viewers a California gas pump that was charging $5.19-a-gallon for regular unleaded before mentioning the national average for that day, which was $2.02 lower. Some 2011 reports have reversed that trend by downplaying the impact of currently high gas prices on consumers by using words like "inching" to describe rising prices, or calling U.S. prices "a bargain compared to Europe."
And Obama on Bush Oil policies:The Link
And on hornfans:
In reply to:
I thought he went to war for oil.
Or was it some oil pipeline?
Or because Saddam tried to kill his daddy?
Or because he wanted to make Cheney's Halliburton friends rich?
Or was it a ZOG conspiracy?
YoLaDu - Wash, it was all those things. The synergy the Administration felt must have been orgasmic.
LonghornCougar - I think this might be debatable. And are you saying his cabinet wasn't? Cheney might be one of the most corrupt VP's in quite some time. Unless you think that Halliburton's govt contracts were completely clean and on the up and up.
LittleBunnyFooFoo - i don't think anyone's blaming the army. i think the article was pointing the finger at a corporation the vp headed that was awarded a no-bid contract. that's electrocuting soldiers.
In reply to:
Let's get someone in office who cuts government spending and redestributes a smaller budget to the right places.
AustinTxUSA - And would that still be Halliburton?
And there were about a million of these posts before 2008. I remember Roger had a ton of posts on Halliburton and KBR.
Agreed with Hornpharm- re: gas prices I never blamed Bush although he did support Corn based ethanol and did little to lessen our dependence on oil as a transportation product.
However the high prices of gasoline during his term and Obama's is not because both men did something wrong- it's because there are more people in the world driving more miles and still a finite supply of oil. And even if we have one of the half dozen oil guys on the board come here and brag about some new oil supply pocket here or off Brazil- what they still never can refute is that even if supply grows modestly it is not keeping pace with the demand growth.
Think about it- there is a GLOBAL recession. Demand is RELATIVELY down- without the recession it would be much higher, and yet despite that the market, not some Liberal, is setting the price at $100. Speculation is not that significant that it can keep up a price around $100 for years and overcome fundamentals of the market.
I think the best thing we can do is an all hands approach, supporting new supplies here in the US while sharply improving efficiency via our CAFE standards, and also supporting research into better, cheaper batteries. Oh wait a second- we are doing that now.
Credit to both Bush and Obama for raising CAFE standards sharply to 54.5 mpg by 2025. Bush increased it right before he left office to 30 mpg or so- Obama raised it further to 54.5.
However the high prices of gasoline during his term and Obama's is not because both men did something wrong- it's because there are more people in the world driving more miles and still a finite supply of oil. And even if we have one of the half dozen oil guys on the board come here and brag about some new oil supply pocket here or off Brazil- what they still never can refute is that even if supply grows modestly it is not keeping pace with the demand growth.
Think about it- there is a GLOBAL recession. Demand is RELATIVELY down- without the recession it would be much higher, and yet despite that the market, not some Liberal, is setting the price at $100. Speculation is not that significant that it can keep up a price around $100 for years and overcome fundamentals of the market.
I think the best thing we can do is an all hands approach, supporting new supplies here in the US while sharply improving efficiency via our CAFE standards, and also supporting research into better, cheaper batteries. Oh wait a second- we are doing that now.
Credit to both Bush and Obama for raising CAFE standards sharply to 54.5 mpg by 2025. Bush increased it right before he left office to 30 mpg or so- Obama raised it further to 54.5.
CottonEyedHorn
1,000+ Posts
Obama will have to convince the electorate to suffer through expensive gas for the betterment of the environment while he hones his green energy plan, which is lacking to say the least. He has no interest in strengthening U.S. energy policy vis a vis domestic oil and gas.
Bevo Incognito
5,000+ Posts
Gecko,
The answer is a mosaic of which wind is a part.
We're slowly moving toward decentralization of power generation.
These things are way cool and just getting better and better.
Given that Austin's average wind speed is 6.5 m/s, just one of these on my roof would reduce my electric usage by 20-25%:
The Link
The answer is a mosaic of which wind is a part.
We're slowly moving toward decentralization of power generation.
These things are way cool and just getting better and better.
Given that Austin's average wind speed is 6.5 m/s, just one of these on my roof would reduce my electric usage by 20-25%:
The Link
1) We are a large enough and talented enough country that we can do things in more than one area at once. Increasing drilling does not come at the expense of increasing clean, domestic energy as well. or vice versa. People in oil need to get over the idea that renewable generation is growing in size and capability. If oil is economic, it will remain a large force for decades to come.
2) Gecko- wind energy has nothing to do with transportation oil unless we were to switch every car to become a full electric vehicle. Than we'd power our transportation with electrons, but that is just now beginning with 2.5% of automobiles as hybrids and plug ins.
Secondly- I heard about that documentary with the NIMBYs. It's another topic, and while there are certainly some legitimate complaints, they are outnumbered by the millions of people who have wind on their property and love the money they get, without being bothered by noise or the .00001% chance of an accident. Besides- you use electricity, you need a generation source so pick your poison. Do you want coal in your backyard? A nuclear plant? A gas plant? At least wind pays royalties to farmers who badly need the money.
3) Oil supplies less than 1% of American electricity- and this is primarily as back up generation or on Hawaii. Hawaii is moving towards renewables and cleaner technologies and hopes to end all oil based power generation. Oil is a transportation fuel primarily, not an electricity generation fuel.
2) Gecko- wind energy has nothing to do with transportation oil unless we were to switch every car to become a full electric vehicle. Than we'd power our transportation with electrons, but that is just now beginning with 2.5% of automobiles as hybrids and plug ins.
Secondly- I heard about that documentary with the NIMBYs. It's another topic, and while there are certainly some legitimate complaints, they are outnumbered by the millions of people who have wind on their property and love the money they get, without being bothered by noise or the .00001% chance of an accident. Besides- you use electricity, you need a generation source so pick your poison. Do you want coal in your backyard? A nuclear plant? A gas plant? At least wind pays royalties to farmers who badly need the money.
3) Oil supplies less than 1% of American electricity- and this is primarily as back up generation or on Hawaii. Hawaii is moving towards renewables and cleaner technologies and hopes to end all oil based power generation. Oil is a transportation fuel primarily, not an electricity generation fuel.
for those of you that do not know, this is how gasoline is made and its cost is determined.
We will use the US Energy Information Administration's estimated cost for a gallon of gas in December 2011 which was $3.27.
80% of the cost comes from the price of oil or $2.62. For those of you that don't know, oil is set by the global market. For democrats, that means supply and demand factors. In other words, the $2.62 number is built into the price before a refiner touches the raw material.
One thning that has to be understood is US oil companies produce about 5.5 million barrels of oil a day but the refineries process 15.2 million barrels per day. This means that the oil refineries have to purchase millions of barrels of oil a day at market prices to produce gasoline and other oil related products.
Like any product, there are costs to manufacture it – so the manufacturer tries to recover those costs, plus make a profit, when it goes to sell the product.
The refining portion of a gallon of gasoline has, on average, accounted for about 11 percent of the price in 2011, according to the EIA data through December. That means a little less than 40 cents per gallon would be due to refiners’ costs – wages, equipment, financing and others – plus their profits.
However, refining doesn’t always produce a profit. In December, the data indicates that the U.S. market price for gasoline coming out of refineries was on average about 7 cents per gallon (-2 percent) below the refiners’ cost of crude oil alone, and before accounting for their costs of upgrading the crude into gasoline. In other words, refineries faced a market where domestic gasoline prices were very weak relative to global crude prices.
Refiners are “price takers” that operate on relatively low profit margins that are highly dependent on the market demand for petroleum products. That means at times, the value of a petroleum product coming out of the refinery isn’t enough to cover the costs of obtaining and refining the crude oil. Therefore, in the example above, the cost of a gallon of gas in December 2011 began with the raw materials at $2.62-0.07 for refinining to a total of $2.55 per gallon.
Products then have to get from the manufacturing site to the retail site. When gasoline leaves the refinery, it is shipped largely via pipelines to local terminals. There, distributors load their trucks and transport the gasoline to a service station. Naturally, each step in the distribution chain includes labor, capital equipment and other expenses that must be recovered by operators. Of course, these operators must also compete to sustain their profitability while also paying taxes.
Retailers then set the price at the pump, based on recovering these costs of getting gasoline to the service station and the costs of marketing it to consumers. They also have to generate enough money to pay their taxes and make a profit to keep their business running. And on top of that, they have to collect mandatory state and federal gasoline taxes from the consumer. So we now add about .33 per gallon for the transportation costs to a grand total of $2.88 per gallon. Keep in mind that most of the gasoline stations representing the various oil companies are not actually owned by the oil companies. the are private small business owners trying to make a buck. This can also contribute to the price of gas.
Next we have taxes. In our example, state and federal gasoline taxes equate to 0.39 per gallon bringing our total to $3.27 for a gallon of gas. Total gas taxes per gallon range by state – from lows of less than 30 cents per gallon to highs of more than 60 cents per gallon in places like New York and California.
In the first 2 quarters of 2011, the majors made on average 7-8 cents per gallon of gas. This small profit is based upon investments totalling in the hundreds of billions to simply purchase the oil they may want to refine.
Clearly, it's bush's fault.
We will use the US Energy Information Administration's estimated cost for a gallon of gas in December 2011 which was $3.27.
80% of the cost comes from the price of oil or $2.62. For those of you that don't know, oil is set by the global market. For democrats, that means supply and demand factors. In other words, the $2.62 number is built into the price before a refiner touches the raw material.
One thning that has to be understood is US oil companies produce about 5.5 million barrels of oil a day but the refineries process 15.2 million barrels per day. This means that the oil refineries have to purchase millions of barrels of oil a day at market prices to produce gasoline and other oil related products.
Like any product, there are costs to manufacture it – so the manufacturer tries to recover those costs, plus make a profit, when it goes to sell the product.
The refining portion of a gallon of gasoline has, on average, accounted for about 11 percent of the price in 2011, according to the EIA data through December. That means a little less than 40 cents per gallon would be due to refiners’ costs – wages, equipment, financing and others – plus their profits.
However, refining doesn’t always produce a profit. In December, the data indicates that the U.S. market price for gasoline coming out of refineries was on average about 7 cents per gallon (-2 percent) below the refiners’ cost of crude oil alone, and before accounting for their costs of upgrading the crude into gasoline. In other words, refineries faced a market where domestic gasoline prices were very weak relative to global crude prices.
Refiners are “price takers” that operate on relatively low profit margins that are highly dependent on the market demand for petroleum products. That means at times, the value of a petroleum product coming out of the refinery isn’t enough to cover the costs of obtaining and refining the crude oil. Therefore, in the example above, the cost of a gallon of gas in December 2011 began with the raw materials at $2.62-0.07 for refinining to a total of $2.55 per gallon.
Products then have to get from the manufacturing site to the retail site. When gasoline leaves the refinery, it is shipped largely via pipelines to local terminals. There, distributors load their trucks and transport the gasoline to a service station. Naturally, each step in the distribution chain includes labor, capital equipment and other expenses that must be recovered by operators. Of course, these operators must also compete to sustain their profitability while also paying taxes.
Retailers then set the price at the pump, based on recovering these costs of getting gasoline to the service station and the costs of marketing it to consumers. They also have to generate enough money to pay their taxes and make a profit to keep their business running. And on top of that, they have to collect mandatory state and federal gasoline taxes from the consumer. So we now add about .33 per gallon for the transportation costs to a grand total of $2.88 per gallon. Keep in mind that most of the gasoline stations representing the various oil companies are not actually owned by the oil companies. the are private small business owners trying to make a buck. This can also contribute to the price of gas.
Next we have taxes. In our example, state and federal gasoline taxes equate to 0.39 per gallon bringing our total to $3.27 for a gallon of gas. Total gas taxes per gallon range by state – from lows of less than 30 cents per gallon to highs of more than 60 cents per gallon in places like New York and California.
In the first 2 quarters of 2011, the majors made on average 7-8 cents per gallon of gas. This small profit is based upon investments totalling in the hundreds of billions to simply purchase the oil they may want to refine.
Clearly, it's bush's fault.
BI/mcbrett, I get it....our positions aren't really that far apart. I thought the Windfall documentary looked interesting. Wind is part of the answer, so is solar, nat gas, coal, etc etc
I can afford what ever exotic energy solution you can come up with. But I'm not worried about me (for once) I worry more about the people who can't.
$4.00/gal gas is "meh" to me. I have the good fortune of having a mass transit option to get to work (reimbursed by my employer) and my weekend driving is minimal. People far less fortunate then me on this front don't have the options I do. They will get frickin' crushed by greeny fantasies and the resulting prices will be sold to them as "the oil companies fault".
I can afford what ever exotic energy solution you can come up with. But I'm not worried about me (for once) I worry more about the people who can't.
$4.00/gal gas is "meh" to me. I have the good fortune of having a mass transit option to get to work (reimbursed by my employer) and my weekend driving is minimal. People far less fortunate then me on this front don't have the options I do. They will get frickin' crushed by greeny fantasies and the resulting prices will be sold to them as "the oil companies fault".
Oil supplies less than 1% of American electricity- and this is primarily as back up generation or on Hawaii. Hawaii is moving towards renewables and cleaner technologies and hopes to end all oil based power generation. Oil is a transportation fuel primarily, not an electricity generation fuel.
__________________________________________________
71% of all electricity generation comes from hydrocarbons. 1/2 of this comes from coal. The market is and will remain huge. By 2030, 88% of all North American energy consumption will come from non-renewable sources of energy...nuclear, coal, oil and natural gas.
There will be renewable energy growth during this time frame, up to 452% in growth. But it will still only account for 12% of total energy consumption.
__________________________________________________
71% of all electricity generation comes from hydrocarbons. 1/2 of this comes from coal. The market is and will remain huge. By 2030, 88% of all North American energy consumption will come from non-renewable sources of energy...nuclear, coal, oil and natural gas.
There will be renewable energy growth during this time frame, up to 452% in growth. But it will still only account for 12% of total energy consumption.
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