Antoinette Tuff demolishes La Pierre and gun nuts

Absolutely Roger35! We never need guns. If everybody would just talk potential killers out of their intentions. Hey, it worked in this case. Give the woman credit. However, it is the exception rather than the rule. It makes no sense to use this as an argument for gun control.
 
Cedar Park,

Are you for real? We don't have to look very far to see how well gun control works. Our neighbor to the South will lock you in prison for possessing a bullet much less a gun. When was the last time you heard of anyone being shot in Mexico? Any mass shootings or killings South of the Rio Grande? Please check the body count over the last decade and compare it to the "everyone should have a gun" nation of the United States.

After review, I strongly suspect that you'll be cutting up your NRA card, melting your Glock, and packing your family for their new digs in Juarez.
 
Speaking for myself, I have nothing but congratulations to offer and tremendous pride for her. I would think anyone would feel the same.In reply to:
 
I think it is a good counterpoint to asinine arguement 'The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." This courageous, loving woman did demonstrate that there are other answers.

But frankly, there are points where armed citiizens do protect peace and safety, not only for themselves, but for others. I think the ultimate best answer to violence is courage and love. But I expect defensive weapons in the hands of the well-intentioned is the interim, imperfect, solution that will hold sway in the United States for the forseeable future.
 
^^ There will always be people who have little regard for human life: Most of these "crazy" people also have little regard for their own life.
 
If this story is being spun as weight in favor of gun control, then I really fear for the intellect of American adults. Of course, it's wonderful that this lady was able to talk the crazy man out of blowing people away.

However, in what sense does that weigh in favor of gun control? She didn't use a Jedi mind trick that forced him to do what she said. The guy listened to what she had to say and voluntarily chose not to shoot people.

The key word is "voluntarily." In other words, he could have rejected what she had to say and fired anyway. What's the contingency plan when the crazy man isn't persuaded by the nice lady's comments? That's when it's nice to have an armed sane person.

If this story (and all these lunatic shooting stories) should be telling us anything, it is that we're too lax at institutionalizing crazy people.
 
Tuff is very lucky that she wasn't the first to be taken out in a shooting rampage by the man. She was brave, but the outcome was not a typical one.
 
I commend the woman for her heroic actions, but it's pretty obvious that this guy wasn't a true sociopath, like say the Columbine killers. Unlike those two, he had a conscience that could be reached and reasoned with.
 
I very much salute this brave person for their actions and am very happy that an alternative method worked this time and tragedy was avoided. Sadly, it would not work most of the time as history has proven.

I wish there was a magic crystal ball that would tell authorities whether their subject was able to be talked down or not. Or if muggers or robbers would approach people saying, "Give me your F'ing wallet and watch...unless you want to talk about it and talk me out of it". I would love to live in that world.
 
Therein lies the root of the difference between liberals/progressives and conservatives. It's idealism vs. realism. That's not name-calling, it's just a completely different state of mind. The idealists think everyone should make a good income, have free services, live in nice houses, put the guns down and hug it out...and that all sounds wonderful...but it's the stuff of fairy tales. Those of us in the "real" world understand human behavior: why there have been wars between people, tribes, nations for all of human history...why giving stuff to children or entire populations reduces the incentive to do for themselves...why speaking softly while carrying a big stick is more effective than just speaking softly.

I don't fault those for being idealistic but I do fault them for consciously ignoring the realities of human behavior and society to their own, and our, detriment.
 
Consider two, diametrically different situations:

(1) Tuff's peaceful efforts succeed and the gunman backs off. To Roger35, this is an argument for gun control.

(2) Tuff's peaceful efforts fail and the gunman opens fire, killing Tuff and dozens of others. To Roger35, this also would undoubtedly be an argument for gun control.

What a beautiful rhetorical fork this creates -- no matter how it plays out, it supports Roger35's position.
 
NJ,

I think those are very tough arguments to make.

First, having the gun doesn't preclude talking the guy down. One could have the firearm as a last resort but still try to diffuse the situation if it can reasonably be done.

Second, you're making the usual argument that gun control advocates make in all shooting situations and isn't unique to this one - that gun control actually keeps bad guys from getting guns. There isn't a whole lot of evidence of that being the case (at least not in the US), and if we wrongly presume it, the consequences are horrific (an armed bad guy who can basically shoot until he's out of ammo and a lot of defenseless innocent people).
 
Glad it worked out. But if I was trying to talk someone out of shooting up a school I'd rather be armed in case words failed

But as Al Capone said, " You can get more with a kind word and a gun, then you can with just a kind word."
 
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