A/C unit: outside unit won't stop

O

orangecat

1,000+ Posts
so I was opening all of the windows last night, because in the metroplex it was a cool rainy evening coming on, and I waited for a while, realized outside unit wasn't turning off. I gave it approx. 30 minutes or so, air coming out of outside unit was cool, turned off breaker. Gave it about 30 minutes or so, hoping unit would "forget" it was on, turned breaker back on, unit came back on.


So, I will have the warranty company come out. But a question

1. other than the high electric bill, what are the chances of damage?
 
I had that happen once. Relay on the compressor was stuck closed. Replaced it myself for probably $15. No damage.
 
The contactor (or relay) is closed. It is a $30 fix.
There is no harm in it running, you could shut the breaker off if you dont want it to run non-stop.
 
more information, the opposite occurred in the summer. It wouldn't come on. It appeared to be an easy thing for the A/C man, he replaced some small part, said he does this hundreds of times. So I'm wondering, did he install the part incorrectly? Who knows, we might get the same guy out this time. Any questions I should ask him?
 
Just guessing, but it's possible he replaced the relay with one that's not rated for as much current as it needed to be, hence the early failure. Techs will often use whatever they have in the truck even if it's not exactly the right part. If it's the relay again I'd make sure it gets replaced with the OEM part or an equivalent and not necessarily another one like what's in there now. And I'd find a new AC tech if he indeed substituted an inferior part last summer. BTW, this is all speculation.
 
Make sure you ask for the part that was taken out. Then watch them put in the new relay and ask him what is the amperage of the new relay. You can even ask him what was wrong with the old relay after he is done replacing it. Then call your home warranty company and make sure that they comp the visit after telling them that it cost you an extra $200 because they used the wrong part on the previous call.
 
If that is the double contact switch, ants like to get in there and can ruin it. Use ant bait around your outside compressor unit. Could be the problem.
 
Here I go again. same deal. turned on A/C for the first time the other day, outside unit stays on. I turn off the breaker, this time I wait a few days turn the breaker back on, tonight turned the A/C on, waited, inside unit turned off, outside unit stayed on.

This time I tried something a little different. After the inside unit was off, I turned the thermostat from "cool" to 'off', and the outside unit stopped running.

keep in mind we always keep the unit in the 'cool' and 'auto' position, or the 'heat' and 'auto' position

Now, I'm going to try turning the inside unit back to "cool" and see if I can get it to turn off, by raising the thermostat.
 
holy Sh*t, I'm a f*&^ing genius, it worked. I haven't heard that sound in a long time. that sound as in the sound of complete quiet coming from the inside unit. (and the outside unit is off, too!)

Before just now, when the inside would shut off, I would hear a faint hissing noise coming from the inside, but I don't know for sure if the outside unit was on the entire time, I'm thinking it wasn't. Now one thing I haven't mentioned is that this is one unit, with two zones, upstairs and downstairs.

Now, I think I know what happened. The man I had install that new inside unit screwed something up.

I asked him when he was putting that control panel in about putting it in upside down and he said it doesn't matter. I don't know if that is it or not, but if this thing is just now working properly, I've saved myself several hundred bucks, easily.

I'm not going back to that man's company. He's dead, and I don't even know if they kept the company going or not. It was a small business.

I wish I knew someone I could trust to come look at this control panel, specifically. that one dot is red, has been ever since the new unit was put in, but I don't remember if it was red with the old unit.
 
new inside unit was put on in June, 2008. Now, I need to go back and look at electric bills again. Before the warranty expired, I did have the A/C man come out, and I told him about the electric bills being much higher than before, showed him usage, he looked at unit, couldn't find anything. I'm pretty sure he was already sick by the time he came to look at the unit. I sure didn't know he was dying.
 
and here are some samples of the electric bills: (I've had the same rate, 12.9 for the past three years)

1/18/08 $384
1/20/09 $580
5/16/08 $181
5/20/09 $248
9/17/07 $346
9/17/08 $466

check out this recent bill

1/22/10 $677, comparing that to the most recent winter bill with the old unit, $384, looks like at least the inside or the outside was on the entire time.


okay so that's almost $400 I have probably saved my self over the next three months, IF that is the problem. It sure looks like it is.
 
Some thermostats have various features like pressing a button to show you if the fan is on high, medium or low, if it is on heat, what the humidity is, etc. Maybe you could get a different thermostat that would have some of this information, that would be compatible with your system.
 
that sounds like a good idea. I think at one point we looked into the idea of a programmable thermostat, and some expert told me it wouldn't work because of the slave/master system with the two zones.

I wonder if this two-zone system is outdated, or a pain or what the deal is. I do know there are far more two-unit systems in our neighborhood than the kind we have.

I always thought our system would be better because the A/C guys always charge more to do a tune-up on two systems compared to one, but maybe this is a royal pain.

Btw, square footage for the home, 2720 s.f., but was listed when bought home at 2306 s.f., don't know if we're right on the border for two-zone system or two-unit system.

now, all this makes me want to call Fox and Jacobs and ask them what their criteria was for two-unit vs. two-zone systems.
 
update! got a great recommendation from our piano teacher. This guy is very good. The outside unit was on when he got here, he quickly asked if our bills were high, I said yes, told him the whole story, he fixed it, didn't need to put a new contact switch in. now here's the big deal.

Evidently the emergency heat has been on for only God knows how long!! I told him I thought it was an installation problem, he said yes.

I'm guessing since probably June 2008. That's when my old A/C man installed the new unit.

That red light that has been on for who knows how long means that the emergency heat is on. He also made a good comment at the end, he told me to watch that control panel, he's not sure if it's good. I asked him if he felt the inside unit was good, he said it should be fine.

New control panel, I can deal with that, if necessary.
 
outside unit is on again. I'm giving it another 15 minutes or so until I turn off the breaker. Then call the new a/c man. just a control panel, I guess.
 
turned thermostat to the 'off' position from cool and five minutes later outside unit stopped. Okay, I just realized I haven't tried this with the downstairs thermostat. Am going to try the thing now. first I will see if the downstairs thermostat works properly, turning the outside unit off, then will see if turning thermostat to 'off' turns off outside unit.
brickwall.gif
 
no dice, outside unit wouldn't turn off even after moving switch to 'off' from cool. hmmm. wouldn't surprise me if we're looking at a new control panel.
 
Is the relay on the outside unit energized? That is, is there 24VAC across the coil? It's not uncommon for these relays to get stuck in the "on" position without power applied to the coil.
 
not sure, I think that might be one of the things he checked when he first arrived. He had his little gauge to check to see what was hot and what wasn't. This was right after he grabbed that hot pipe to feel the actual temperature hot.

I will ask him that when I call. I almost feel like I need a running account of what has been attempted. I do remember talking to this new guy about whether it needed one of those little parts, sensor or something, he said it did not need that.
 
brnt, if this thing were to get stuck in 'on' position, what does that say about last June, 2009, when it wouldn't start? I am guessing it is the same part that keeps failling, or there is something wrong with the installation of the new unit.
 
The relay in the outdoor unit could also fail in the "off" position. If it was replaced with the wrong replacement part or an inferior quality part last summer it could easily fail again, this time in the "on" position. It's a pretty obvious thing to check, but not every technician is competent or properly trained.

I had the same issue several years ago. Didn't have time to debug it, so I called a recommended firm. They sent out a real nice tech and he charged me a couple hundred bucks to "fix" it. He left and I still had the problem. Fed up, I took the time to debug it--about 5 minutes. Replaced the relay for less than $20 and was good to go.
 
yeah, it appears it's hard to find a good A/C man. At least this guy was able to find the heat problem. He even came out Saturday morning.

I'm gonna try for Saturday morning again. my gut feeling is the warranty A/C man was using the cheapest available part, etc.
 
nope, but thanks, live in McKinney, 30 miles north of Dallas. This latest guy appears to really know his stuff, gonna give him another try.

I'm kind of optimistic in these situations. just talked to him, he will be out Saturday afternoon. He's very good with his customer service.
 
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