'Abandoning Your Child' After A Public Argument

dognduckhorn

dognduckhorn

500+ Posts
Don't really know if this belongs here or the West Mall, but I saw this story and decided to run it by the folks here:

www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/crime/stories/DN-lieber_28met.ART.North.Edition1.4da8fe2.html

" A Fort Worth Star-Telegram columnist has been suspended pending the outcome of a criminal case in which he is accused of angrily abandoning his young son at a restaurant two weeks ago.

Authorities say Dave Lieber first argued with his 11-year-old son at a Watauga McDonald's, then stormed away and drove off as the boy ran after him and tried to get inside the car."

"According to police records, Mr. Lieber drove away from the parking lot while his son was attempting to open an apparently locked passenger door.

"The act of backing the vehicle caused the child to bounce against the side of the vehicle while it was in motion," the affidavit said. "The child chased after the vehicle through the parking lot as it exited and drove away."

Watauga Police Chief Rande Benjamin said Mr. Lieber told them he drove away because he needed to cool off. He returned minutes later to retrieve his son, the chief said. When Mr. Lieber returned to the restaurant on Denton Highway, officers were interviewing the boy. "

Now, I am intrigued with the article because it sounds like something I might be tempted to do with an older teenager, but it does seem both a bit harsh as far as parenting, and yet it sounds like an overreaction by the police.

What do folks think of this situation?
 
I tend to think the police didn't overreact. You don't abandon an 11-year-old kid in a public place like that.

Like you said, I could see doing that with an older teenager maybe, but not a young kid.

There's also the fact that he could have seriously injured the kid with the car while he was pulling away. Just wrong.
 
That's ****** up. Any adult that would allow an 11 year old to get the best of them like that shows that the adult is actually less mature than the kid. And if the adult almost ran over the kid in the process, then hell yes the cops should get involved.
 
We can question the parenting, maturity, etc. of the parties all day long.

The problem is that this was turned into a LEGAL matter. Which is ludicrous.

Take out the fact that the REASON for the aciton was a fight and a temper tantrum. Leaving an 11 year old child at a McDonald's, during daylight hours, in a safe neighborhood. . . . that isn't a crime. That's pretty damned ordinary.

By the time my kids are 10-11 years old, I fully expect them to be riding their bikes all over our neighborhood (I was). I fully expect them to go to the neighborhood 7-11 and get a slushie, and sit on the curb drinking it (like I did). That's not abandonment or endangerment. That's life.

This guy had a ****** and immature parenting moment. But I have, too. I've yelled at my kids when I shouldn't have. I have hurt their feelings when I shouldn't have. I have even stormed out of the room, frustrated to the breaking point. They aren't 11 yet, but I can even, in the extreme, see doing something SOMEWHAT similar to what this guy did (I sure hope that I don't, but I also admit that I am a flawed human).

And if I leave my 11 ur old daughter or son at the Whataburger on Anderson, just around the corner from my house, for WHATEVER reason -- everyone with a lick of sense knows that I haven't abandoned or endangered them.

It is assinine that this became a legal question. The cops should be embarrassed, and if the DA takes it, the DA should REALLY be embarrassed.
 
As a father I do not agree with how he handled the situation.

However, we don't need the police getting involved with parenting when it doesn't involve abuse. In this situation, I don't think the kid was abused or endangered.
 
This isn't a case of, "Oh, gosh, honey, I forgot that I need brussels sprouts from the grocery store. Stay here and finish your burger and fries, and I'll run to the store and be back in just a few minutes to get you."

This was a father who was upset at his kid, got angrily in his car, locked the kid out, bumped the kid with the car as he pulled out, then was chased in the parking lot by the kid as he drove away.

Not the same thing.

I think the cops were completely justified in getting involved, and I think the man should have to undergo anger management.
 
I agree that is not a normal way to handle a bad situation. You can't straighten your kid out by driving away and leaving them somewhere. Kick their butt and put them in the car if you must but leaving a child in that manner is hardly responsible.
 
As a cop you're pretty limited in what you can do if you get called to something like this. Families sue the **** out of police departments all the time because cops fail to take "proper" action when responding to domestic disputes. That's why people generally get locked up once that call is made. They're covering their *** for one thing. For another, I don't care how safe the neighborhood is, if something were to have happened to that kid then you have a much bigger issue on your hands.

If people can't learn to collect themself to prevent this type of behavior from occurring, then they need to seek help or not have kids
 
The cops also call it assault if you grab somebody's arm. Not justifying what the dad did, just think the cops are once again getting into a grey area. But, I'd like to know more info. It's difficult to call from behind this desk.
 
If it had been a teacher or baby sitter who reacted similarly would that be fine too?

"Hi Mr Smith. I left junior at the McDonald's because he was acting up. I'll go pick him up in a little bit."
 
I'll say that it depends on a very simple, but vital question:

Did the child know where he was?

Did the parent leave the kid with the admonishment to "Walk home", or was it, "Fine, then I'm abandoning you!"?

One is a reasonable punishment. The other is utterly cruel.

Vastly different.






smokin.gif
 
I will be honest and admit I felt like doing that when the kid was being a super *******. I felt like doing it but you cannot do it in today's society. There are too many weirdos and whackos who would love to swoop down on an abandoned child.

That is why you ground your kiid and remove the TV, stereo, wii or whatever game center, and phone. There are better ways to handle this even when the kid has pushed well over your limit.
 
The guy was so angry that he bumped his kid with his car as he fled the situation so he could have a tantrum in private. I don't spite him for leaving the situation, clearly he had already lost control of himself, and I don't think it is negligent to leave your 11 year old at a McDs unattended. The car thing is hard to ignore, however. It is one thing to make an exit, it is another thing to be so desperate to leave that you bump your child with a reversing car. I think the folks at McDs where right to call the cops, I think the cops were right to file (and drop) charges. I think this is a bad situation which resolved just about as well as it could have. You lose it in public like that, you shouldn't be surprised if the public gets involved... it sucks, but that is how it is.
 
if you find yourself arguing with an 11 year old, you've already lost the argument. never argue with a child. never power struggle with a child. if you do either, the kid has won.
 
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