$Bill's Mike Sherman rank too high among BCS coaches ?

M

miller 58

250+ Posts
My personal opinions:

Some of the 66 bcs coaches rankings by a national publication are:

#1 Carroll

#4 Stoops

#7 Brown

#11 Leach

#20 Miles

#46 Sherman

#47 Willingham

#56 Weis

#63 Stoops, M

Based on his zero college head coaching experience,

his hiring 9 assistants who had recruited only 2 four star football players the last five years,

his last minute decommits/losses of mostly four stars ( 2 ends, 2 lb's, 2 cb's, and 1 s) for the Feb 08 recruiting class,

and his loss already of the Feb 09 recruiting class including each and every head to head battle with UT, lsu, ou and tulsa university,

$BILL"s Mike Sherman rank seems a bit too high to me?

miller58

Link: SportingNews.com for complete list
 
come on now, hold the rope

opps ---- that was the last guy
whiteflag.gif
 
My personal opinions:

blueag09, based on Shermans losing already both the 08 and 09 recruiting classes, especially all those last minute decommited four star defensive types that we certainly could have used this fall, I figure he owes us at least about two seasons of pay.

With the seniors/ juniors in this class that led us to a 9-3 record as sophs/fish and within one field goal against ou of playing in the Big 12 championship for a bcs bowl, the talent's there this year to win a championship.

The easy schedule is there.

If Sherman can't do the x's and o's and motivation to coach them there, then he's completely useless.

Sherman already proved he's out of his league in recruiting, so $Bill admits his mistake, fires them all, and then resigns all by Jan 7, 2009.

No excuses, all 12 teams in our conference lost an average of 17 seniors, so we're in great shape player wise. The 08 season is the coaching staff's alone to either succeed or utterly fail.

CowtownRed, I added in Leach at #11. No reason to leave him out, since Dykes and Leach have been regularily kicking our butt badly since RC's days back in 93 to the present!

miller58
 
I was just funnin' with you.

I think 11 is a bit of a stretch. To be in the top 15, you either need to have played in a conf. championship game or played in a BCS game.
 
It's rather difficult to recruit to a program that hasn't won any of the big games in more than a decade. Highly rated recruits seem to put an emphasis on a team's winning history when deciding who to play for. Read what a San Antonio Express-News article said about this:In reply to:
 
Then why did Fran out recruit Brown his first two years Blueag? When coaches first come in they need to be able to get good players based on their name and how everyone thinks the program is going to improve.
 
My personal oinions:

blueag09, you've fallen for some silly Ag blog untrue whinny excuses;

Whinny excuse #1 - we have to win first to recruit-100% false. Charlie Weis and Nick Saban among others prove my point;

Weis has a much worse W/L record than A&M the last few years, but has brought in top classes every year.

Saban out of the nfl first year last year had 9 assistants that brought in three 5* signees and nineteen 4* signees. 'Bama has a similar W/L record to A&M the last five years.

The only difference is Weis and Saban both were smart enough to hire 9 assistants with experience signing four and five star football players, similar budgets at both places for the 9 assistants as at A&M.

With an AD with zero experience hiring a college head football coach and staff and a zero experienced college head football coach, they both just didn't know what they were doing. Do you realize how stupid it is, as well as how hard it is, to hire 9 experienced assistant coaches that have only recruited a total of 2 four star football players in the last 5 years. Thats just very hard to do!

A&M actually committed 13 four star players last year and was on its way to a top 5 class with 15 or more four and five star players, until as one national blog put it, "Fran was stabbed in the back, and other coaches took note, and will think twice before considering A&M in the future." Negative recruiting took over, Sherman's staff sucked at holding them, and A&M's top players bailed.


Whinny excuse #2 from the Ag blogs. We lost a lot of players; truth is every Big 12 team lost an average of 17 players, ,many of them starters; it happens every year. We have seasoned veterans at all OL & DL positions and adequate backups. Every school recruits to cover their graduating seniors every year for previous four years, so this is just normal.
Dont buy into that whinnie BS!


We have the talent now to be champs in 08 and will be, but only if the coaching doesn't suck as badly as it recruits!

Try to get out and talk to D1 coaches not associated directly with A&M. Read blogs not directly bias or associated with A&M. You'll have a much better and truthful picture!


miller58
 
miller,

I agree with you 100% on the recruiting point, as I've been beating that drum myself in regards to Tech recruiting.

One other example you might use is Tim Brewster. Brings in a top 25 class to a program that was abysmal last year. He was largely responsible to some of Mack's best classes.

You don't have to be a powerhouse to recruit well. You do have to hire good recruiters.
 
Miller58 - your on target. Forget all the other elements or factors. It all starts and ends with recruiting - recruiting the best talent. Byrne failed IMO when he picked a HC without a history or real proven track record of being able to recruit or sell 18 yr. old kids to come play college football for X university. Add to that Sherman picked asst. coaches that also had limited or no success in recruiting kids to play college football.

Your best hope is that A&M has some first season success in 2008 while the coaching staff gains vauable knowledge, experience and traction recruiting in 2009. IMO Sherman also needs to do a blietzkrieg on the Texas HS coaches if he wants to build meaningful relationships that encourage those coaches to point talented players toward a&m.
 
I think it's far too early to weigh in on Sherman as a D1 coach, or to be fair, even as a recruiter.

He's definitely not a "big name hire" by any stretch of the imagination--certainly not what many outside observers were anticipating given the massive failure that Dennis represented--but then again he likely represents the top end of what aggy could realistically pull in given its performance of late and its location within the “Bermuda Triangle of recruiting”, flanked by three recent MNC winners in UT, the Bayou Bengals, and the terra-clepts. I do think the “NFL credentials” card has been wayyyy too overplayed by the maroon faithful; reading some of the posts on aggy boards, one gets the impression Brett Farve was a third-string scrub before Sherman rode in on his white horse to save Brett from NFL obscurity.

At the end of the day, Sherman fits squarely into the category of a “Byrne hire”, and Byrne’s massive jealousy of all things Texas-- nascent while he was still at UNL and now fully manifest as the aggy AD--is counterbalanced only by his equally massive ego. As a result, aggy can expect to continue seeing strokes of genius (Pat Henry in track, Billy Clyde in basketball) interspersed with “things-that-make-you-go-hmmm” hires (Turgeon as Billy Clyde’s sucessor, Childress in baseball---and Sherman in football) where it’s clear that his assertion of authority over both the “big cigar” dollars (and the unwashed masses of internet forum posters) is just as important a criterion as selecting the most qualified, eligible candidate.
 
My personal opinions:

I don't know what I was thinking when I first posted this thread about $Bill and Mike Sherman on the recruiting forum! I'm glad it was moved. $Bill and Mike Sherman, and Recruiting is an oxymoron!

Any fool can see that $Bill has no experience in recruiting college head football coaches, or he wouldn't have screwed this hire up so badly. This was definitely not about recruiting, or even proper oversite by an AD on recruiting.

Any fool can also plainly see that Mike Sherman hiring 9 assistant coaches with almost zero experience in signing top talent is not about recruiting.

Anyone that witnessed the diaster of all the last minute decommts/loses in the Feb 08 class, definitely knows that's not about recruiting.

In addition, anybody that has witnessed Sherman and his nine recruiting drawfs losing each and every head to head battle with UT, lsu, ou and even tulsa university for this years class, knows this is definitely not about recruiting.

Mentioning anything related to football recruiting, and $Bill and Mike Sherman in the same breath is just so wrong! So the forum change is welcomed!

miller58
 
My personal opinions:

NO !

The big atvantage A&M will have this year is the Fran recruited sophs and freshmen, that led A&M to a 9 win season two years ago and within one field goal in the ou game of playing in the Big 12 championship for a BCS bowl, are now seniors and juniors.

And they are backed up by solid classes of Fran recruited sophs and fish.

A&M's big strength this year is the experienced talented players from top to bottom, fish to seniors, that are expected to win a championship.

The last of the RC recruited players finally finished in 07, so that five year handicap is finally gone.

The only thing that could keep A&M from winning this year is Sherman's schemes.

Remember A&M has won more games the last two years than at any time since before this decade with these young players.

The bar is high and the players are all back.

Every team in the Big 12 lost an average of 17 seniors this year, mostly starters, so A&M's time has come.

They won it with the same scheme that Fran coached and ran at 'Bama, his last season winning 10 games in the tough SEC.

If, as a national blog stated "Fran hadn't been back stabbed", and we were running the same schemes, a championship would be in the bag.

That coaching staff also had committed 13 four star players and had another 4 on the hook, before the new staff couldn't hold them and decommits left us with only 7 four star football players.

Sherman inherited a Mike Holgren coached Green Bay team that had gone deep in the playoffs with
an All World Quarterback and led them down to the mediocre in a few short years, and was fired.

The big big question is will Sherman's schemes cause A&M talented and experienced players to lose their championship this year. I just don't know?

Another big concern is 77-0. RC recruited sophs, juniors and seniors and the same RC coached juniors and seniors led A&M to 77-0.

Now Sherman has already lost two classes with gross decommits and almost 100% head to head recruiting losses.

A third class with RC like numbers, not more than a half dozen 4*'s and lots of bottom tier 2*/3*'s, and Sherman recruits will be seniors, juniors, and sophs in 2011, and lead us to another 77-0, just like RC's recruits did!

This is not a pretty picture, but its best not to distort the truth by lies, omissions, and blog censorship!

miller58
 
one of the reasons sherman was hired is that he "understands" A&M. What is that supposed to mean? Embrace the tradition of mediocrity?
 
My personal opinions:

blueag09, exactly!


-----------------------------
The one and only thing that the tradition of mediocre means at A&M is that "WE WILL RECRUIT AN AVERAGE OF NO MORE THAN SIX [FOUR AND FIVE STAR FOOTBALL PLAYERS] EACH YEAR, WHILE UT, LSU, AND OU RECRUIT FOURTEEN OR MORE FOUR AND FIVE STAR FOOTBALL PLAYERS EACH YEAR!"

"IN SOME CASES IT MIGHT MEAN THAT THE A&M ATHLETIC DEPARMENT, AG BLOGS, COACHES, FORMER COACHES AND PLAYERS, AND THEIR SURROGATES, AND SOME FORMER STUDENTS WILL NEVER PUBLICALLY DISCUSS, ALLOW DISCUSSION OR EVEN ADMIT THIS TO BE TRUE!"
-----------------------------

Some might even constru this to be a sort of cover your rear or revise the history of the past, informal policy?


This tradition was started around the middle of the last decade by RC and Tim; Fran foolhardly broke this tradition in 2007 by actually committing 13 four and five star athletes, was promptly stabbed in the back and fired for it.

Then Mike and Tim were hired in November to continue the tradition of medicore started in the last decade, and promptly got results by reducing our four and five star signees, to a more traditional seven, through the mechanism of not even holding the class together by the multiple last minute decommit!

Mike and Tim then promptly cemented the tradition for the current class by losing each and every head to head battle this year with UT, lsu, ou, and tulsa university. They have committed 37 top talented including but not limited to both our first and second choice quarterbacks and running backs, linebackers and defensive backs and other players so far.

You see to continue this tradition, it is very important that TU, lsu, and ou be allowed to get their 14+ four and five star's first because in Texas there are always a half a dozen leftover bottom tier 4*'s along with plenty of 2*/3*'s to fill A&M's needs.

A very important part of this tradition is that by A&M not competing recruiting wise; TU, lsu and ou get 2 1/2 to 3 times as many talented signees as A&M each year.

Even this is threatened though because everybody is signing more 4*/5*'s than A&M the last few years: nebraska has signed more the last four years, okie state has signed more the last three years and colorado signed more last year.
-----------------------------

blueag09, check out the numbers from RC and Tim last decade forward to the present and you'll better understand RC signees leading us to 77-0 as seniors, juniors and sophs with the seniors and juniors of 77-0 even being coached up to the first couple of years by RC.

It's just another one of A&M's great traditions?
I personally think it sucks, but so far it looks to me like it will continue as long as $Bill, Mike . RC and their surrogates are on A&M's campus?


miller58
 
Byrne has made approximately two big name hires (in thier respective sports):

1. Pat Henry
2. Gary Blair

Byrne's MO seems to be more of hiring these Childress/Turgeon/Gillispie type coaches that he plucks out of nowhere so when they suceed it makes him look like more of a genius.

The question with Sherman is how much he was involved in the hire; thier is some possibility that because A&M is so much in the red right now due to major capital projects (initiated by Byrne) that Byrne was "encouraged" to hire Sherman.

What Sherman did to impress me was go out and hire the assistants he did. If he can recruit then we will see what happens in the long run.
 
My personal opinions:

RayDog, to answer your question briefly:

The fish and sophs that led A&M to 9-3 were faster, often bigger and more athletic than the upper classmen on the team. Watching the games in person, these were the guys makng the plays, winning the games, and getting lots of playing time. The upperclassmen were often listed as starters only as a courtsey when it was the fish and sophs gettingthe critical playing time.

So its these experienced well coached juniors and seniors, backed up by solid fish and soph classes that will be champs this year. Only SHERMAN'S SCHEMES CAN Screw ths up. Next year and beyond A&M's team will be deluted by the decommits/ loses of the Feb 08 class and the unmitticated disaster ( NO FOUR AND FIVE STAR FOOTBALL PLAYERS) that Sherman is puting together for this year.

Thanks,

miller58

A&M rebuilding and winning in 2006, and champs in 2008.
 
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