Big Schools vs. Small Schools

T

thewalruswasjohn

< 25 Posts
"Many scouts will tell you that it really does matter where a player goes to school. Sure, not in the long run, but a player coming out of the Big 12 or SEC has a much better shot at getting used to the speed of the NFL than someone coming out of the Big Sky conference. Still, other scouts will tell you that line of thinking is hogwash. Players are players."

fromThe Link

What do you guys think? Does a player coming out of UT have a better shot at making it in the league than someone from Middle Tennessee State, all other things being equal?

I like the "players are players" idea myself.
 
I look at it like most jobs, the place where you get your degree from can be very helpful in getting your first job, after that its based off performance. I think going to Texas, USC, Michigan, OSU, Miami, UF helps players get drafted, whether or not they stay in the league is another matter.
 
C - Bret Favre
D - Terry Bradshaw
E - Tony Romo
F - Rayfield Wright (from back in the day)
G - Terrell Owens

I can go on with this...talent is talent, whether you come from Texas and USC, or Texas A&M Kingsville. Maybe playing at a name school gets a player initial recognition, but talent and attitude determine who makes it in the league.
 
Exhibit A for the counterargument (disclaimer - I got bored and only got through the BCS schools starting with M. Schools starting with N-Z will have to be Exhibit B):

Blue Adams
Keith Adams
Flozell Adams
Gaines Adams
Joseph Addai
Victor Adeyanju
David Akers
Shaun Alexander
Eric Alexander
Lorenzo Alexander
Colin Allred
Morten Andersen
Deon Anderson
Willie Anderson
Mark Anderson
Charlie Anderson
Willie Andrews
Stacy Andrews
Brandon Archer
Adam Archuleta
Devin Aromashodu
J.J. Arrington
Tom Ashworth
B.J. Askew
Nnamdi Asomugha
Baraka Atkins
Jason Avant
David Baas
Jonathan Babineaux
Jeff Backus
Champ Bailey
Boss Bailey
Jason Baker
Chris Baker
Dallas Baker
Alan Ball
Reggie Ball
Justin Bannan
Tully Banta-Cain
Marion Barber
Alex Barron
Eric Barton
Tra Battle
Danny Baugher
Gary Baxter
Arliss Beach
Jon Beason
Josh Beekman
Monty Beisel
Mike Bell
Kendrell Bell
Ronald Bellamy
Charles Bennett
Mitch Berger
Brock Berlin
Ladell Betts
Taye Biddle
David Binn
Desmond Bishop
Will Blackmon
Dwayne Blakley
Jeremy Bloom
Greg Blue
Anquan Boldin
Kyle Boller
Conrad Bolston
Lorenzo Booker
Michael Boulware
Dwayne Bowe
John Bowie
Shane Boyd
McKinley Boykin
Michael Bozeman
Tom Brady
Alan Branch
Deion Branch
Tyler Brayton
Bennie Brazell
Steve Breaston
Lance Briggs
Wesley Britt
Keith Brooking
Derrick Brooks
C.J. Brooks
Ronnie Brown
Chris Brown
Ricky Brown
Milford Brown
Reggie Brown
Alex Brown
Kareem Brown
Tedy Bruschi
Copeland Bryan
Fernando Bryant
Matt Bryant
Phillip Buchanon
Tim Bulman
Brodrick Bunkley
Prescott Burgess
Derrick Burgess
Plaxico Burress
Michael Bush
James Butler
Jerametrius Butler
Rashad Butler
Reche Caldwell
Jason Campbell
Mark Campbell
Vernon Carey
Cooper Carlisle
Andrew Carnahan
Tyrone Carter
Jerome Carter
Tim Carter
Kevin Carter
Andre Carter
Ran Carthon
Rock Cartwright
Tim Castille
Brent Celek
Scott Chandler
Antonio Chatman
Marcello Church
Vinny Ciurciu
Kendrick Clancy
Ryan Clark
Dallas Clark
Danny Clark
Jeremy Clark
Jeromey Clary
Michael Clayton
Thomas Clayton
Nic Clemons
Chris Clemons
DeAndra Cobb
Joe Cohen
Trent Cole
Colin Cole
Laveranues Coles
Todd Collins
Marc Colombo
Jon Condo
Sean Considine
Jameel Cook
Kyle Cook
Jarrod Cooper
Josh Cooper
George Cooper
Jemalle Cornelius
Curome Cox
Zack Crockett
Antonio Cromartie
Mason Crosby
Channing Crowder
Brodie Croyle
Quinton Culberson
Markus Curry
Travis Daniels
P.J. Daniels
Phillip Daniels
Brian Daniels
Karlos Dansby
Kenneth Darby
Najeh Davenport
Chris Davis
Carey Davis
Tanard Davis
Andra Davis
Buster Davis
Thomas Davis
Craig Davis
Vernon Davis
Chauncey Davis
Jason Davis
Brian Dawkins
Jared DeVries
David Diehl
Kris Dielman
Zach Diles
Tim Dobbins
Kevin Dockery
Darnell Dockett
Ken Dorsey
Nat Dorsey
T.J. Duckett
Tim Duckworth
Kevin Dudley
Jeff Dugan
Elvis Dumervil
Warrick Dunn
Tim Dwight
Nick Eason
Adimchinobe Echemandu
Tyler Ecker
Andrew Economos
Braylon Edwards
Mike Elgin
Atiyyah Ellison
Greg Eslinger
Mike Espy
Heath Evans
Troy Evans
Demetric Evans
Jonathan Evans
Willie Evans
Kevin Everett
Earl Everett
Jason Fabini
Demarcus Faggins
Alan Faneca
Kevin Faulk
Christian Fauria
Jeff Feagles
Jay Feely
Mark Fenton
Nick Ferguson
Jason Fergusonr>Brandon Fields
Ronald Fields
Yamon Figurs
Nick Folk
Larry Foote
George Foster
Renardo Foster
Ryan Fowler
Melvin Fowler
Keyaron Fox
Domonique Foxworth
Bubba Franks
Andre Frazier
Lennie Friedman
Dustin Fry
Jamaal Fudge
Scott Fujita
C.J. Gaddis
Jabar Gaffney
Justin Gage
Jared Gaither
Robert Gallery
Wayne Gandy
Antonio Garay
Randall Gay
William Gay
Robert Geathers
Tearrius George
Ronnie Ghent
Fred Gibson
Tony Gilbert
Matt Giordano
Randall Godfrey
Mike Goff
Ian Gold
Kedric Golston
Tony Gonzalez
Jonathan Goodwin
Charles Gordon
Frank Gore
Earnest Graham
Daniel Graham
Martin Gramatica
Charles Grant
Chris Gray
Lee Gray
Trent Green
Howard Green
Jarvis Green
Skyler Green
David Greene
Chad Greenway
Brian Griese
Cornelius Griffin
Justin Griffith
Otis Grigsby
Rex Grossman
Ben Grubbs
Marquise Gunn
Andre Gurode
D.J. Hackett
Derek Hagan
Mario Haggan
Tyjuan Hagler
Leon Hall
James Hall
Aaron Halterman
Gibran Hamdan
Ben Hamilton
Derrick Hamilton
Anthony Hargrove
Roman Harper
Nick Harris
Walt Harris
Antoine Harris
David Harris
Steven Harris
Orien Harris
Nate Harris
Arnold Harrison
Justin Hartwig
Tim Hasselbeck
Matt Hasselbeck
Artrell Hawkins
Kelvin Hayden
Verron Haynes
Reggie Hayward
Todd Heap
Will Heller
Devery Henderson
Eric Henderson
E.J. Henderson
Mario Henderson
Chris Henry
Will Herring
David Herron
Devin Hester
Stephon Heyer
Lamarcus Hicks
Shaun Hill
Reynaldo Hill
Renaldo Hill
Tye Hill
Leroy Hill
Ike Hilliard
Ellis Hobbs
Kevin Hobbs
Victor Hobson
Nathan Hodel
Abdul Hodge
Montrae Holland
Sam Hollenbach
David Holloway
Daven Holly
Glenn Holt
Roderick Hood
Chris Hope
Chris Hovan
Darren Howard
Dante Hughes
Kevin Huntley
Von Hutchins
Steve Hutchinson
David Irons
Kenny Irons
Ben Ishola
Brian Iwuh
Chidi Iwuoma
Chad Jackson
Dexter Jackson
Marlin Jackson
Steven Jackson
D'Qwell Jackson
Darrell Jackson
T.J. Jackson
Xzavie Jackson
Taylor Jacobs
Edgerrin James
Bradie James
Sebastian Janikowski
Jon Jansen
Max Jean-Gilles
Justin Jenkins
Kris Jenkins
Mike Jennings
Kelly Jennings
Tim Jennings
Jonas Jennings
Brian Jennings
Leon Joe
Brad Johnson
Rudi Johnson
Todd Johnson
Chris Johnson
Michael Johnson
Brandon Johnson
Marcus Johnson
Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Jarret Johnson
Charles Johnson
Antonio Johnson
Rory Johnson
Travis Johnson
Brian Johnson
Sean Jones
Greg Jones
Herana-Daze Jones
Donnie Jones
Dhani Jones
Walter Jones
Adrian Jones
Levi Jones
Nick Jones
C.J. Jones
Mike Jones
Bennie Joppru
LaMont Jordan
William Joseph
Cato June
Nate Kaeding
Aaron Kampman
Mike Karney
John Kasay
Kevin Kasper
Jevon Kearse
Ethan Kelley
Reggie Kelly
Tommy Kelly
Pete Kendall
Eddie Kennison
William Kershaw
Kenny King
Mathias Kiwanuka
Joe Klopfenstein
Dan Koppen
Kyle Kosier
Brian Kozlowski
Jason Kyle
L.P. LaDouceur
Dawan Landry
LaRon Landry
Billy Latsko
Ty Law
Ben Leber
Nick Leckey
Donald Lee
Travis Leffew
Michael Lehan
Matt Lentz
Michael M. Lewis
Ray Lewis
Greg Lewis
Damione Lewis
Ryan Lilja
Nate Livings
Chris Liwienski
Rhys Lloyd
Brandon Lloyd
Khari Long
Ryan Longwell
Jared Lorenzen
Ken Lucas
Marshawn Lynch
Sam Madison
Anthony Madison
Josh Mallard
Chris Manderino
Patrick Mannelly
Eli Manning
Marquand Manuel
Brandon Manumaleuna
Laurence Maroney
Lemar Marshall
James Marten
Grant Mason
Derrick Mason
Tim Massaquoi
Evan Mathis
Michael Matthews
Matt Mauck
Kevin Mawae
Chris McAlister
Deuce McAllister
Trumaine McBride
Matt McChesney
Le'Ron McClain
Darrell McClover
Todd McClure
Bobby McCray
Marlon McCree
Robert McCune
Shaun McDonald
Ray McDonald
Jerome McDougle
Bryant McFadden
Anthony McFarland
Willis McGahee
Jon McGraw
Rocky McIntosh
Damion McIntosh
Alvin McKinley
Brandon McKinney
Bryant McKinnie
Pete McMahon
Randy McMichael
David McMillan
Brandon Mebane
Brandon Meriweather
Shawne Merriman
Terrence Metcalf
Edmond Miles
Justin Miller
Fred Miller
Zach Miller
Martrez Milner
Jeremy Mincey
Travis Minor
DeMario Minter
Jayme Mitchell
Shirdonya Mitchell
Tim Mixon
Anthony Montgomery
Brandon Moore
Eric Moore
Aaron Moorehead
Kindal Moorehead
Dan Morgan
Chris Morris
Christian Morton
Quentin Moses
C.J. Mosley
Sinorice Moss
Santana Moss
Jarvis Moss
Eric Moulds
Muhsin Muhammad
Edwin Mulitalo
Matt Murphy
Chris Myers
Michael Myers
Chris Naeole
Tom Nalen
Reggie Nelson
Jeremy Newberry
Terence Newman
Rudy Niswanger
Moran Norris
Dennis Northcutt
Jerious Norwood
Nick Novak
Ryan O'Callaghan
Antwan Odom
Adewale Ogunleye
Amobi Okoye
Paul Oliver
Melvin Oliver
Greg Olsen
Deltha O'Neal
Dan Orlovsky
Shantee Orr
Buck Ortega
Richard Owens
Glenn Pakulak
Tony Palmer
Tony Pape
Roscoe Parrish
Marcus Paschal
Tony Pashos
Logan Payne
Antwan Peek
Domata Peko
Charlie Peprah
Chris Perry
Stephen Peterman
Scott Peters
Mike Peterson
Julian Peterson
Marvin Philip
Jermaine Phillips
Antonio Pierce
Mickey Pimentel
Chase Pittman
Adam Podlesh
David Pollack
Derrick Pope
Leonard Pope
Clinton Portis
Eric Powell
Duke Preston
Ronnie Prude
Trevor Pryce
Kurt Quarterman
Neil Rackers
Antwaan Randle-El
Keiwan Ratliff
Dave Rayner
Chris Redman
Ed Reed
Josh Reed
James Reed
Kerry Reed
Willie Reid
Darrell Reid
Chris Reis
Tutan Reyes
Kerry Rhodes
Brandon Rideau
Rueben Riley
Dewayne Robertson
Erik Robertson
Ramzee Robinson
DelJuan Robinson
Derreck Robinson
Courtney Roby
Aaron Rodgers
Dennis Roland
Antrel Rolle
Samari Rolle
Mark Roman
Brett Romberg
Sage Rosenfels
Oliver Ross
Patrick Ross
Matt Roth
Robert Royal
Orpheus Roye
Grey Ruegamer
Jon Runyan
JaMarcus Russell
Gary Russell
Clifton Ryan
Sean Ryan
DeMeco Ryans
Chris Samuels
Bob Sanders
Lewis Sanders
Josh Scobey
Guss Scott
Chad Scott
Ian Scott
Daniel Sepulveda
Mark Setterstrom
Richard Seymour
Josh Shaw
Eric Shelton
Trent Shelton
Lito Sheppard
Jeremy Shockey
D.J. Shockley
Brandon Siler
Jason Simmons
Mark Simoneau
Ernie Sims
Matt Sinclair
Justin Smiley
Brad Smith
Kolby Smith
Musa Smith
Eric Smith
Terrelle Smith
Brian Smith
Daryl Smith
Marvel Smith
Robaire Smith
Marcus Smith
Derek M. Smith
Tyson Smith
Justin Smith
Fred Smoot
Chris Snee
Justin Snow
Isaac Sowells
Matt Spaeth
Marcus Spears
Chris Spencer
Greg Spires
Jason Spitz
Darren Sproles
Micheal Spurlock
Brian St. Pierre
Tre' Stallings
Montavious Stanley
Drew Stanton
Max Starks
Randy Starks
Eric Steinbach
Syndric Steptoe
Todd Steussie
David Stewart
Jonathan Stinchcomb
Byron Storer
Donald Stricklandr>Mack Strong
Marcus Stroud
Chansi Stuckey
Terrell Suggs
Quinn Sypniewski
Nu'u Tafisi
Joe Tafoya
Thomas Tapeh
Travis Taylor
Chris Taylor
Fred Taylor
Tony Taylor
Vinny Testaverde
Pierre Thomas
Anthony Thomas
William Thomas
Randy Thomas
Marcus Thomas
Santonio Thomas
Orrin Thompson
Craphonso Thorpe
Odell Thurman
Travares Tillman
Lawrence Timmons
LaBrandon Toefield
Burl Toler
Amani Toomer
Deshea Townsend
Matt Trannon
Ben Troupe
Jeremy Trueblood
Jerame Tuman
Ben Utecht
Cameron Vaughn
Jimmy Verdon
Danny Verdun-Wheeler
Lawrence Vickers
Kevin Vickerson
Jonathan Vilma
Keydrick Vincent
Justin Vincent
Bobby Wade
Todd Wade
Fred Wakefield
Langston Walker
Javon Walker
Aaron Walker
Seneca Wallace
Al Wallace
Andrew Walter
Hines Ward
Danny Ware
Gerard Warren
Leon Washington
Ted Washington
Tavares Washington
Anthony Waters
Pat Watkins
Benjamin Watson
Gabe Watson
Reggie Wayne
Steven Weatherford
Corey Webster
Nate Webster
Todd Weiner
Chris Weinke
John Welbourn
Greg White
Dewayne White
Charlie Whitehurst
Andrew Whitworth
Casey Wiegmann
Sam Wilder
Vince Wilfork
Ben Wilkerson
Gerris Wilkinson
Shaud Williams
Jamar Williams
D.J. Williams
Maurice Williams
Leon Williams
Kyle Williams
Madieu Williams
Brandon Williams
Patrick Willis
Ray Willis
Eugene Wilson
Josh Wilson
C.J. Wilson
Mark Wilson
Kamerion Wimbley
Kellen Winslow
Eric Winston
Will Witherspoon
Floyd Womack
LaMarr Woodley
Pierre Woods
Charles Woodson
Damien Woody
Abraham Wright
Mike Wright
Claude Wroten
Mansfield Wrotto
Ellis Wyms
DeShawn Wynn
Marshal Yanda
Dominique Zeigler

The point is that a handful of players doesn't prove an argument. The real answer is that a player coming out of UT has a better shot than someone from Middle Tennessee State because all other things aren't equal. But if you're looking at an individual player then clearly his alma mater doesn't matter too much.
 
Huck - Im not sure you are arguing the same point. Everyone knows that the majority of NFL players comes from the big schools, thats a fact. And it doesnt take a lot of investigation to figure out why. The best athletes in high school go to those schools. The smaller schools fill up with inferior athletes who couldn't get scholly's to the bigger guys.

I think the question raised by the article and the OP is whether or not players that blossom at those small schools and have all the NFL measurables (speed size, etc) are necessarily disadvantaged in terms of future success in the NFL. I tend to fall in line with the "players are players" line of thought. The disparity in numbers that you site is a direct result that very few "players" ever start out at the minor schools to begin with.
 
Head coaches in the NFL would happily take a one-eyed purple alien from Mars Tech if he had the measureables and a nasty attitude.
 
I still think going to a major conference school helps get you into the league. Here's a hypothetical, you have two qbs, both are 6-4, 215 pounds. Over their last collegiate careers both passed for over 3,000 yards with a roughly 3:1 TD to Int ration. Both of their teams made a higher tier bowl game or won at least one game in the 1-AA playoffs. Who would you take. The measurables are the same, the team winning percentage is the about the same, and the statistics are the same. Going off that alone, I would draft the major college player because I know they're doing the same thing against higher caliber players. That doesn't mean that the 1-AA guy is not worthy of playing in the NFL, its just that I think the major program player is more ready through the competition and scrutiny he faces by being at a major level.
 
Where was Romo drafted? How long did he sit on the bench? Would he even gotten a chance to play if Bledsoe hadn't been injured? He would have probably been cut if Quincy Carter hadn't been caught doing drugs and released.
Now if he'd put up the numbers he did at, say, even Illinois instead of Eastern Illinois, don't you think he'd been a top 10 draft pick and labeled the future of whichever franchise drafted him?

Edit: Quarterbacks drafted the same year Romo wasn't:
1st Round
Carson Palmer - USC
Byron Leftwich - Marshall
Kyle Boller - California
Rex Grossman - Florida

3rd
Dave Ragone - Louisville
Chris Simms - Texas

4th
Seneca Wallace - Iowa State

5th
Brian St.Pierre - Boston College

6th
Drew Henson - Michgan
Brooks Bollinger - Wisconsin
Kliff Kingsbury - Texas Tech

7th
Gibrian Hamdan - Indiana
Ken Dorsey - Miami (FL)
 
As a GM, my strategy would be to stay away from any small-school player. Why take a chance, when they're are plenty of other players who you have seen on film against better competition.

I wouldn't make that argument with the leap from high school to college, since you have more room for error. In the pros, you cannot waste draft picks on unknowns, unless you already have quality depth.
 
Ad,

My argument isn't that small school players aren't as able to compete in the NFL, it's players from small schools aren't as likely to be given the chance. Romo being a prime example - would have been cut if Carter hadn't screwed up. Still played behind Testaverde and Bledsoe. Obviously, wasn't Parcell's first choice

Edit: Oh, BTW, do you know why Moss ended up at Marshall? He started off at FSU...
In reply to:
Click to expand...
 
Most players from small schools are not very good. That is why they are playing for a small school instead of a big school. However, that does not mean that great player cannot come out of a small school. Players are players. Most players choose to go to a big school. Some players get overlooked by the big schools and must go to small schools, but they're still players.
 
It seems to me most of the "small school" players that make it big in the NFL were either late bloomers or had grade issues out of h.s.

They didn't draw much attention in high school b/c of size, speed or ability to qualify. Some guys just don't hit that growth spurt until very late in puberty.

Then when they hit the NFL folks are saying "Why didn't Enormous State offer this guy?" Well, b/c Enormous State needs guys ready to play b/c their coaches are paid millions to win now, not develop future talent for the NFL.
 
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