Canon 40d vs. Nikon 80
- Thread starter Macanudo
- Start date
hullabelew
1,000+ Posts
Check out dpreview.com for a comparison. As brief or as in depth as you want to be on that site. From what I can tell after talking with my photog buddies, if you have Canon or Nikon lenses, go with that camera. If not, pick the one that feels the best in your hand. I like the body of the Nikon better than the Canon, but that is just me.
jadedscenester
100+ Posts
no personal experience with either camera, but i'm learning on a rebel xti, and love it. from word of mouth, you really can't go wrong with either one, and should probably go with which you like the feel of better and also the interface.
Orange&White
1,000+ Posts
80 = 40*2
When you make the move into the world of DSLR's you're no longer dealing with disposable technology like you are with point and shoots. What I mean by that is with point and shoots you buy the coolest one on the market at the time based on cost/features/needs and when it's lifecycle is done you move on to the next one. In the world of DSLR's you are buying into an entire ecosystem...which is why just 2 vendors dominate the market....the R&D costs of developing a mature DSLR ecosystem are enormous.
Your biggest investment with a DSLR will be in lenses. So it's wise to scope out what lenses your preferred vendor offers and where the strengths and weaknesses in their lineup occur. It's also important to take a look at their respective flash systems as this is another critical aspect of DSLR photography.
The first thing I would recommend if you're not already locked into one or the other ecosystem is go to a camera store and hold the various bodies you're considering....also pick-up models above and below those to get a feel for the differences. You will be amazed how much you will learn just by doing this simple exercise. There's a tendancy when shopping/researching to get caught up in features analysis/comparison but with DSLR's ergonomics are in reality probably even more important as any DSLR has all the key features you really need to take great pictures.
I went through the same exercise last year and ended up going with the D80...since then I've added 4 more lenses (and there are another 3 I REALLY want), a flash system, and a 2nd body (a D40) for my wife. So, I've spent a good deal more on lenses than I did on the camera body itself. That's what I mean by saying you're buying into an ecosystem...the camera is just one piece of the ecosystem and in all honesty not even the most important one...that honor belongs to the lens.
Here's my take on a simple breakdown of the strengths of the two major SLR ecosystems...Canon and Nikon:
Body ergonomics: advantage Nikon
Consumer DSLR Lens Lineup (under $1000): advantage Nikon
Pro Lens Lineup ($1500-$8000): advantage Canon
Flash Systems: advantage Nikon
Picture Quality: slight advantage Canon although lens quality is ultimately the biggest determining factor here.
I went with Nikon based on their advantages with ergonomics (the D80 just felt right and is layed out beautifully), consumer lens options (I don't really have any intention of spending more than $1000 for a lens...this is a hobby for me not a business), and flash systems (Nikon has a great flash system and great lineup of flashes). That worked for me and made the decision somewhat of a no brainer after I sorted through it.
I started the process as a Canon lover...every previous camera I have ever owned has been a Canon (all point and shoots) and they've been great. Canon rules the roost when it comes to point and shoots. However, Nikon currently appears to have the upper hand in the DSLR market from entry level up to sub-pro level. Canon meanwhile owns the pro level market hands down....especially the high end pro level due to their incredible professional series lenses. That's why your pro photographer friends would steer you to Canon...it's what they use.
If you have the budget to spend $1500-$8000 on pro level lenses then you should look hard at going with Canon. If you're looking for a lot of quality options in consumers lenses tailored for DSLR's in the $125-$700 range then Nikon will serve you well.
At the end of the day they are both great cameras/systems and you will be able take a bunch of great pictures with either one....there is no wrong choice but there are definitely long term implications to the decision you make in terms of which ecosystem you lock yourself into.
Good luck
Your biggest investment with a DSLR will be in lenses. So it's wise to scope out what lenses your preferred vendor offers and where the strengths and weaknesses in their lineup occur. It's also important to take a look at their respective flash systems as this is another critical aspect of DSLR photography.
The first thing I would recommend if you're not already locked into one or the other ecosystem is go to a camera store and hold the various bodies you're considering....also pick-up models above and below those to get a feel for the differences. You will be amazed how much you will learn just by doing this simple exercise. There's a tendancy when shopping/researching to get caught up in features analysis/comparison but with DSLR's ergonomics are in reality probably even more important as any DSLR has all the key features you really need to take great pictures.
I went through the same exercise last year and ended up going with the D80...since then I've added 4 more lenses (and there are another 3 I REALLY want), a flash system, and a 2nd body (a D40) for my wife. So, I've spent a good deal more on lenses than I did on the camera body itself. That's what I mean by saying you're buying into an ecosystem...the camera is just one piece of the ecosystem and in all honesty not even the most important one...that honor belongs to the lens.
Here's my take on a simple breakdown of the strengths of the two major SLR ecosystems...Canon and Nikon:
Body ergonomics: advantage Nikon
Consumer DSLR Lens Lineup (under $1000): advantage Nikon
Pro Lens Lineup ($1500-$8000): advantage Canon
Flash Systems: advantage Nikon
Picture Quality: slight advantage Canon although lens quality is ultimately the biggest determining factor here.
I went with Nikon based on their advantages with ergonomics (the D80 just felt right and is layed out beautifully), consumer lens options (I don't really have any intention of spending more than $1000 for a lens...this is a hobby for me not a business), and flash systems (Nikon has a great flash system and great lineup of flashes). That worked for me and made the decision somewhat of a no brainer after I sorted through it.
I started the process as a Canon lover...every previous camera I have ever owned has been a Canon (all point and shoots) and they've been great. Canon rules the roost when it comes to point and shoots. However, Nikon currently appears to have the upper hand in the DSLR market from entry level up to sub-pro level. Canon meanwhile owns the pro level market hands down....especially the high end pro level due to their incredible professional series lenses. That's why your pro photographer friends would steer you to Canon...it's what they use.
If you have the budget to spend $1500-$8000 on pro level lenses then you should look hard at going with Canon. If you're looking for a lot of quality options in consumers lenses tailored for DSLR's in the $125-$700 range then Nikon will serve you well.
At the end of the day they are both great cameras/systems and you will be able take a bunch of great pictures with either one....there is no wrong choice but there are definitely long term implications to the decision you make in terms of which ecosystem you lock yourself into.
Good luck
Thanks for the (serious) replies.
I was comparing the Rebel XTI to the 40d yesterday. I really liked how the 40d felt in hand. It just fit better.
Right now, I don't have any particular attachment to either as I'm currently a Sony P&S user. My purchase is probably a year off.
One of the things I most want is a legacy camera. I want to be using it 5 or 10 years from now if possible. Obviously, with technology changing, there will be bigger and better on the market but I'd really like to buy a camera that I can grow with but not outgrow.
My shooting habits are focused in a couple areas:
People - Mostly my kids
Landscape/Nature/Architecture
I don't yet have the time that I'd like to focus on setting up for great shots. I'm much more of a spur of the moment shooter. With that in mind, I might not even be looking at either of these cameras in a year. The next generation that comes out might have something that intrigues me more. Right?
I was comparing the Rebel XTI to the 40d yesterday. I really liked how the 40d felt in hand. It just fit better.
Right now, I don't have any particular attachment to either as I'm currently a Sony P&S user. My purchase is probably a year off.
One of the things I most want is a legacy camera. I want to be using it 5 or 10 years from now if possible. Obviously, with technology changing, there will be bigger and better on the market but I'd really like to buy a camera that I can grow with but not outgrow.
My shooting habits are focused in a couple areas:
People - Mostly my kids
Landscape/Nature/Architecture
I don't yet have the time that I'd like to focus on setting up for great shots. I'm much more of a spur of the moment shooter. With that in mind, I might not even be looking at either of these cameras in a year. The next generation that comes out might have something that intrigues me more. Right?
Mac, based on your requirements you should take a hard look at the Nikon D80 & D300 along with the Canon 40D. Nikon is also rumored to be introducing the replacement for the D40x in the next week or two...probably called the D60....the D80 replacement will probably come next August and be called the D90. It sounds like your timelines aren't too tight so waiting till September might give you your best option...the D90. It should have most of what the D300 offers with all the great Nikon consumer and prosumer lens and flash options insuring you're good to go.
The Bandit
100+ Posts
also take a look at the new sony alpha series of dslr's. they just introduced a higher level model but the a100 is still a very nice camera. probably in between a digital rebel and a 40d in the canon line. the nice benefit of the sony is that it has image stabilization in the body, so you get the benefit of image stabilization in any lens, including cheaper third party lenses. i have two L-series IS canon lenses and you pay dearly for image stabilization on each lens separately. although the IS on the canon lenses is supposedly a bit better than sony's built-in IS.
MulletsGalore
25+ Posts
Thanks BagHorn-
I screwed up on my data..the 1st shot was with a D200 and the 80-200, f2.8 zoom. 2nd was the D300 and the 300mm, f2.8 prime, not the 70-300 VR.
Got my shots mixed up.
I screwed up on my data..the 1st shot was with a D200 and the 80-200, f2.8 zoom. 2nd was the D300 and the 300mm, f2.8 prime, not the 70-300 VR.
Got my shots mixed up.
Fried JJ Pickles
1,000+ Posts
Mullet, awesome lenses!
...and for Macanudo's benefit those are both very desirable high end lenses worthy of being in any professional photographers bag...the 300mm 2.8 retails for almost $5k these days.
I can't emphasize enough that while your entry into DSLR's will start with purchasing a camera body your focus will quickly and forever shift to lens lust. So, my best recommendation is to get out ahead of the curve and start learning about lenses and decide which lens or lenses you would most like to have to get going then pick your body based on that.
I started my search locked in on the Canon Rebel XTi but what steered me to Nikon was the fact that Canon didn't have many really great entry level type lenses (under $500) designed for DSLR's. You will learn that DSLR's don't use a "full frame" sensor (only the pro series cameras use full frame sensors) and lenses designed for film cameras (still the bulk of what is on the market) have less than optimal focal ranges for digital SLR's with their 1.5x cropping factor.
So, while a 28mm-105mm lens would be a nice everyday lens for a full frame SLR you would want a 18mm-70mm lens to cover the same ground on a DSLR with a DX sized sensor. The net of this point is that Nikon offers a lot more quality DX lenses designed specifically for digital SLR's than Canon. We could start an entire and lengthy thread on the discussion of lenses.
...and for Macanudo's benefit those are both very desirable high end lenses worthy of being in any professional photographers bag...the 300mm 2.8 retails for almost $5k these days.
I can't emphasize enough that while your entry into DSLR's will start with purchasing a camera body your focus will quickly and forever shift to lens lust. So, my best recommendation is to get out ahead of the curve and start learning about lenses and decide which lens or lenses you would most like to have to get going then pick your body based on that.
I started my search locked in on the Canon Rebel XTi but what steered me to Nikon was the fact that Canon didn't have many really great entry level type lenses (under $500) designed for DSLR's. You will learn that DSLR's don't use a "full frame" sensor (only the pro series cameras use full frame sensors) and lenses designed for film cameras (still the bulk of what is on the market) have less than optimal focal ranges for digital SLR's with their 1.5x cropping factor.
So, while a 28mm-105mm lens would be a nice everyday lens for a full frame SLR you would want a 18mm-70mm lens to cover the same ground on a DSLR with a DX sized sensor. The net of this point is that Nikon offers a lot more quality DX lenses designed specifically for digital SLR's than Canon. We could start an entire and lengthy thread on the discussion of lenses.
Summerof79
2,500+ Posts
probably can't go wrong with either one, though recently I think Cannon has the edge on Nikon but it's unlikely to last (imo) given history. I personally woudl go Nikon because maybe one day I will inherit my dad's Compact 500 nikon lens.... They are getting close in price to what I want though!
Canon announced the update to the Rebel XTi yesterday...in Europe they don't use the Rebel designation the previous generation (XTi) was known as the 400D. The new model is called the 450D. It looks like the entry level and prosumer level DSLR options are heating up as Nikon is expected to announce their rebuttal....the D60 in the next few days as well.
Here's the press release on the new Canon 450D....
Amstelveen, The Netherlands, 24 January 2008: Canon today launches its latest D-SLR, the EOS 450D. Featuring a 12.2 Megapixel CMOS sensor, EOS Integrated Cleaning System, 3.0” LCD with Live View mode and a new 9-point AF system, the model presents consumers with an unprecedented level of image quality and versatility at this end of the market.
The EOS 450D employs features already proven in Canon’s professional EOS-1 series cameras, including the DIGIC III image processor and a redesigned menu system that enables features such as direct control of Speedlite flash units from the camera LCD. A choice of 13 custom functions allows the photographer to customise the camera to their shooting style.
“The EOS 450D bears the fruits of more than 20 years of ongoing investment into EOS,” said Mogens Jensen, Head of Canon Consumer Imaging, Europe. “This camera continues Canon’s policy of taking technologies proven in the professional arena and putting them within reach of a wider market of amateur photographers.”
The EOS 450D features:
12.2 Megapixel CMOS sensor
Canon’s EOS Integrated Cleaning System
3.5 frames per second
3.0” LCD with Live View shooting
9-point wide-area AF system with f/2.8 cross-type centre point
Picture Style image processing parameters
DIGIC III image processor
Digital Photo Professional RAW processing software1
Compact and Lightweight body
Fully compatible with all Canon EF and EF-S lenses and EX-series Speedlites
The EOS quality advantage
With all key components developed and manufactured in-house, EOS offers photographers a unique quality advantage. The EOS 450D’s specially designed 12.2 Megapixel sensor employs Canon’s high-sensitivity, low-noise CMOS technology to produce richly detailed images with minimal grain. The DIGIC III processor ensures superior image rendering and rapid response times, with an almost instant 0.1 start up. Image data is processed at 14 bits for Delivering a burst rate of 3.5 frames per second, the DIGIC III processor works with the image buffer to handle up to 53 JPEGs (6 in RAW) without interruption.
Built for better photos
The EOS 450D is designed to make photography a fluid experience for photographers of all levels and experience. Housed in a compact body that weighs less than 475 grams, the camera features an improved grip design that provides a natural, ergonomic fit with the user’s hands. A large, bright viewfinder makes image composition clearer and more comfortable. The menu system inherited from professional EOS cameras uses a simplified tab structure that does away with scrolling. It includes a user-defined My Menu tab for instant access to frequently used settings.
Several custom functions are available to optimise the quality of photos captured in a range of situations. Highlight Tone Priority boosts the dynamic range at the highlight end, providing better tonal detail from wedding dresses, cloudy skies and other bright objects. The new Auto Lighting Optimiser corrects brightness and contrast during image processing, while improving skin tones in portraits by ensuring correct exposure for faces. Photographers can also enable additional noise reduction for shots captured at high ISO speeds.
Live View
Available for the first time on a Canon consumer D-SLR, Live View mode makes it easier to shoot from awkward angles, such as ground-level macro shots or when shooting from a tripod. The image from the Live View mode is displayed as a smooth, 30fps video feed on the 3.0” LCD, which is 50% brighter than the screen of the EOS 400D. A grid line display and live histogram can be selected to help with shot composition and exposure. While focusing, the photographer can zoom in on specific details with up to 10x magnification of the image displayed on the LCD screen. Two types of auto focus are available: Quick AF flips the camera mirror momentarily to engage the AF sensor; Live AF uses the image contrast data to focus - a method familiar to anyone upgrading from a compact digital camera.
For studio environments, remote Live View lets the photographer compose, adjust settings and capture the shot from a PC using the supplied EOS utility software.
Other improvements
The EOS 450D complements its headline features with a host of smaller improvements that enhance the photographic experience. The viewfinder now displays all key exposure information including ISO speed. The addition of spot metering (4% of viewfinder) allows for greater control over exposure in tricky lighting conditions. PictBridge functionality has been expanded so that photographers can correct horizons and add picture effects before printing. A new high capacity battery extends shooting time on a single charge to a maximum of 500 shots.
Software
The EOS 450D is supplied with a comprehensive software suite that provides everything the photograph needs to manage and process images. This includes Digital Photo Professional (DPP), a powerful RAW converter that provides complete RAW image processing control. DPP also integrates with camera features such as Dust Delete Data and Picture Styles. The supplied Picture Style Editor software can be used to create custom Picture Styles for fine control over colour display. The camera also comes with EOS Utility, Image/Zoom Browser and Photostitch.
Here's the press release on the new Canon 450D....
Amstelveen, The Netherlands, 24 January 2008: Canon today launches its latest D-SLR, the EOS 450D. Featuring a 12.2 Megapixel CMOS sensor, EOS Integrated Cleaning System, 3.0” LCD with Live View mode and a new 9-point AF system, the model presents consumers with an unprecedented level of image quality and versatility at this end of the market.
The EOS 450D employs features already proven in Canon’s professional EOS-1 series cameras, including the DIGIC III image processor and a redesigned menu system that enables features such as direct control of Speedlite flash units from the camera LCD. A choice of 13 custom functions allows the photographer to customise the camera to their shooting style.
“The EOS 450D bears the fruits of more than 20 years of ongoing investment into EOS,” said Mogens Jensen, Head of Canon Consumer Imaging, Europe. “This camera continues Canon’s policy of taking technologies proven in the professional arena and putting them within reach of a wider market of amateur photographers.”
The EOS 450D features:
12.2 Megapixel CMOS sensor
Canon’s EOS Integrated Cleaning System
3.5 frames per second
3.0” LCD with Live View shooting
9-point wide-area AF system with f/2.8 cross-type centre point
Picture Style image processing parameters
DIGIC III image processor
Digital Photo Professional RAW processing software1
Compact and Lightweight body
Fully compatible with all Canon EF and EF-S lenses and EX-series Speedlites
The EOS quality advantage
With all key components developed and manufactured in-house, EOS offers photographers a unique quality advantage. The EOS 450D’s specially designed 12.2 Megapixel sensor employs Canon’s high-sensitivity, low-noise CMOS technology to produce richly detailed images with minimal grain. The DIGIC III processor ensures superior image rendering and rapid response times, with an almost instant 0.1 start up. Image data is processed at 14 bits for Delivering a burst rate of 3.5 frames per second, the DIGIC III processor works with the image buffer to handle up to 53 JPEGs (6 in RAW) without interruption.
Built for better photos
The EOS 450D is designed to make photography a fluid experience for photographers of all levels and experience. Housed in a compact body that weighs less than 475 grams, the camera features an improved grip design that provides a natural, ergonomic fit with the user’s hands. A large, bright viewfinder makes image composition clearer and more comfortable. The menu system inherited from professional EOS cameras uses a simplified tab structure that does away with scrolling. It includes a user-defined My Menu tab for instant access to frequently used settings.
Several custom functions are available to optimise the quality of photos captured in a range of situations. Highlight Tone Priority boosts the dynamic range at the highlight end, providing better tonal detail from wedding dresses, cloudy skies and other bright objects. The new Auto Lighting Optimiser corrects brightness and contrast during image processing, while improving skin tones in portraits by ensuring correct exposure for faces. Photographers can also enable additional noise reduction for shots captured at high ISO speeds.
Live View
Available for the first time on a Canon consumer D-SLR, Live View mode makes it easier to shoot from awkward angles, such as ground-level macro shots or when shooting from a tripod. The image from the Live View mode is displayed as a smooth, 30fps video feed on the 3.0” LCD, which is 50% brighter than the screen of the EOS 400D. A grid line display and live histogram can be selected to help with shot composition and exposure. While focusing, the photographer can zoom in on specific details with up to 10x magnification of the image displayed on the LCD screen. Two types of auto focus are available: Quick AF flips the camera mirror momentarily to engage the AF sensor; Live AF uses the image contrast data to focus - a method familiar to anyone upgrading from a compact digital camera.
For studio environments, remote Live View lets the photographer compose, adjust settings and capture the shot from a PC using the supplied EOS utility software.
Other improvements
The EOS 450D complements its headline features with a host of smaller improvements that enhance the photographic experience. The viewfinder now displays all key exposure information including ISO speed. The addition of spot metering (4% of viewfinder) allows for greater control over exposure in tricky lighting conditions. PictBridge functionality has been expanded so that photographers can correct horizons and add picture effects before printing. A new high capacity battery extends shooting time on a single charge to a maximum of 500 shots.
Software
The EOS 450D is supplied with a comprehensive software suite that provides everything the photograph needs to manage and process images. This includes Digital Photo Professional (DPP), a powerful RAW converter that provides complete RAW image processing control. DPP also integrates with camera features such as Dust Delete Data and Picture Styles. The supplied Picture Style Editor software can be used to create custom Picture Styles for fine control over colour display. The camera also comes with EOS Utility, Image/Zoom Browser and Photostitch.
S197HQQKEM
500+ Posts
Pentax K20D please, I still have my Asahi Pentax ME and several lenses, had to have it overhalued a couple of years ago and it still works 30 somthing years old, those lenses will work with the K20D so that would be my choice, 14.6 effective megapixels too. Pentax just announced it. Gotta save my money.
I kind of feel like BagHorn knows his stuff.I was looking to buy a DSLR in late 2004 and every professional photographer I talked to (including my photo journalism teacher) said "Go With Canon". After reading BagHorn, I understand why.
My problem was that I went with the 20D over the (drastically reduced) 10D because I wanted a camera I would be happy with for a long time... and then I used the kit lens for about 2.5 years because that was all I could afford. (Well that and a cheapy Canon zoom.)
QUESTION-
Every time I switch lenses it seems I get a bit of fuzz or a hair or something on my mirror in my camera. Then I have to (A) Notice it on photos and then (B) Go to a camera store to have them take care of the problem.
(1) How can I prevent this from happening? (It doesn't matter how careful I am.)
(2) How can I clean this off without permanently damaging my camera?
thanks
My problem was that I went with the 20D over the (drastically reduced) 10D because I wanted a camera I would be happy with for a long time... and then I used the kit lens for about 2.5 years because that was all I could afford. (Well that and a cheapy Canon zoom.)
QUESTION-
Every time I switch lenses it seems I get a bit of fuzz or a hair or something on my mirror in my camera. Then I have to (A) Notice it on photos and then (B) Go to a camera store to have them take care of the problem.
(1) How can I prevent this from happening? (It doesn't matter how careful I am.)
(2) How can I clean this off without permanently damaging my camera?
thanks
it's not too hard to clean off your sensor. i bought a kit from copperhill and i clean the sensor on my 30d fairly often. although you're saying that you have dust/hair on your mirror but also saying you're getting it in your images. what you see through your viewfinder isn't recorded onto the sensor because you're looking at a mirror that covers the sensor until you're ready to shoot. that's why the viewfinder goes black when you open the shutter. in any case, check out that kit, i have it and i've cleaned my sensor a number of times with no issues.
Copperhill Sensor Cleaning
[edit] oh, i didn't realize that was you man. you can come over to my place and i'll clean the sensor of your camera for you.
Copperhill Sensor Cleaning
[edit] oh, i didn't realize that was you man. you can come over to my place and i'll clean the sensor of your camera for you.
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