Ali / Frazier 3 HBO Special

[doylehargraves]

This is one of the most fascinating and compelling things I've ever seen on television. Story is from Frazier's angle, and how bitter he was toward Ali for calling him an Uncle Tom, gorilla, stupid and multiple other things. All this after Frazier had defended Ali for avoiding the draft. Till this day, Frazier still hates Ali, and wishes he had fallen in the flames in Atlanta.

One of the many interesting side notes in this documentary: Ali actually spoke at a Klan meeting in the late 60's. The Nation of Islam and the Klan basically had (have) the same idea, just with a different color basis. Ali's recounting of his appearance at the rally is fascinating.

If you can get your hands on this HBO documentary, do so.

 

[badexcuse]

Saw it and now surprised so many people see Ali as a hero and Frazier as a villain.

 

[doylehargraves]

I didn't consider Ali to be any kind of hero before watching the show. I certainly don't after seeing it.

 

[History Horn]

I haven't seen the show, but they were mentioning it on the NFL network with Peter King.

Talked about what a great documentary it is. All of the hosts came away with the feeling that Ali has gotten kid glove treatment by the media as well as people carefully crafting his image as a hero instead of as the duechebag he really is.

They commented on how much Frazier had done to help Ali. He kept his name in the public's eye, defending his stance against the draft, and really went above and beyond to aid Ali when he was banished from boxing in the US. Then to have Ali treat Frazier in the manner he did was despicable.

I'm too young to remember Ali for anything but lighting the torch in Atlanta and to see the way he is a revered sports icon up there with Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, & other great athletes. I'll have to see the program and then make my own decision about Ali.

Hook 'em

 

[Scipio Tex]

First, incredible show.

I wrote about this some time ago.

I hope you like it. www.barkingcarnival.com/scipio-tex/false-icons-in-sport

 

[doylehargraves]

Scipio - that is a great read. You never fail in your written endeavors. Fabulous stuff.

 

[Horn69]

Saw the show - it was great and enlightening.

Saw the first Ali-Frazier fight on Closed Circuit at Dallas State Fair Music Hall. It was unbelievable. 15 Rounds of each guy just beating the **** out of each other and neither buckling. Ali was a hero. But Frazier was underrated.

Hook'em!!!

 

[doylehargraves]

Horn69 - why do you think Ali was a hero?

 

[Horn69]

Ali was the undefeated, Olympic Champion, good-looking young black man, funny, had good schtick with his poetry and antics in the ring, feared no one with his confidence off the chart. He was easy to love.

And then to top it off, his filing to be a Conscientious Objector placed on him on a pedestal, that as the Documentary stated so well, made him endeared by the left wing and students against the war. That happened to be my profile, having been a UT Student in the late 60's.

When you're young you're looking for heroes. As you get older you become more pragmatic and it becomes harder to find heroes.

Hope that helps.
The Link
The Link

Hook'em!!!

 

[HatDaddy]

I'm 34 and I didn't realize Ali was that much of a puppet.
Good to see some real info on the situation both in print and in the special.
I still think Frazier was the better fighter, but Ali was more flashy and marketable.
I will say Frazier needs to let it go and be the better man about it...All that hate is gonna burn you up son.

 

[washparkhorn]

Great documentary.

Ali to most is what we want him to be, not what he was.

Ali was the crude mix of sport, politics, theater and carnival that dominated the naive 60's and 70's. Ali spoke at rallies for the KKK and was the puppet of the Nation of Islam. I don't think he was a true believer; it got him out of Vietnam and made him the darling of the anti-war movement.

Frazier was a classic swarmer or in-fighter. Frazier's style of boxing was a problem for Ali (an out-fighter), so he had to get into his head. A swarmer can't get angry; he dives into dangerous territory when he mixes anger with close contact. Ali got in his head (still there today) with rhetoric that would have gotten him killed today. Howard Cosell and Ferdie Pacheco fanned the flames.

Disgusting chapter in boxing history but also one of its most mesmerizing moments.

 

[Horn69]

Not really sure why it was "disgusting." We're talking about the sport of U.S. Boxing? Unless you consider everything after Rocky Marciano until current time disgusting.

Ali brought a combination of speed, power and finesse that was highly entertaining to watch. And let's face it, the guy was "pretty" because he was almost never touched and hardly ever hit the floor. The Documentary shows the high level of Ali's boxing skills.

But, that's just my opinion.

Hook'em!!!

 

[washparkhorn]

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[eflow24]

Ali was a racist and a bigot and the fact that he is glorified after the way he treated Joe Frazier is a sad thing. Many people have lost their careers after saying things that were not 1/3 as bad as Ali was saying. they say it one time and their careers are over, Ali said things OVER & over for MONTHS. Those actions should have ended his career and instead it glorified him. Makes me sick.

I have no respect for anyone who defends him either.

 

[mandingo]

Ali's branding of Frazier as a "traitor to his race" and turning his race against him after Ali had gone and spoken in favor of segregation at a Klan rally, then joking around with Klan good ol' boys abound lynching...that is seriously disgusting.

Ali = trash.

 

[Tank]

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