Roe is dead

Mr. Deez said:
At least he's honest. I think most people on the left, if forced to really deal with the issue rather than obfuscate with falsehoods and diversions would reach the same conclusion. (Of course, they never have to deal with it in public discourse.) They know it's ending a human life. They're just ok with it because they resent the idea of sexual activity having a potentially negative consequence or leading to some kind of responsibility. In their minds if you want "f**k and duck" or "cleave and leave," you should have an absolute right to do that no matter the consequences to anyone - even if a totally innocent human being has to die for it.
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Exactly. With Maher's honest, if revolting, take, at least one can have a frank discussion about the issue.

And at the end of the clip, I LOVE the way he looked at the other two and told them that his take was their take too, because they are also both pro "choice" (as if the baby has any choice whatsoever). Made the both of them uncomfortable as hell, and that's a very good thing.
 
Mr. Deez said:
At least he's honest. I think most people on the left, if forced to really deal with the issue rather than obfuscate with falsehoods and diversions would reach the same conclusion. (Of course, they never have to deal with it in public discourse.) They know it's ending a human life. They're just ok with it because they resent the idea of sexual activity having a potentially negative consequence or leading to some kind of responsibility. In their minds if you want "f**k and duck" or "cleave and leave," you should have an absolute right to do that no matter the consequences to anyone - even if a totally innocent human being has to die for it.
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It seems their entire platform is built upon the idea that actions are exempt from scrutiny. There are some groups of people who cannot be controlled at all, so they gain their vote by enabling their behavior through justification and reward (enabling by compensation). They have cynically thrown in the towel. They know far too many people in this world have zero self-control.

To me, anyone (excluding rape) who has unprotected sex shouldn't get one dime from the American taxpayers. Let's be real about that. And certainly, their abortion should not be taxpayer funded either. This stuff is so basic. But they have blown past all that and have instead substituted shrill, vile arrogance and blame on the adults.

However, it the real world, those poor women who get knocked up are highly likely to be producing future criminals. So as a society, what are we to do about these idiots?
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
Exactly. With Maher's honest, if revolting, take, at least one can have a frank discussion about the issue.

And at the end of the clip, I LOVE the way he looked at the other two and told them that his take was their take too, because they are also both pro "choice" (as if the baby has any choice whatsoever). Made the both of them uncomfortable as hell, and that's a very good thing.
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He made them and his audience uncomfortable.
 
bystander said:
It seems their entire platform is built upon the idea that actions are exempt from scrutiny. There are some groups of people who cannot be controlled at all, so they gain their vote by enabling their behavior through justification and reward (enabling by compensation). They have cynically thrown in the towel. They know far too many people in this world have zero self-control.
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Isn't this what democracy is all about? Give the majority gifts which are taken from the minority.

bystander said:
However, it the real world, those poor women who get knocked up are highly likely to be producing future criminals. So as a society, what are we to do about these idiots?
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I don't get the comment. Are you saying women are not responsible for their actions? You used a passive verb, "get knocked up". Didn't they choose? If so they aren't "poor women". If not, they got raped so your other point comes into play.

Are you supposing we kill the "idiots"? Not sure what is going on here.
 
Monahorns said:
Isn't this what democracy is all about? Give the majority gifts which are taken from the minority.



I don't get the comment. Are you saying women are not responsible for their actions? You used a passive verb, "get knocked up". Didn't they choose? If so they aren't "poor women". If not, they got raped so your other point comes into play.

Are you supposing we kill the "idiots"? Not sure what is going on here.
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By poor, I meant, in poverty. Unable to be there as a parent and the Dad is long gone. And yes, I'm saying they CHOSE to have unprotected sex.
 
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gotta love Republicans

"The Arizona House on Wednesday narrowly voted to repeal a near-total abortion ban dating from 1864.

The 32-28 vote came after passionate speeches from Republicans, describing in graphic detail the abortion process as they argued for a no vote.

But with Republicans Matt Gress of Phoenix, Justin Wilmeth of Phoenix and Tim Dunn of Yuma joining with all 29 Democrats, House Bill 2677 passed."

Arizona abortion ban: House approves 1864 law repeal
 
guy4321 said:
gotta love Republicans

"The Arizona House on Wednesday narrowly voted to repeal a near-total abortion ban dating from 1864.

The 32-28 vote came after passionate speeches from Republicans, describing in graphic detail the abortion process as they argued for a no vote.

But with Republicans Matt Gress of Phoenix, Justin Wilmeth of Phoenix and Tim Dunn of Yuma joining with all 29 Democrats, House Bill 2677 passed."

Arizona abortion ban: House approves 1864 law repeal
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Stupid. They should have repealed overwhelmingly and stuck by the the less restrictive ban they passed previously.
 
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bystander said:
Trump said there was universal agreement on both sides that Roe v Wade should be killed or repealed. He was referring to the time frame in which it happened. I believe that is definitely a false statement.
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Who is “he”, which “time frame” are you referring to, and what is “that” statement are you referring to?
 
mchammer said:
Who is “he”, which “time frame” are you referring to, and what is “that” statement are you referring to?
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He is Trump.

He was referring to at the time of Roe v Wade and then he said "... everybody wanted..." when it was repealed.

Here is the statement:

 
bystander said:
He is Trump.

He was referring to at the time of Roe v Wade and then he said "... everybody wanted..." when it was repealed.

Here is the statement:

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I'll never believe there was universal condemnation of Roe v Wade. No way. Not then and not now. Biden is probably much more of a Liberal now than when he said what he said in the video.
 
bystander said:
I'll never believe there was universal condemnation of Roe v Wade. No way. Not then and not now. Biden is probably much more of a Liberal now than when he said what he said in the video.
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Over time people thought Roe v Wade took on the patina of precedence. They were wrong and it doesn’t discount Trump’s point.
 
bystander said:
I'll never believe there was universal condemnation of Roe v Wade. No way. Not then and not now. Biden is probably much more of a Liberal now than when he said what he said in the video.
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This is one of these times where if you take Trump literally, he was clearly wrong. There was never universal or even close to universal condemnation of Roe v. Wade, and it was totally false to say everybody wanted the issue returned to the states. Left-wing legal scholars, virtually the entire media, and probably 80 percent of Democratic officials were quite happy to keep the issue as a judicial one. And until very recently, obviously a majority of the Supreme Court agreed with that.

Does that mean Roe had no scholarly critics? Of course not. Ruth Bader Ginsburg and some others were critical of Roe. However, it wasn't because she thought the issue should be decided at the state level. It was because she thought it should have relied upon equal protection grounds, which she viewed as a stronger argument. (Lawyers and judges know the substantive due process is a horse **** doctrine that's relied upon only when you don't have any other tools in your shed. It's the "because I said so" doctrine.)
 
Mr. Deez said:
This is one of these times where if you take Trump literally, he was clearly wrong. There was never universal or even close to universal condemnation of Roe v. Wade, and it was totally false to say everybody wanted the issue returned to the states. Left-wing legal scholars, virtually the entire media, and probably 80 percent of Democratic officials were quite happy to keep the issue as a judicial one. And until very recently, obviously a majority of the Supreme Court agreed with that.

Does that mean Roe had no scholarly critics? Of course not. Ruth Bader Ginsburg and some others were critical of Roe. However, it wasn't because she thought the issue should be decided at the state level. It was because she thought it should have relied upon equal protection grounds, which she viewed as a stronger argument. (Lawyers and judges know the substantive due process is a horse **** doctrine that's relied upon only when you don't have any other tools in your shed. It's the "because I said so" doctrine.)
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So, given all that, why does Trump say these things? Is he delusional? Is he so cynical that he believes we'll believe him? It's ridiculous. He should just say he agreed with the repeal and why. Just be straight with people.

My old boss used to say that a pathological liar would rather climb a tree and tell a lie than to stand on the ground and tell the truth. It's as if the lie is the world they either need or want to live in and they can't help themselves. Like a disease. Does that mean we should be understanding just like we're supposed to be understanding of an alcoholic? No. It doesn't mean that at all. I just can't believe we are still unsure as to whether or not he can defeat Biden. The moderates/independents are being forced to deal with these idiotic comments when the truth would crush Biden and Liberalism. It drives me nuts.
 
bystander said:
So, given all that, why does Trump say these things? Is he delusional? Is he so cynical that he believes we'll believe him? It's ridiculous. He should just say he agreed with the repeal and why. Just be straight with people.

My old boss used to say that a pathological liar would rather climb a tree and tell a lie than to stand on the ground and tell the truth. It's as if the lie is the world they either need or want to live in and they can't help themselves. Like a disease. Does that mean we should be understanding just like we're supposed to be understanding of an alcoholic? No. It doesn't mean that at all. I just can't believe we are still unsure as to whether or not he can defeat Biden. The moderates/independents are being forced to deal with these idiotic comments when the truth would crush Biden and Liberalism. It drives me nuts.
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He’s selling it because he knows that some percentage of low information voters are going to believe the Dems that Trump took abortion away. He truthfully says that he did not - it was given back to the states to settle. He then adds a sales slogan on top of that (everyone agreed with the concept).
 
Note the difference between Trump and Biden:
  • Trump lies to sell an idea.
  • Biden lies to hide an embarrassing fact about him or his party.
 
By,

You are aware that you are top 1-3% in intelligence, right? Trump ain’t speaking to you. With Trump, don’t worry how he sells it, but worry if he is hitting the right targets. @NJlonghorn had a post about easy targets that Trump missed.
 
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bystander said:
So, given all that, why does Trump say these things? Is he delusional? Is he so cynical that he believes we'll believe him? It's ridiculous. He should just say he agreed with the repeal and why. Just be straight with people.

My old boss used to say that a pathological liar would rather climb a tree and tell a lie than to stand on the ground and tell the truth. It's as if the lie is the world they either need or want to live in and they can't help themselves. Like a disease. Does that mean we should be understanding just like we're supposed to be understanding of an alcoholic? No. It doesn't mean that at all. I just can't believe we are still unsure as to whether or not he can defeat Biden. The moderates/independents are being forced to deal with these idiotic comments when the truth would crush Biden and Liberalism. It drives me nuts.
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I think it's a combination of things. First, he's not particularly well-versed on policy, so on a lot of these nuances, he's simply ignorant. He has policy people around him who aren't, but how often are they actively correcting him? Probably not often.

Second, he's a salesman, not a principled ideologue, so being totally right on something isn't a high priority. Making the sale is. So if he has to BS a little, that's ok in his mind. I think he assumes that the moderate, low-information voter largely won't know he wasn't right, and he knows that his supporters will let it slide because they believe he's right on the broader point.
 
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Mr. Deez said:
I think it's a combination of things. First, he's not particularly well-versed on policy, so on a lot of these nuances, he's simply ignorant. He has policy people around him who aren't, but how often are actively correcting him? Probably not often.

Second, he's a salesman, not a principled ideologue, so being totally right on something isn't a high priority. Making the sale is. So if he has to BS a little, that's ok in his mind. I think he assumes that the moderate, low-information voter largely won't know he wasn't right, and he knows that his supporters will let it slide because they believe he's right on the broader point.
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I agree it’s annoying. A little would be fine but he goes too far. Same with the disparaging remarks (though the other side says worse). Regardless, he is acting much better in 2024 vs 2016/2020.
 
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Mr. Deez said:
I think it's a combination of things. First, he's not particularly well-versed on policy, so on a lot of these nuances, he's simply ignorant. He has policy people around him who aren't, but how often are they actively correcting him? Probably not often.

Second, he's a salesman, not a principled ideologue, so being totally right on something isn't a high priority. Making the sale is. So if he has to BS a little, that's ok in his mind. I think he assumes that the moderate, low-information voter largely won't know he wasn't right, and he knows that his supporters will let it slide because they believe he's right on the broader point.
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As opposed to saying, the Border Patrol endorsed me which is a complete lie and doesn't support any broader point.

In my personal life, and on here, I try my best to be logical and not say things like, "So and so agrees with me." If I'm sound in my reasoning, I don't need the help or the credibility of someone smarter than me. For him to say what he said about everyone being in favor of it smacks of insecurity.
 
I know this thread is about Roe v Wade, but we're talking about Trump's style now and Biden's impairment. Here are the comments of a long-time (45 years) friend of mine from Laredo. He is a born and raised in Laredo Latino:

upload_2024-7-1_9-37-21.png


What do y'all think of that? I'm thinking he is referring to the phone calls made to the Georgia Sec of State and Jan 6th. There are people in good faith (my friend) who truly believe Trump was trying to over-turn the election (and constantly saying, "Stop the steal").
 
by
Does your friend think Trump was in it for his ego in his first term? What does his ego have to do with for instance getting NATO Countries to start paying their share or how about every minority group including Latinos having lowest unemployment in decades AND highest start ups if minority businesses , Did Trump's ego work to close our border from the scum we see flooding in. Was your friend pleased when we were energy independent? Could go on and on
Is your friend's life and econ better now under Biden?
Sorry but your friend sounds like a clueless person who is regurgitating Demx points . Did you ask him about Trump's first term?
 
bystander said:
I know this thread is about Roe v Wade, but we're talking about Trump's style now and Biden's impairment. Here are the comments of a long-time (45 years) friend of mine from Laredo. He is a born and raised in Laredo Latino:

View attachment 9984

What do y'all think of that? I'm thinking he is referring to the phone calls made to the Georgia Sec of State and Jan 6th. There are people in good faith (my friend) who truly believe Trump was trying to over-turn the election (and constantly saying, "Stop the steal").
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3 points:
- the Georgia call was to find the illegal votes to be discarded, not to find new votes. Big difference.
- despite Trump’s opinion on election fraud, the system still worked.
- tell your friend he is in a bubble and other folks don’t see it the way he sees it. Tell him he is being brainwashed.
 
Ok, to date, we have two votes for "He's an ignorant slut."! Ha...

He gets worked up. Like many Liberals. The thing is, I know he's Catholic. And I know he's not a big fan of open borders. He's decided that Trump's character is awful and he has no business in the Oval Office.
 
bystander said:
Ok, to date, we have two votes for "He's an ignorant slut."! Ha...

He gets worked up. Like many Liberals. The thing is, I know he's Catholic. And I know he's not a big fan of open borders. He's decided that Trump's character is awful and he has no business in the Oval Office.
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Tell him to vote for RFK, jr then.
 
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