Big 12: 10 or 12 Teams?

X

XOVER

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The question of whether the Big 12 should be comprised of 10 or 12 teams arose during halftime of the OSU-Texas game yesterday, when OSU's Hargis answered:In reply to:
 
It's no big deal to us, TGG. But apparently Sunday is a big deal to FOX/ESPN. Television apparently wants no complications whatsoever in scheduling within a conference context, especially in basketball and the playoff tournament. Check out the link.

You make some great points on the in-state / out-of-state business. So, if BYU is, in fact, not added, and if Louisville and West Virginia are added, I guess you'd prefer Cincinnati over Tulane?

I'd go Cincinnati over Tulane, if only to give Iowa State, Louisville and West Virginia another regional partner, which, hopefully, would promote stability. But then, if I had to choose in-state, I'd have chosen either Houston or Rice over TCU, in order to project a better City of Houston presence for recruiting purposes, especially now that A&M lives in the SEC. I also don't want to get started on TCU again.

I bet we go Tulane over Cincinnati, though, due to Tulane being AAU, and really, with these choices, is there that much of a substantive difference? I take it back, the Big Easy would be a pretty cool road trip, and it's a lot a closer than Cincinnati. Either one is okay with me at this point, given the schools reasonably available.

Let me fool around with some divisions:

North
Iowa State
Louisville
West Virginia
Kansas
Kansas State
BYU or Cincinnati (though not Tulane or Houston or SMU)

South
Texas
Texas Tech
Texas Christian
Baylor
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

BYU works a lot better in the South, but if they don't come, and if you go to 12, Cincinnati would work pretty well in the North, with WV as the football anchor school. WV draws in the high 50s, low 60s, just under Missouri numbers, although WV has no real television markets to speak of, unlike Missouri which does. WV and Missouri are by no means equal trades.

It's not clear how Tulane, SMU, or Houston fit in the above scenario since TCU fills up the South. Well, let's face it -- they don't fit. If you add Tulane, they're sort of eastern, maybe you make them live in the North "just because"?

Too bad Missouri's going -- that Northern configuration (less Cincinnati) would give them a real chance from year-to-year. I mean, Missouri would win that division 2 to 4 years each decade with Nebraska and Colorado gone. West Virginia would be the northern bully they would have to knock off.

Tell you what: If I were Baylor, Tech, or TCU, I might volunteer to go to the North just to get out from under the shadow of Texas and OU, and more easily promote a winning record. It wouldn't make sense regionally, but it would darn sure let them win a division every once in awhile.

Let's look at East/West divisions and see if that's more versatile:

East
Louisville
West Virginia
Texas Christian
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State

West
Iowa State
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
BYU or Tulane or Houston or SMU (though not Cincinnati)

In this theoretical East/West configuration, which is obviously contrived, you might fit a BYU, Tulane, Houston, or SMU into the fabric. Plus, both divisions get at least one State of Texas appearance each year, some years multiple appearances, which I guess all schools would look at as a plus.

If BYU is added, I'm thinking East/West is definitely the way to go. It might be the way to go without BYU, too, if only to spread out the Texas teams into both divisions.
 
North/South is traditional, true, but I wonder if it would be a better idea to spread out the Texas teams.
 
Curious as to the size of the Nielsen TV market in potential Big-12 cities? Here is what the size of the TV market is in the Big-12 cities/towns we have lost/might lose vs. the cities/towns we gain based upon the universitiy we select:

SIZE OF TV MARKETS LOST

Denver, CO (16th) 1,539,380 TV Homes
St. Louis, MO (21st) 1,249,450 TV Homes
Kansas City, MO (31st) 941,360 TV Homes
Columbia/Jefferson City, MO (137th) 178,810 TV Homes
Waco/Temple/Bryan, TX (89th) 339,570 TV Homes
Lincoln/Hastings, NE (105th) 281,590 TV Homes
Omaha, NE (76th) 410,350 TV Homes

Size of Markets Lost (Total): 4,940,510

SIZE OF TV MARKETS GAINED

Salt Lake City, UT (31st) 944,060 TV Homes
Louisville, KY (49th) 668,310 TV Homes
Charleston/Huntington, WV (63rd) 501,530 TV Homes
Cincinnati, OH (33rd) 918,670 TV Homes
Boise, ID (112th) 262,800 TV Homes

Size of Markets Gained (Total): 3,295,370
 
Santafe: Interesting numbers, if unfortunate numbers. There aren't any even trades going on in the rebuilding of the B2, are there? Great work putting that together, BTW. I might steal it later on.

TGG: Yup, exactly. You have this incisive way of boiling down my immense verbosity into a sentence or two. I did move the post to here.
 
I think we need to create a stable conference that is well positioned for the long-term with committed and loyal members. I don't think moving to another conference (Pac16 or B1G or SEC) is what Texas wants and I think we are right in wanting a stable conference that makes sense. IMO, we need to go to 14 (I think Rice and Tulane are MUST-ADDS) and also invite ND in non-Football.

NORTH-EAST

Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Louisville
Cincy
West Virginia
Tulane

SOUTH-WEST

Texas
Texas Tech
TCU
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Baylor
Rice
 
Santa and XOVER,

We are not losing Kansas City - K-City is dominated by Kansas and K-State grads. Mizzou is tied to STL with very little pull in K-City.
 
There are no winners in the realignment matrix. The only winner is the Realignment Borg.

D1.jpg
 
Keep in mind that too many Texas schools also might make it harder for Texas to leave the Big-12 if ever the day comes when Texas decides or feels the need to do so. Too many political anchors that migth force Texas (a la Baylor when the Big-12 was formed) to stay in the conference.

Frankly I would rather there be no other Texas school in any conference Texas is in.
 
WASHU: Now see, I read just the opposite. I read that most of KC is Mizzou, especially since the largest part of KC is in MO.

Hope I'm wrong, and you're right. It would be nice to hold onto one last metro area outside the State of Texas.

TXSNOS: I can see where BYU has a national following, but Boise State? I don't see Boise State having a national following, nor have I stumbled across any such information that I can recall. BS draws around 33-34, and I don't see a large school that could therefore sustain what might be characterized as a "national following." If you have a link, that would be good.
 
I know a lot of people who watch Boise because Boise is doing really well right now. People seem to like to watch the little guy succeed.
 
Missouri seems to be on the verge of leaving the Big 12 OR embarrassing itself yet again. It has no offer from the SEC but it is expected to ask for an invitation by Thursday.


Division 1
Texas
Oklahoma
Kansas
Baylor
Iowa State
Tulane

Division 2
Texas Tech
Oklahoma State
TCU
Kansas State
BYU
Rice

Each team has a permanent cross division rival they play every year. The permanent cross division rivals would be as follows:

Texas-Texas Tech
Oklahoma-Oklahoma State
Baylor-TCU
Kansas-Kansas State
Iowa State-BYU
Rice-Tulane

Each team would play a 9 game conference schedule. 5 games versus divisional opponents, 1 against the permanent cross division rival, and three of the other five that will be played through in order on a home and home basis.
Example Texas 2016 Schedule:
Notre Dame
UTEP
@CAL
BYE
Iowa State
Oklahoma (Dallas)
@Oklahoma State
Baylor
@Kansas
@TCU
Tulane
@Kansas State
Texas Tech

2017 Schedule
Maryland
Central Florida
@Southern California
BYE
@Iowa State
Oklahoma (Dallas)
Oklahoma State
@Baylor
Kansas
Rice
@Tulane
BYU
@Texas Tech
 
Good work Ivan. Rice and Tulane do nothing for strength on the field/court, but firmly establishes the Big 12 in aggy's and the SEC's back yards for recruiting (not so much for Texas and ou, but for the remainder of the conference).
 
BYU is probably the pick of the litter but they're a weird fit too because they're a geographic outlier way out there all by themselves. If the Big 12 media partners don't like them and if their negotiators are dicks then scrap the idea of bringing them in.

SMU and Houston bring nothing to the table. They have little fan bases in areas that already have Big 12 representation. Why add moochers when we can find contributors?

Rice and Tulane add AAU memberships and I like that but they really don't add much else. Tulane carries the New Orleans market about like Saint Ed's carries the Austin market.

So, what the hell? I'd just make it real simple and add Louisville, West Virginia and Cincinnati.

You can put them in with Iowa State, Kansas and Kansas State and call it the Bitchin' Basketball Division.

The remaining Big 12 teams can form the Freakin' Football Division.
 
Any way of dividing up divisions in a 12-team conference is going to be unfair because Texas and Oklahoma won't be in separate divisions.
 
If AAU membership is a big deal to Texas and the Big-12, we should definitely consider inviting Cincinnati and South Florida (these two universities are likely to gain AAU status in the very near future). South Florida would open a large TV market for us in Florida (Cincinnati would be smaller but promising). I don't understand why we are dragging our feet to make offers to universities with sizeable TV audiences or regional draws that are still available for membership (e.g., BYU, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati, and South Florida). If we wait much longer, we'll be stuck with "monsters" like Tulane and Rice.

Missouri is gone (you don’t remove the Big-12 logo on your football field if you intend to stay).
 
The TV markets for West Virginia include the following:

TV City Rank: 63 Charleston, WV/Huntington, WV (501,530 TV Homes)
TV City Rank: 156 Bluefield, WV/Beckley, WV/Oak Hill, WV (142,570 TV Homes)
TV City Rank: 159 Wheeling, WV/Steubenville, OH (133,700 TV Homes)
TV City Rank: 168 Clarksburg, WV/Weston, WV (110,050 TV Homes)
TV City Rank: 177 Watertown, WV (94,960 TV Homes)
TV City Rank: 194 Parkersburg, WV (64,060 TV Homes)

TOTAL WV TV HOMES: 1,046,870

And yes, I would agree the Montaineers carry the entire state of West Virginia.

For BYU and Utah, for most of the state, yes--except for what Utah and Utah State draw.
 
Yea, if we have to add mid-majors -- and we do -- then I would love to add South Florida. USF would be in my personal top 3, along with BYU and WV. BYU only if it dumped its religious baggage, however, and agreed to Tier 1 and 2 arrangements.

I really like the BE merger idea if Texas insists on staying in a wasteland conference, but the merger is never happening. I don't know if Texas is posturing to leave in the future, or if we intend to stay in the B2, such as it is, for the next 30 years.

I think we stay in the B2 as long as Powers and Dodds are running Texas, and that is a bummer thought. Still, even Powers and Dodds better get on the horse before the BE gets their grant of rights signed up.
 
The Big Ten and Pac-12 schools have granted their rights to the conferences, while Big 12 leaders, in an effort to bring stability to their league, recently agreed to grant their top-tier TV rights to the conference for at least six years.
 
DREAM WISH:

NORTH-EAST

Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Louisville
Notre Dame
West Virginia
BYU/Cincinatti

SOUTH-WEST

Texas
Texas Tech
TCU
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Baylor
Tulane

This would be amazing. Each division would have a GREAT destination city: Big Easy partying/food or Rocky Mountain skiing.

You'd have two relative powers in each division (WVU/ND, OU/UT) and at least 2 teams in each division that could play spoiler and win it from time to time (BYU/KSU, TCU/OSU)

Thoughts? (yes yes I know, Notre Dame aint coming....)
 
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