Big-Box HDTV Retailers - Misinformation (Long)

HornGrad'01

250+ Posts
Maybe its the uberconsumer and/or techie in me that leads me to over-research and over-analyze even the most nominal, trivial consumer electronic purchases, but it absolutely drives me batty when I witness the complete lack of misinformation, fudgery and outright lies spewed by (unnamed) big-box retailers when Joe HDTV asks his friendly retail sales associate for "help" finding a television solution.

“You need 1080p, its better and 720p is outdated (when responding to a question about a 27” LCD)…Plasmas are yesterday’s technology and they suffer burn-in, not to mention the fact that they don’t last long – the image fades quickly (If I still have a plasma TV in 20 years, I’ll worry about its half-life then)…DLP’s break all the time (referring to the need to replace a bulb after burnout)….LCD’s are better for sports-watching and gaming and have the widest viewing angles (actually heard this over the weekend and it made me chuckle so loud the sales associate and customer both looked at me like I was crazy)...You need to get Monster HDMI cables, no point in spending all this money on an HDTV and getting cheap cables (riiiiiiiight)…” And don’t even get me started with the over-hyped and most often abused and misstated 120Hz technology.

While I am admittedly NOT the foremost authority on HDTV technology, I know more than many and certainly enough to be dangerous and hold my own in a conversation. Its been a hobby of mine, one of unending pleasure, to research every new television before it hits the market and to stay at the technology forefront of the ever-changing HDTV landscape.

So it disheartens me when I watch Joe HDTV, a soon-to-be-retired baby boomer, hellbent on improving his in-home movie watching experience, but with little-to-no idea as to how to do so, walk into a big-box retailer and put his full faith and trust in HourlyWageGuy (sometimes know as HourlyWageAndCommissionGuy) to give him the right advice and outfit him with the HDTV that best suits his needs. Many of us have seen it, some of us have witnessed it countless times, but nearly all of us have either seen this happen to Joe HDTV or ARE Joe HDTV, so most of us can relate on some level.

Truth be told, if you are reading this thread or have read other threads about HDTV on this board (or similar boards) and/or have posted questions of your own, chances are you are not Joe HDTV, and kudos to you for doing what most folks should do – researching a bit before you make a multi-thousand dollar purchase and not trusting HWG and HWACG to make the right decision for you.

But, if you insist on going in blind and unprepared, don’t bother looking for the folks wearing a blue or red shirt that says “HDTV Misinformation Specialist.” Just pick whichever TV looks the best to you – because your chances are as good or better that you’ll be happy with your purchase than they would be asking the big-box retailer sales associates for help. Otherwise, you might get lucky and someone like me might overhear your conversation with HWG and HWACG and rescue you (which, like me, most of the posters on this board that are knowledgeable about HDTV are prone to do – even if you don’t ask for it).

And for the record (and I mean this earnestly), I am excluding from said retailers in this discussion the likes of Hlaustin and other tech savvy, respectable professionals that go above-and-beyond to help consumers (their valued customers) find the most appropriate solution for their HDTV needs. Rather, I commend them for offering the very SERVICE that has been bastardized by big-box retailers and only wish more cared the way they do.

Sorry for the rant….not even sure I had a point (other than to vent and perhaps give props to folks like Hlaustin and other Hornfans members like me that are equally passionate about both the technology and helping “non-techies” sort through the muck).

Rant off and happy HDTV hunting.
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I consider it great sport to visit electronics retailers searching for a high tech item and then asking the holier-than-thou sales associates to explain all the buzz words many of them like to spew. It's a rather entertaining pastime.
 
Say, I heard that Grammy award winning & Platinum selling recording artist Herbie Hancock likes the Bose AcoustiMass system...

Got any info on that?

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I like how they spend a lot of time pushing you toward the higher-priced/'name brand' item due to 'quality', and then upon purchase push the service plan/extended warranty on you...99.99% of new TVs with a problem are going to be evident within a couple of weeks of purchase...
 
Wow, that was good and very much true. Thank you for the very kind words. I go out about once a week and shop other retailers to check on pricing and what they are saying and man I have done the same thing so many times of stopping and laughing my *** off at what some of these people say. I have gone so far as wait for the clerk to walk away and give them some advice and even sometimes give them a business card. As always if I can help any of you out please pm me and I can see what I can do.
 
HornGrad'01, welcome to Capitalism!

I worked for one of those big box retail outfits in the warehouse and the managers always wondered why I didn't want to move into sales. I couldn't stand talking people into stuff that they didn't need. I'd often help people (when I was on the floor) by asking them what they wanted to use the TV for, and then gave them two or three options at differing levels to choose from.

I'd like to ask a sales person sometime, "If this is the only television that I should get, why do you even bother selling all this other 'junk'?" Seriously, if it's on the shelf, then they at least think it's worth selling.

I for one go the cheap route most of the time. I find the TV that has the minimum amount of features I need and buy it. I always recommend at least one of these types of televisions (or other electronics) to people when giving them advice.
 
JC Denton's link brings this up @ the bottom of the page (let's see how the formatting from teh page works here on HF):
Tags Customers Associate with This Product


snake oil (463)
ripoff (408)
waste of money (384)
throwing your money away (352) unconscionable (317)
stupid (281)
pure garbage (245)
immoral (244)
cheat (233)
denon (62)
harry potter (58)

OK, so what's up with having Mr. Potter on there??

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ok horngrad and hlaustin, i'm sure you've answered many times... what kind of tv should i get? i want a big hdtv that is over 50 inches. would rather have a flat panel and i don't want to spend over 2500 bucks. any suggestions?
 
The 850 is a great plasma, but many folks will find the 800 series equally enjoyable (same great picture quality, with less "tweakability" and a couple bells and whistles many don't need) for less money.

I'm a fan of both and Cnet ranks the 800 as the best plasma available - even over, gasp, the Pioneer king.

And depending on your needs (plasma may not suit you), I'd definitely take a look at the 52" Samsung 650 (and new 630 with a matte screen). Great LCD panel with all the current tech.
 
Hey HornGrad..I have been doing a lot of research recently (or trying to) as I plan to buy a new TV in the next two weeks. I have been looking mainly at 46" LCD's. A couple of questions I have found it very hard to find information on online.

1) which is more important for preventing motion blur, a quicker response rate or 120 hz vs 60 hz, or do they both help in different ways? I haven't been looking for any of the top of the line models, just the most I can get for around 1500 or under.

2) should Plasmas be considered? The great picture makes them tempting, I have the typical concerns. a) glare b) burn in, but this seems to have been corrected in the new technology.

I have more or less narrowed down my search to between these two models (I wont be buying it from best buy, but it;s a good source for links to the models):

1) The Link

a&b has it for 1397. 5ms response rate and respectable contrast ratio

2) The Link

I have a 32 inch sony lcd which has been solid, so it;s more of a safe bet,,,

Which would you choose from these two? Is there anything else I should be considering?

Thanks in advance!!!
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SBGLonghorn - first, kudos on thinking your purchase through, and you're justified in being a bit confused by marketing gimmickery (think I just made up a word).

First, many folks do not even notice the benefit of 120Hz refresh rates in normal viewing circumstances (especially when watching 60fps material, like most broadcasted material) - and be sure you appreciate that 120Hz is not the same as Samsung's "AMP", Sony's "Motion Flow" and other branded motion blur-reducing software which are designed to work in cadence with 120Hz tech (I won't go into that level of detail, but there are numerous sources that address the difference between 120Hz and the software programs mentioned above). If you are not plagued by judder from 3:2 pulldown of 24fps material (like DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.) or find broadcast material to be "smooth" enough, chances are 120Hz isn't going to offer much of an advantage to you. For some, film-induced judder is abhorrent, and 120Hz allows for 5:5 interpolation, helping eliminate judder.

Second, response rates (pixel latency) and refresh rates (image - think whole screen, not pixel) are related and do both work to reduce image blurring from fast moving scenes on an LCD. Having one faster than the other is not necessarily going to improve performance (especially if the image is ready to refresh, but the pixel is lagging). For reference, a 120Hz refresh rate would require 8ms pixel speed.

As for plasma, "burn-in" is a non-factor anymore. "Image retention" can still occur, but is usually abolished with the simple turning off and on of a TV or watching non-stationary images for a couple of minutes. Glare is still a factor as plasmas still use glass panels, but many have adopted anti-glare coatings (which can reduce contrast ratio - an image quality tradeoff unfortunately) which do a reasonably good job in most applications. Also worth noting that many new LCD's are incorporating glossy panels as well, with similar glare issues, in an effort to improve contrast ratios.

I like both the TV's you are considering, with a small bias to the Sammy as I feel they have better contrast ratio and color accuracy and above average black levels, contributing to a slightly better overall image quality than the Sony. (but you need to surmise that for yourself). The black levels on the 4100 are pretty impressive. One thing I can't stand about the Sony though, (and I own one) is the wildly fluctuating backlight in dark-to-light scenarios. If you've ever seen it, you know what I mean. All said, I think both TV's are attractive options - and you can't really go wrong with either.

You might also consider the Toshiba line. They offer compelling value-to-performance ratios as well.

For those on the hunt for a Sony or Sammy LCD, these comparison charts might prove helpful in determining differences in the respective model lines (care of AVSForum).

Sony LCD 2008 Model Comparison

Samsung LCD 2008 Model Comparison
 
you are the man horngrad!! I really appreciate all the time you put into putting together that info. By the way, I love that message board you linked me to. I am going to go to A&B tomorrow, and am sure I'll have a few follow up questions when I get back. Anyway, thanks again
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Alright HornGrad, I have returned from A&B and have a few more questions for you. Pretty much, after returning I am leaning towards the W series SonyThe Link They have it for $1999. The only difference between this and the V model is that the W has 120 HZ and comes with a price tag of about $300 more. The question I have relates to how TV shops set up these TV's. I am skeptical that the V model was being showcased at the best settings, and wonder how much of this is them adjusting the settings to lean buyers towards the more expensive models. I mean the W series looked amazing as expected, but the V confused me. I think I will go to Best Buy to check out this model in a different setting, but do you think the W is really that much better? After seeing the two this morning, I am definitely leaning towards it.

Second question, what do you think about buying a TV from an online relailer? There is a place called Abe's of Maine a friend of mine bought a TV from which she has been extremely happy with. They have the W series for $150 less than the $1999 price, plus no taxes and fress shipping which makes it $300 less overall. I feel worried about buying from a place like this, what do you think?

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thanks again for all your help and sorry for the confusion. I meant to say that the W looked by far superior than anything else. I want to give the "V" model another chance as I have read so many good things about it as well. And thanks for the heads up about amazon....I have heard they are a good bet so I will have to check them out!
 
I''m a Mitsubishi DLP fan and here's what I got...$250 less than Best Buy plus another $165 savings with no sales tax.
The Link

Hook'em!!!
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